The lap of luxury: Redefining 'personal' cars in the land of Lincoln

[RichardJensen]

The quickest way to Kill Lincoln is to spend too much on a hope and a prayer that flops.

Bingo.

[jpd80]

The quickest way to Kill Lincoln is to spend too much on a hope and a prayer that flops. If you want Lincoln to survive, you have to do be patient; persistence pays off eventually. And keep in mind Lincoln has to fund its own products, Ford doesn't care about building a RWD sedan just so Lincoln can use it. If Lincoln wants a RWD sedan, it will have to fund its own...and Lincoln can't afford it. It's like anything else, if you want it badly enough, you'll work long and hard to get it.

MKR concept was built on the exact track and wheelbase of the current Falcon but Ford swears blind that's a complete coincidence.

They say it was based on Mustang D2C platform when we know that floor pan does not support a sedan design and that Ford actually

fudged the concept by reusing a DEW floor pan, suspension and a cobbled up supercharged version of a Cologne to look like a Duratec V6.

 

Oh we wish we could afford a decent platform but we will throw this concept out there and see what comes back, no wonder Mulally was miffed,

Ford NA was holding nothing in its hand...meanwhile the best possible chance, Falcon is so cash starved that it can't get a seat at the table..

With Ford NA's assistance and resources, the Falcon platform could be transformed and worthy of a Lincoln derivative, all they need is a chance.

Edited December 31, 2011 by jpd80

[Kris Kolman]

I am a big fan of the Falcon... Have been "down under" and driven an older version around for a couple weeks (from Sydney up to Coff's Harbour and back down thru Hunter Valley). I loved it and noticed the cars and roadways were much more American than European. But I do have concerns hitching such an important product for Lincoln's future to something doing so poorly in its home market. The 30%+ reduction in Falcon sales compared to last year of serious concern, but what is even more concerning is that the entire large car market in Australia dropping 20%+. One can blame the Falcon sales problems on a bad rollout and late availability of the LPG and EB4 engines. But how does one explain the entire segment? Until the Falcon and large car market segment stabilizes in Australia I wouldn't be hitching Lincoln up for that ride. Risk is too great because Lincoln doesn't have many if any mulligan’s left in it... When one is trying to avoid closing shop one needs to take care of the immediate problems before planning for the future. For Lincoln that means working thru the dealer dysfunction partially left in place due to the cancellation of Mercury. It also means focusing on the near term product rollouts: (1) new MKFocus and MKEscape are due soon, (2) MKZ and MKX will change over to EUCD, (3) need to develop a large SUV plan (Navigator, MKT, MKExplorer). The MKS decision can wait, and it’s not like it is a complete sales flop in the market... Sells at comparable rates as the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.

 

Note: Looking at the sales trends I’m almost inclined to say Lincoln should not focus on a RWD large sedan, that the success of the Audi A6 and failure of the Cadillac STS indicates that isn’t important for that segment. But compact luxury car buyers are much more selective… So how about instead something in the mold of the Infiniti G platform? G platform is the basis for the G-sedan, G-coupe and convertible, along 370Z coupe and convertible. A compact RWD platform might be have as many applications while targeting the part of the market segment that is more concerned about RWD. This is what I mean be open thinking… Perhaps the idea has merit but the focus of change isn’t…

[jpd80]

I am a big fan of the Falcon... Have been "down under" and driven an older version around for a couple weeks (from Sydney up to Coff's Harbour and back down thru Hunter Valley). I loved it and noticed the cars and roadways were much more American than European. But I do have concerns hitching such an important product for Lincoln's future to something doing so poorly in its home market. The 30%+ reduction in Falcon sales compared to last year of serious concern, but what is even more concerning is that the entire large car market in Australia dropping 20%+. One can blame the Falcon sales problems on a bad rollout and late availability of the LPG and EB4 engines. But how does one explain the entire segment?

Ah but FoA also has Territory, the turnaround there has been nothing but spectacular, combined Falcon/territory monthly production

is roughly 4,400 but unlike America, base Falcon and Territory start north of $37,000 with ATPs now more like $45,000 - $48,000

thanks to the popularity of the diesel Territory. I'll grant you that FoA clearly wants increased falcon sales and delivering the upgraded

series 2 upgrades just before the Christmas break has enabled them to just about eliminate all 2011 series 1 stock, there's practically

no 2011 inventory left....so that sets Ford up well for the very light January and February months. ( Holden is flooded with excess vehicles..GM?)

