timmm55 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There were other Hot Rod Lincolns. Certainly the Mark VII LSC 5.0 and the VIII. Supercharged, they were (and are) very fast! http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.com/TascaFordSupermark.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I'm taking a wait and see approach. Lincoln hyped the hell out of the '13 MKS/MKT and we all know how that worked out. As long as the MKZ sees at least as extensive a refresh as the Sebring did when it turned into the 200...it will do fine. Yes because it's on sale and we have months worth of sales figures to make any claims about its impact. Edited January 5, 2012 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) There were other Hot Rod Lincolns. Certainly the Mark VII LSC 5.0 and the VIII. Supercharged, they were (and are) very fast! http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.com/TascaFordSupermark.htm I've always loved the Mark VII LSC. There was a sharp, mint 1988 Mark VII LSC for sale at the Carlisle All-Ford Nationals this past year...if only I had the spare cash, and a place to store the car! Edited January 5, 2012 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 And with that, the ignore list just grew by one. I foresee a much more peaceful experience here on BON. You are an ignorant yumpum. Thanks for playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Reading is hard for you isn't it? School should have restarted this week, I suggest you spend some time after school with your reading teacher: The fact is, because I have such good reading comprehension, it was incredibly simple to read through what you wrote. See, you follow the patterns that a person uses, when they post. Thus, you can determine if a post is more of the same, or an anomaly and possible mistake. Man up!!!! You said something incredibly stupid and got called out on it. Now you are backtracking and trying to save face with the "I made a typo/mistake." It is BS and you and everyone else here knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Let's move on, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Let's move on, folks. Lincoln's NAIAS Press Event is Tuesday. Does anybody know when the embargo ends? Sunday or Monday at midnight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Lincoln's NAIAS Press Event is Tuesday. Does anybody know when the embargo ends? Sunday or Monday at midnight? The embargo ends at 0:01 on the day of a formal press announcement, so Monday night is a safe assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've always loved the Mark VII LSC. There was a sharp, mint 1988 Mark VII LSC for sale at the Carlisle All-Ford Nationals this past year...if only I had the spare cash, and a place to store the car! The guy who did the work on my '64 1/2 is a big LSC fan. He's owned several which he converted to 5 speed manual. Since the LSC is a Fox Body, all the parts fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The guy who did the work on my '64 1/2 is a big LSC fan. He's owned several which he converted to 5 speed manual. Since the LSC is a Fox Body, all the parts fit. Shhhhh — one of the negatards will call it badge engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Shhhhh — one of the negatards will call it badge engineering. Not using the 5.0/4.6 engines killed the LS and Thunderbird IMHO. Imagine the T-Bird with a SC 4.6! Or a new LS with a SC 5.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Not using the 5.0/4.6 engines killed the LS and Thunderbird IMHO. Imagine the T-Bird with a SC 4.6! Or a new LS with a SC 5.0 That was a big part of it IMO. The 4.6 would fit in the bay but it couldn't be installed from the bottom due to one of the aluminum suspension pieces therefore not feasible for assembly line. The AJV8 was super smooth but expensive and limited. Incidentally - there were at least 2 LS with the 4.6L engine. One was a test mule at the Ford test track and the other was built by a bunch of Ford engineers to compete in the Car and Driver One Lap of America competition in 2004-ish. It had a Roush supercharged 4.6L. Interesting side note: When was the last time you tried putting a car on your expense report? Hey, it worked for these guys—Chet Dhruna (left), Jamie Venezia (middle), and Matt List, a trio of Lincoln engineers who stuffed a 390-hp, 4.6-liter Roush V-8 into a Lincoln LS to run this year's One Lap. It looked like a promising setup, and cooler still, it had the blessing of the boss. Unfortunately, the hot-rod Lincoln ventilated its engine block in its first run at Heartland Park. The boys phoned home, and the boss, Ned Nuss, told them to find a way to finish, then helped them implement his mandate with some online research. The solution was a $15,000 '03 Ford Crown Victoria, which the trio split three ways on their corporate credit cards. Swapping engines and getting the supercharger hardware attached took about 11 hours, and by 5 a.m. the next morning, the Lincoln was on its way to Pikes Peak. And who said Panthers aren't useful? Edited January 5, 2012 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That was a big part of it IMO. The 4.6 would fit in the bay but it couldn't be installed from the bottom due to one of the aluminum suspension pieces therefore not feasible for assembly line. The AJV8 was super smooth but expensive and limited. Incidentally - there were at least 2 LS with the 4.6L engine. One was a test mule at the Ford test track and the other was built by a bunch of Ford engineers to compete in the Car and Driver One Lap of America competition in 2004-ish. It had a Roush supercharged 4.6L. Your information is mostly correct. An LS with a 4.6l was investigated and there was a mule running around (I actually drove it -- it was more than a bit crude, but fun). You are correct that the clearance was too tight to install the 4.6l on line at assembly line speed. I can't remember -- you might be right that it was a suspension bit, but my recollection is it was the shock towers and there was less than 1/2 inch total (1/4 inch per side) which the manufacturing guys were insisting upon. Nevertheless, the possibility of doing a performance LS with a 4.6l was investigated. It would have been assembled partially off-line, and also would have only been available with a manual transmission (5-speed) due to packaging. Limited market and high cost killed it. The LS and 'bird also considered application of a supercharged 3.9l AJ late in the cycle. Jag had held this one up due to brand differentiation, and by time Jag relented and it was considered in earnest, it was too late. The LS replacement, which was stillborn, was to utilize a 4.6l which was cheaper, but a big step back in terms of refinement IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Your information is mostly correct. An LS with a 4.6l was investigated and there was a mule running around (I actually drove it -- it was more than a bit crude, but fun). You are correct that the clearance was too tight to install the 4.6l on line at assembly line speed. I can't remember -- you might be right that it was a suspension bit, but my recollection is it was the shock towers and there was less than 1/2 inch total (1/4 inch per side) which the manufacturing guys were insisting upon. Nevertheless, the possibility of doing a performance LS with a 4.6l was investigated. It would have been assembled partially off-line, and also would have only been available with a manual transmission (5-speed) due to packaging. Limited market and high cost killed it. The LS and 'bird also considered application of a supercharged 3.9l AJ late in the cycle. Jag had held this one up due to brand differentiation, and by time Jag relented and it was considered in earnest, it was too late. The LS replacement, which was stillborn, was to utilize a 4.6l which was cheaper, but a big step back in terms of refinement IMO. Several members of the Lincoln LS Owner's Club got to ride in the prototype mule. They said it was a blast. They said it was a suspension piece but it could have been shock towers. Just think where Lincoln would be now if Mulally had been there back in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The LS replacement, which was stillborn, was to utilize a 4.6l which was cheaper, but a big step back in terms of refinement IMO. Eh, nothing at all unrefined about the 4.6 3V or 4V in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Eh, nothing at all unrefined about the 4.6 3V or 4V in my opinion. Well the 3V wasn't available at the time either....any who knows maybe the replacement was built cheaper, factoring in the lack of refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Eh, nothing at all unrefined about the 4.6 3V or 4V in my opinion. I owned both a 3.9L AJV8 and a 4.6L 4V and trust me - that Jag V8 is silky smooth compared to the 4.6 (or most any other V8). You really can't appreciate it until you've owned one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I owned both a 3.9L AJV8 and a 4.6L 4V and trust me - that Jag V8 is silky smooth compared to the 4.6 (or most any other V8). You really can't appreciate it until you've owned one. Silky smooth in what regards? The 4.6 4V in my Cobra runs smooth as silk in my opinion. Is it louder? Certainly. But that's mainly a function of my exhaust. Throw the same muffling and other NVH suppression techniques on the 4.6 4V, such as the engine mounts, firewall/hood sound deadening, etc, as they did to the powertrains being used in the LS and they'd very likely be comparable. Remember: NVH wasn't as high a priority for the Mustang (or the 90's era Continental for that matter) as it would be for a newer Lincoln or Jaguar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I owned both a 3.9L AJV8 and a 4.6L 4V and trust me - that Jag V8 is silky smooth compared to the 4.6 (or most any other V8). You really can't appreciate it until you've owned one. I'll "+1" that. I do miss that since I got rid of the LS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Eh. I've driven a 5 liter Mustang, and a 5 liter XF on the same day... no difference in refinement. Almost to a fault with the Mustang. Too smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Several members of the Lincoln LS Owner's Club got to ride in the prototype mule. They said it was a blast. They said it was a suspension piece but it could have been shock towers. After thinking about this for a bit, I'm thinking it might have been the front rails. IIRC, the complete powertrain and suspension was assembled as a unit, then spin balanced, then decked into the body. So it would have had to have been something that hit on the way up. The 4.6l RRF heads were broader (but flatter) than the 3.9l DAMB heads, so I think that's where the problem lay. But trying to pull the cars offline, and doing this process manually so this could be "nursed" into the car was just not going to work affordably. Just think where Lincoln would be now if Mulally had been there back in 2000. I actually think I have the knowledge to provide a pretty good detailed story of why we no longer have the LS, but it would be very lengthy, would probably bore everyone, and would take this thread further off base. As soon as the LS and Jag S-Type started production, the two cars started separating from a hardware standpoint. I don't think Mullaly would have allowed that to happen. (Nor would he have settled for a "no solution" to Mustang/Falcon commonality). True, there were some factors that were due to the times that caused problems -- like UAW employment guarantees that resulted in crappy Visteon steering columns and steering gears (both of which Jag ran away from to ZF/Lemforder). In the end, one of the biggest reasons LS died was it just happened to be the last man standing at Wixom. Wixom was a large, inefficient plant with high overhead and all the other users of the plant were leaving. So all of the costs had to be borne by the remaining production. No program in Ford -- even a truck program -- could have been profitable in Wixom. And there wasn't enough money nor a proper site to move production. This is why Mullaly's insistance on commonality and flexibility has such relevance, so plants can change production to match customers and remain relatively full and not stick some single vehicle program with the total bill. Unfortunately lights out to the LS which I consider to be one of the best cars Ford ever made, despite some warts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I actually think I have the knowledge to provide a pretty good detailed story of why we no longer have the LS, but it would be very lengthy, would probably bore everyone, and would take this thread further off base. Start another thread...always interesting to learn why programs do what they do and why they where killed off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 In the end, one of the biggest reasons LS died was it just happened to be the last man standing at Wixom. Wasn't the LS cancelled before the Town Car left Wixom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Wasn't the LS cancelled before the Town Car left Wixom? I think the TC was announced to be moved to TCAP around when when the LS was cancelled, as part of the Way Forward Plan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Start another thread...always interesting to learn why programs do what they do and why they where killed off... Yes, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.