The lap of luxury: Redefining 'personal' cars in the land of Lincoln

[jcthorne]

This idea that size must = price range has got to go.

 

There is no reason MKZ and MKS cannot have ALOT of overlap in price range. They are very different products for different buyers. Both should be able to be optioned and outfitted on a 'personal' basis. IE the way the buyer wants. MKZ does not have to be above or below MKS. They can be even and for different market segments. Not based on price. One does not move from MKZ to MKS depending on budget.

 

Is an MKX above or below an MKT? Is a Flex above or below and Edge? Neither.

[FordBuyer]

I'm chiefly concerned with Lincoln's CUV efforts, I would like to see something from them on the MKEscape or MKExplorer, they need to get moving on those. Personally, I'm not that interested in what Lincoln is doing with cars, although I'm sure the MKZ will be nice. If I'm buying a luxury car, for me it has to be a SUV/CUV and Lincoln's only viable entry is the MKX.

 

I believe that Ford has already stated that a new Lincoln product will be coming out of recently retooled LAP. I doubt if we will see finished product before next year's L.A. Auto Show. I would imagine Ford is focused on 2013 critical launch of Escape for now and then MKEscape later in 2012 or early 2013. I see it looking somewhat like LR Evoque. If Hyundai/Kia can copy Ford, then why not Ford copying company it used to own. LR is not even coming to NAIAS, so Lincoln can copy them and then produce it for better price.

[atvman]

"Personal Luxury Car" was the term for Mark II and III, and the 58-66 T-Bird.........maybe a nod to that?

The first thought that came to my mind was the Mark series. I'd love to see it come out as the Mark X and sit on a RWD chassis with 5.0L under the hood. With one of Lincoln's underrated interiors and some eye popping style, it could be the "gotta have it" product that Lincoln needs.

Edited December 22, 2011 by atvman

[atvman]

This idea that size must = price range has got to go.

 

There is no reason MKZ and MKS cannot have ALOT of overlap in price range. They are very different products for different buyers. Both should be able to be optioned and outfitted on a 'personal' basis. IE the way the buyer wants. MKZ does not have to be above or below MKS. They can be even and for different market segments. Not based on price. One does not move from MKZ to MKS depending on budget.

 

Is an MKX above or below an MKT? Is a Flex above or below and Edge? Neither.

I agree. This isn't a Ford being compared to a Lincoln, it's a Lincoln being compared to a Lincoln. An MKZ should be able to be optioned up the way you'd expect a luxury car to be optioned up. If that causes some price overlap with the MKS, then so be it.

 

The way Ford should be looking at it is that if somebody chooses a "low" content MKS over a loaded MKZ (or vice versa), they're still buying a high margin Lincoln.

[atvman]

I would be surprised if Lincoln shows us a two-door anything.

The Evos was a two-door, and I don't expect a 2-door Ford (other than the Mustang) any time soon. Remember that this is a concept, and concepts need to look good. Typically, coupes are more eye catching than sedans, which is why they make sense as concepts.

[akirby]

I agree. This isn't a Ford being compared to a Lincoln, it's a Lincoln being compared to a Lincoln. An MKZ should be able to be optioned up the way you'd expect a luxury car to be optioned up. If that causes some price overlap with the MKS, then so be it.

 

The way Ford should be looking at it is that if somebody chooses a "low" content MKS over a loaded MKZ (or vice versa), they're still buying a high margin Lincoln.

 

Exactly. I'm certain you can get an optioned AMG C class or M3 that costs way more than a base E class or 5 series. Same with the AMG E and M5 over a base S class or 7 series.

[atvman]

Exactly. I'm certain you can get an optioned AMG C class or M3 that costs way more than a base E class or 5 series. Same with the AMG E and M5 over a base S class or 7 series.

Even non-M and non-AMG models encroach on their larger siblings. The 5-Series starts at around $50K, a number that an optioned up 335i can easily pass.

[stpatrick90]

Even non-M and non-AMG models encroach on their larger siblings. The 5-Series starts at around $50K, a number that an optioned up 335i can easily pass.

 

I certainly agree that overlap is inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing at all. However the assertion that the MKZ should start at $40k base is a bit much. For instance a BMW 328i starts at $35k, MB C250 $35k, Audi A4 $33k, Lexus IS $34k and Lexus ES $37k. I think it would be a bit optimistic for Lincoln to assume that it can start that much higher than these cars. That is not to say that a high end MKZ can't eclipse $50k either.

