Just Ordered 2013 C-Max

[Deanh]

Before I got access to X plan I would just call the sales manager and ask how much above invoice they wanted for whatever I was looking for. 8 times out of 10 I got an immediate straight answer. When new explorers were hot back in 93 I called about a 2WD XLT 4 door and the immediate answer was $800 over invoice. I asked if he could do $500 and he said sure - if you want a 4WD or an Eddie Bauer or a 2 door, but 4 door XLTs were hot. The entire conversation took 60 seconds. I found one willing to take $500 over invoice which was a good deal at the time. Turns out they were trading for it from the dealer I originally called. Then that dealer sold it out from under the other dealer who had to find another one. I'll never forget the salesman's name on that one - Rocky Beretta.

 

I would not expect to pay less than invoice (minus all factory rebates or dealer incentives) unless it's a vehicle that's been sitting for a long time and the dealer needs to get rid of. That leaves the dealer with 3% holdback and that's not much after the salesman gets their commission.

Thankyou, color me refreshed.....buying a car doesnt have to be as terrifying an endevour as some make it out to be, OR a battle. Course, to an extent that depends on demographics.....try buying a car in hawaii.....

[jasonj80]

check that American quarterhorse is compatible with a x or Zplan. It may not be. Also, i struck something interesting the other day with an Aplan deal, the trade in assistance was different ( read lower ) than with a regular retail customer....nothing is a given anymore...

 

Yeah, that happens a lot with the trade in with A/Z plan. Most of the time it isn't worth it to trade the car in, and just sell the car yourself. If you really want the highest trade in don't do it around Metro Detroit for sure - used cars here are so cheap as so many people get Employee Pricing it makes used cars hard sells. When you can lease a Loaded Fusion SEL for $169 a month or a Traverse for $140 a month with no money down, used car value drop like a rock.

 

A/Z/X is nice just walk in and pay the price the rebates are listed and sometimes they have extra bonus cash. I was just putting those rebates out there for people that may not get A/X/Z Plan. I'm not looking for a car now, but if I was I'd for sure check into those.

 

BTW Deanh, do you know if the Energi C-MAX/Fusion have passed certification for HOV access? My Cousin wants a C-max and Aunt wants a Fusion, I also wonder what the tax rebates will be on them - could bring the price for the plug-ins very close to the regular hybrid models. I do already see though that the Energi models are not AXZ Plan Compatible.

Edited July 18, 2012 by jasonj80

[Deanh]

Yeah, that happens a lot with the trade in with A/Z plan. Most of the time it isn't worth it to trade the car in, and just sell the car yourself. If you really want the highest trade in don't do it around Metro Detroit for sure - used cars here are so cheap as so many people get Employee Pricing it makes used cars hard sells. When you can lease a Loaded Fusion SEL for $169 a month or a Traverse for $140 a month with no money down, used car value drop like a rock.

 

A/Z/X is nice just walk in and pay the price the rebates are listed and sometimes they have extra bonus cash. I was just putting those rebates out there for people that may not get A/X/Z Plan. I'm not looking for a car now, but if I was I'd for sure check into those.

 

BTW Deanh, do you know if the Energi C-MAX/Fusion have passed certification for HOV access? My Cousin wants a C-max and Aunt wants a Fusion, I also wonder what the tax rebates will be on them - could bring the price for the plug-ins very close to the regular hybrid models. I do already see though that the Energi models are not AXZ Plan Compatible.

no idea on the HOV or tax rebates yet, but did see a photo of a Blue ( and Im not a Blue person ) Energi Fusion, it was STUNNING.

[timmm55]

its the sense of entitlement you are portraying thats struck a nerve....and NO, under NO circumstances is the customer always right....amd YES there IS always another customer, thats reality not a beleif. And apologies, Im not one to sugar coat or supply a foot massage when stating facts.

 

What entitlement? He just asking if he got a reasonable deal. With a $1000 rebate and $2000 off the sticker I'd say yes.

I've been in Customer Service all my life. The customer is always right is just lip service to placate a difficult customer (Originally said in sarcasm I'm sure).

My neighbor went to look at a new Prius, same dealership where he bought his current one. They totally dicked him on trade-in value and the price of the new car (way over MSRP)........apparently they thought there was a sucker born every minute. He won't be another customer, he's taking his service work to another Toyota dealer.

 

That's the problem with pithy sayings, they are never always true, if at all.

[Deanh]

What entitlement? He just asking if he got a reasonable deal. With a $1000 rebate and $2000 off the sticker I'd say yes.

I've been in Customer Service all my life. The customer is always right is just lip service to placate a difficult customer (Originally said in sarcasm I'm sure).

My neighbor went to look at a new Prius, same dealership where he bought his current one. They totally dicked him on trade-in value and the price of the new car (way over MSRP)........apparently they thought there was a sucker born every minute. He won't be another customer, he's taking his service work to another Toyota dealer.

 

That's the problem with pithy sayings, they are never always true, if at all.

good and bad , ALWAYS two sides timm, always....it was the wording that ticked my nerve......what he was WILLING to pay....he wasnt asking, he was TELLING. As for your neighbor, just like the dealer he has the right to say no, and due to the fact he knew better he wasnt taken advantage of, and any reasonably educated buyer can avoid that scenario. But as a dealer, we also maintain that right ( to politely refuse ) Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[jasonj80]

no idea on the HOV or tax rebates yet, but did see a photo of a Blue ( and Im not a Blue person ) Energi Fusion, it was STUNNING.