 

Until the Falcon and large car market segment stabilizes in Australia I wouldn't be hitching Lincoln up for that ride. Risk is too great because Lincoln doesn't have many if any mulligan's left in it...

You're looking at the now instead of the future, FoA is drought proofing Falcon for higher fuel prices and that will pay big dividends as our

local SAAR is expected to grow from 1 million vehicles to 1.2 million vehicles in the next five years, just in time for the next product cycle.

In that time FoA will be filling it's show room with imported products filling some glaring and perplexing vacancies, adding precious income'

and sales volume, in short doing all the things it should for increasing income whilst taking emphasis and pressure off Falcon and Territory.

By doing that, Ford diversifies it buyer demographics and increases foot traffic through showrooms, the knock on effect from that is more

converted sales, people come in thinking tey wan x vehicle and walk out with another...

 

As FoA has approximately 10% of the market, they can expect to pick up another 120,000 sales a year by 2015 and even if Falcon/Territory picks

up another 30,000 to 40,000 of those, that is more than enough to justified continued local production, the Aussie government regularly gives

Ford cash on a 3 to 1 basis to improve the Falcon/territory and keep local production, EcoLPI, Ecoboost and V6 diesel Territory are recent examples..

 

If Ford was to submit a plan for a future Falcon that encompassed fuel efficient engines, it would get a lot of government support,

2012 is an election year and you can bet our government will be wanting every vote it can get.....

 

In closing Kris, be less concerned about Falcon, a decision on the +2015 car is due inside two months, so well will soon see,

I do know that FoA has submitted business case for two vehicles and that review process is basically finalized...

Edited December 31, 2011 by jpd80

[sullynd]

The ES and the RX are the only two FWD based Lexus vehicles.

HS and CT are also FWD.

[Fgts]

FWD is cheaper and has better packaging vs. RWD. That makes it a more economical option for run-of-the-mill products, as evidenced by Toyota and Honda's success in with that layout in quotidian segments.

That makes a cheap ass car with corners cut, the Japanese just did it better with fwd products and a better execution plan. The LTD and Caprice, was the best selling cars in the 83 and 84 with the Cavalier taking over for one year in 85 ( the car was on sale since 82) and the LTD was still a bestseller until the car was killed. My point is bad decisions killed rwd not the market. If people wanted fwd so damn bad the Explorer wouldnt sold well in the 90's .

 

#1 does not explain why the proportion of total Chrysler vehicles changed.

What that means as you know is if the economy screwed up no one won't buy a car rwd or not, with this anti-rwd crap going around we might have a new mob in town (the fwd mafia..) ill inform the proper BON mods about this.............

Btw happy New year!

Edited January 1, 2012 by Fgts

[RichardJensen]

Said it before, I'll say it again. FWD is cheaper and more efficient to build. Nothing you say will make either of these statements false. Thanks for playing.

[RichardJensen]

no one won't buy a car rwd or not

 

That still doesn't explain why the LX cars represent a lower percentage of Chrysler's sales.

[jpd80]

Modern manufacturing of FWd and RWD cars follows a similar process, the shell, doors and fittings are assembled in one part

while the power train is assembled on a cradle and then the cradle is offered up to the shell and the two joined together.

 

 

Ecoboost Falcon is promising similar fuel economy to Mondeo Ecoboost, and even though it is 100 lbs heavier,

it has 3" more shoulder room and 2" more leg room than the mondeo, giving it a great edge over the mid sized car.

 

The Ecoboost Falcon scores a 60 Kg weight reduction due to the new engine and a lighter ZF 6-speed auto transmision,

early testing by journalists two up in the car have netted 0-100 kph in 7.2 to 7.5 seconds which at worst is 0.5 seconds slower

than the 4.0 I-6.

The most exciting part is that the Ecoboost Falcon is a whole second faster 0-100 kph than the Commodore 3.0 SIDI.

Not only does the Commodore get its ass handed to it in performance, the EB Falcon beats it in the all important economy too......Oh dear...:shades:

Edited January 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Fgts]

That still doesn't explain why the LX cars represent a lower percentage of Chrysler's sales.

 

Can you explain why the Avenger, Caliber, Sebring, didn't outsell the LXs during the good days and struggles against them now beside having lower prices, smaller engines and "gods favorite" powertrain configuration (fwd)?. The only fwds that sell constantly decent from Chrysler are the minivans (I would say journey but that's an awd suv).