[akirby]

I certainly agree that overlap is inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing at all. However the assertion that the MKZ should start at $40k base is a bit much. For instance a BMW 328i starts at $35k, MB C250 $35k, Audi A4 $33k, Lexus IS $34k and Lexus ES $37k. I think it would be a bit optimistic for Lincoln to assume that it can start that much higher than these cars. That is not to say that a high end MKZ can't eclipse $50k either.

 

The MKZ is E class, 5 series, A6 sized.

[NickF1011]

The MKZ is E class, 5 series, A6 sized.

 

It also comes standard with things like a 250+ HP engine and leather that many of those cheap "entry" vehicles from BMW and the like do not.

[stpatrick90]

The MKZ is E class, 5 series, A6 sized.

 

I certainly understand that however historically the MKZ hasn't been compared to them nor do I see them comparing it to those cars in the future. The fact of the matter is that the MKZ is going to remain the entry level car for Lincoln and pricing it above the competitions entry level pricing would probably be counter-productive for Lincoln. Lincoln has to be able to draw in customers to start buying their cars and you don't do that with a lineup that all starts at $40k.

[stpatrick90]

It also comes standard with things like a 250+ HP engine and leather that many of those cheap "entry" vehicles from BMW and the like do not.

 

You are buying the Badge when you buy the entry level BMW/Audi/MB. They can get away this but Lincoln can't. Maybe sometime far down the road Lincoln can.

[NickF1011]

You are buying the Badge when you buy the entry level BMW/Audi/MB. They can get away this but Lincoln can't. Maybe sometime far down the road Lincoln can.

 

Yes. You are buying the badge with the BMW/Audi/MB. You are buying content with the Lincoln, so they can and will charge more. The badge is the only reason the others can get away with such a cheap, optionless vehicle.

[stpatrick90]

Yes. You are buying the badge with the BMW/Audi/MB. You are buying content with the Lincoln, so they can and will charge more. The badge is the only reason the others can get away with such a cheap, optionless vehicle.

 

Do you really think Lincoln can get away with selling a car that is more expensive than the established marques even if it has more content? I think that they will eventually be able to do that but they first have to reestablish their image and get people into their showrooms.

[NickF1011]

Do you really think Lincoln can get away with selling a car that is more expensive than the established marques even if it has more content? I think that they will eventually be able to do that but they first have to reestablish their image and get people into their showrooms.

 

They are already pretty darned close to it.

[stpatrick90]

They are already pretty darned close to it.

 

Their sales really reflect that....and before you say sales aren't everything they certainly are important to an extent. We have to remember that even once Lincoln reduces its number of dealerships that it will still have more than the average luxury brand which means it will need to have a sales volume that is sufficient to carry those dealerships. Like I said I don't doubt that Lincoln can rebuild its tarnished image to the extent that it can charge a healthy premium for its cars. However I do feel that it is going to take time to get there and that the MKZ that will debut next year will be the first step of many towards that goal.

[jpd80]

Do you really think Lincoln can get away with selling a car that is more expensive than the established marques even if it has more content? I think that they will eventually be able to do that but they first have to reestablish their image and get people into their showrooms.

While I agree that Lincoln cannot match the snob value of European luxury marques, it's equally true that the market is very forgiving

and all Lincoln has to do is make vehicles the market likes and wants to buy. I think the results from a well designed and attractive

vehicle will show that like Lexus, significant numbers of luxury buyers will take your product seriously if it embodies all their wants.

[NickF1011]

Their sales really reflect that....and before you say sales aren't everything they certainly are important to an extent. We have to remember that even once Lincoln reduces its number of dealerships that it will still have more than the average luxury brand which means it will need to have a sales volume that is sufficient to carry those dealerships. Like I said I don't doubt that Lincoln can rebuild its tarnished image to the extent that it can charge a healthy premium for its cars. However I do feel that it is going to take time to get there and that the MKZ that will debut next year will be the first step of many towards that goal.

 

Lincoln's sales are already middle-of-the-road in the segments they actually compete in, so that argument doesn't make any sense either.

[stpatrick90]

Lincoln's sales are already middle-of-the-road in the segments they actually compete in,so that argument doesn't make any sense either.

 

I disagree. None of Lincoln's sales are really middle of the road save for the MKT which only has two true competitors.