[jpd80]

Can you explain why the Avenger, Caliber, Sebring, didn't outsell the LXs during the good days and struggles against them now beside having lower prices, smaller engines and "gods favorite" powertrain configuration (fwd)?. The only fwds that sell constantly decent from Chrysler are the minivans (I would say journey but that's an awd suv).

Wow, sounds like a race to the bottom...Is any that due to Chrysler's reputation for poor quality products?

[Edstock]

Can you explain why the Avenger, Caliber, Sebring, didn't outsell the LXs during the good days and struggles against them now beside having lower prices, smaller engines and "gods favorite" powertrain configuration (fwd)?.

 

Let's see now, the Avenger, Caliber and Sebring — and you wonder? Three ho-hum, forgettable designs, with the Caliber and Sebring no longer in production.

[Fgts]

Wow, sounds like a race to the bottom...Is any that due to Chrysler's reputation for poor quality products?

Yes that's the point, bad products have nothing to do with rwd but the fwd mob dont want to hear it ( in a defense those were Benz era cost cutters ,the Avenger/Caliber is being replaced by the Dart and the 200 is going on a midsized Fiat frame soon).

[akirby]

Yes that's the point, bad products have nothing to do with rwd

 

Exactly - and by the same token good products don't have to be RWD.

[RichardJensen]

Can you explain why the Avenger, Caliber, Sebring, didn't outsell the LXs

Simple. They were terrible cars.

 

The LX cars are evidence that RWD is not a viable mainstream powertrain configuration. They did well on novelty, then on fleet volume, and now they're not doing so hot.

 

I would say journey but that's an awd suv

 

And with that, you have lost all claim to rational responses. Until you post something with even a smidgen of sanity to it, you will be greeted by penguins.

 

To illustrate just how silly that statement is, consider:

 

The LX sedans are available in AWD configuration as is every Ford CUV, and the Fusion and the Taurus. Therefore, per your 'logic', none of those cars are FWD or RWD.

Edited January 1, 2012 by RichardJensen

[Fgts]

Simple. They were terrible cars.

 

No, they're fwd that means those are class leading vehicles...........

 

The LX cars are evidence that RWD is not a viable mainstream powertrain configuration. They did well on novelty, then on fleet volume, and now they're not doing so hot.

That means the D3 sedans, the Maxima, LaX, Genesis are freezing in since the Lxs are out selling them, the 300 alone shot up 50% in November, the Impala only outsell the Lx but its a money loser with a replacement coming.

 

 

And with that, you have lost all claim to rational responses. Until you post something with even a smidgen of sanity to it, you will be greeted by penguins.

 

To illustrate just how silly that statement is, consider:

 

The LX sedans are available in AWD configuration as is every Ford CUV, and the Fusion and the Taurus. Therefore, per your 'logic', none of those cars are FWD or RWD.

Now youre making crap up just to make yourself sound good, ok the Journey is fwd but still gets outsold by the Charger what's your point?. Do the Charger need to sale 25000+ a month to be competitive? ( those are RAM numbers). Chrysler may get 10000+ out the Dart and 200 but dont think slightly lower numbers for the Lxs means failure.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Fgts

[twintornados]

No, they're fwd that means those are class leading vehicles...........

 

That means the D3 sedans, the Maxima, LaX, Genesis are freezing in since the Lxs are out selling them, the 300 alone shot up 50% in November, the Impala only outsell the Lx but its a money loser with a replacement coming.

 

 

Now you're making crap up just to make yourself sound good, ok the Journey is fwd but still gets outsold by the Charger what's your point?. Do the Charger need to sale 25000+ a month to be competitive? ( those are RAM numbers). Chrysler may get 10000+ out the Dart and 200 but dont think slightly lower numbers for the Lxs means failure.

[RichardJensen]

No, they're fwd that means those are class leading vehicles...........

[jpd80]

Transferring the AWD Taurus and MKS over to a platform that's 300-400 lbs lighter and more car like would have an enormous effect

on both the cars dynamics, fuel economy and how it generally perceived buy the public. I would rather withold my judgement on new

Lincolns until we start seeing the flow on From new platforms like CD4 Fusion/MKZ/Taurus/MKS and evolution of Edge/MKX.