 

 

*The GS is in the process of rolling out a new model so it sales were rather weak last month.

Please note that I made this chart quickly and that some of the classifications are a bit of a mess. Also I compared the MKZ to entry level cars such as the 3 Series, C Class, etc because the have similar starting prices and I also compared the MKZ to cars that occupy the same size class as it such as the 5 Series, E Class, etc. I don't feel the MKS really compares to cars like the A8, 7 Series, S Class and the like but I included their numbers in there as well.

Edited December 22, 2011 by stpatrick90

[FordBuyer]

Their sales really reflect that....and before you say sales aren't everything they certainly are important to an extent. We have to remember that even once Lincoln reduces its number of dealerships that it will still have more than the average luxury brand which means it will need to have a sales volume that is sufficient to carry those dealerships. Like I said I don't doubt that Lincoln can rebuild its tarnished image to the extent that it can charge a healthy premium for its cars. However I do feel that it is going to take time to get there and that the MKZ that will debut next year will be the first step of many towards that goal.

 

 

Here is one thing Lincoln dealerships can do and Ford dealers for that matter. Fred Lavery Audi/Porsche/LR where I get my Boxster serviced sends me monthly newsletter via EMail and service special coupons that I can print and use. I have bought three new Fords at Bill Brown Ford over the last 15 years and get nothing from dealeship other than a brochue in mail every 6 months or so about lease deals. The other local Ford dealer I use to service my Taurus NEVER has special service deals. They will match Quick Lane specials, but last couple years their deals are very sketchy. Kind of sad that you can get Audi serviced cheaper than Ford nowadays on basic annual services. Ford and Lincoln especially dealerships need to TRY harder.

[stpatrick90]

Here is one thing Lincoln dealerships can do and Ford dealers for that matter. Fred Lavery Audi/Porsche/LR where I get my Boxster serviced sends me monthly newsletter via EMail and service special coupons that I can print and use. I have bought three new Fords at Bill Brown Ford over the last 15 years and get nothing from dealeship other than a brochue in mail every 6 months or so about lease deals. The other local Ford dealer I use to service my Taurus NEVER has special service deals. They will match Quick Lane specials, but last couple years their deals are very sketchy. Kind of sad that you can get Audi serviced cheaper than Ford nowadays on basic annual services. Ford and Lincoln especially dealerships need to TRY harder.

 

My S6 has complimentary service so I don't really recall the price of a regular service such as an oil change, I will have to inquire the next time I get it serviced. The S6 is the only car that I get serviced always by a professional whereas in the summer and fall with my other cars I usually do my own oil changes and such. However in the winter when it is too cold for me to tinker around doing oil changes I get them done at the service center at the dealership that I bought them from and I usually get a good offers in the mail such as $29.95 for the works (which is an oil change, tire rotation and inspection).

[akirby]

Yes, in order to maximize volume Lincoln needs to keep prices down. However - Ford is no longer in the game for volume, they're in the game for profits and world class vehicles. The people who won't pay the same price for a Lincoln as a similarly equipped import probably won't buy a Lincoln in the first place.

 

Lincolns should be price competitive with cars of the same class from other mfrs.

[RichardJensen]

 

I disagree. None of Lincoln's sales are really middle of the road save for the MKT which only has two true competitors.

You left off Acura & Volvo.

[Deanh]

Here is one thing Lincoln dealerships can do and Ford dealers for that matter. Fred Lavery Audi/Porsche/LR where I get my Boxster serviced sends me monthly newsletter via EMail and service special coupons that I can print and use. I have bought three new Fords at Bill Brown Ford over the last 15 years and get nothing from dealeship other than a brochue in mail every 6 months or so about lease deals. The other local Ford dealer I use to service my Taurus NEVER has special service deals. They will match Quick Lane specials, but last couple years their deals are very sketchy. Kind of sad that you can get Audi serviced cheaper than Ford nowadays on basic annual services. Ford and Lincoln especially dealerships need to TRY harder.

me, my dad, my stepson, stepdaughter and girlfriend get service special mailers all the time, ironically from several different Ford dealerships...

[stpatrick90]

You left off Acura & Volvo.

 

 

 

Here you and it doesn't change the fact that Lincoln sales don't measure up. I understand Lincoln doesn't need to chase volume but there has to be some viability for dealerships also.