 

I've seen the Fusions all over Dearborn of late and they are fantastic looking cars. What I don't like are the Brake/Turn signals -- I'm actually amazed they meet DOT requirements for visibility. The LED's look very slit like and aren't as bright as I think they should be -- what is wired is that the tail lights on the Mondeo's are actually brighter when you apply the brakes and have much more definition, they use LED's for the outside of the light but regular turn signals bulbs in amber where the US versions have red LEDs in the white part that function as both turn and brake and have a much smaller area used for brake lights than on the rear of the Euro version. The Front looks like a Jaguar at a distance. The MKZ has presence too - and the rear end and lights look fantastic, and I haven't seen an antenna stuck on the back on one yet.

Edited July 18, 2012 by jasonj80

[Deanh]

I've seen the Fusions all over Dearborn of late and they are fantastic looking cars. What I don't like are the Brake/Turn signals -- I'm actually amazed they meet DOT requirements for visibility. The LED's look very slit like and aren't as bright as I think they should be -- what is wired is that the tail lights on the Mondeo's are actually brighter when you apply the brakes and have much more definition, they use LED's for the outside of the light but regular turn signals bulbs in amber where the US versions have red LEDs in the white part that function as both turn and brake but have a much smaller area used for brake lights on the rear than the Euro version. The Front looks like a Jaguar at a distance. The MKZ has presence too - and the rear end and lights look fantastic, and I haven't seen an antenna stuck on the back on one yet.

all us poor buggers have seen is photos, airbrushed and all, cant wait, i really think Ford has a game changer on its hands....

[jasonj80]

all us poor buggers have seen is photos, airbrushed and all, cant wait, i really think Ford has a game changer on its hands....

 

I just hope the launch of this car is flawless - it can really be the car to get people back to consider a Ford again. The other thing with it is I think the options are confusion - they have way to many packages on the SE.

[NLPRacing]

Whatever possible? Not quite. Whatever is practical yes. But there are limits if the savings come down to some measily amount. After all, convenience has some sort of intangible value.

 

That's what I meant, whatever possible within reason, to get a decent ROI for the time you spend. For example, if I'm in the market for an expensive piece of electronics or an appliance, I find the one I want, search for the lowest price based on the model number. Then a find a retailer that will price match or better yet, price match plus an extra 10% off, then go buy it there.

 

Of course, but I also beleive in compromise rather than stating what Im WILLING to pay.....buying a car is NOT doing a dealership a special favor.... ( PS, I just dealt with a customer like this, entitlement and all, what was worse is he was an attourney....not my favorite people )

 

When I bought my Expedition, I searched the inventories of all the local Ford dealers to find the one I wanted. Once I did, I called and asked how much from invoice they would be willing to sell it to me for. The first place (the place I had bought my last new Ford from) said at invoice, so I went down and tried to make a deal, but they offered $2000 less than Carmax offered for my trade. I said thanks and left. I called the next place, they also said at invoice (I guess the Expedition EL's weren't moving too well at the time). I went down there and they matched Carmax's price on my trade in, sold it to me at invoice and I drove it home. Quick & easy for everybody involved.

[transitman]

good and bad , ALWAYS two sides timm, always....it was the wording that ticked my nerve......what he was WILLING to pay....he wasnt asking, he was TELLING. As for your neighbor, just like the dealer he has the right to say no, and due to the fact he knew better he wasnt taken advantage of, and any reasonably educated buyer can avoid that scenario. But as a dealer, we also maintain that right ( to politely refuse )

Yep, and they tell me what they are willing to sell it for. It does go both ways, good and bad because both parties want to get the best deal. I don't know why you're all twisted up on this.

Edited July 18, 2012 by transitman

[Deanh]

That's what I meant, whatever possible within reason, to get a decent ROI for the time you spend. For example, if I'm in the market for an expensive piece of electronics or an appliance, I find the one I want, search for the lowest price based on the model number. Then a find a retailer that will price match or better yet, price match plus an extra 10% off, then go buy it there.

 

 

 

When I bought my Expedition, I searched the inventories of all the local Ford dealers to find the one I wanted. Once I did, I called and asked how much from invoice they would be willing to sell it to me for. The first place (the place I had bought my last new Ford from) said at invoice, so I went down and tried to make a deal, but they offered $2000 less than Carmax offered for my trade. I said thanks and left. I called the next place, they also said at invoice (I guess the Expedition EL's weren't moving too well at the time). I went down there and they matched Carmax's price on my trade in, sold it to me at invoice and I drove it home. Quick & easy for everybody involved.

did I mention the customer failed to tell me his Home Equity loan was in foreclosure proceedings?......that was AFTER a multitude of hours of him demanding certain equipment, running numbers on Edges and Escapes, 2 and 3 year lease numbers 15000, 12000 and 10500 miles with and without downpayment.....I like him ( Attourney ) should have charged an outrageous hourly rate for MY time..... Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[Deanh]

Yep, and they tell me what they are willing to sell it for.

theres that word compromise again......not, its my way or the highway.....maybe it was just your wording I found offensive." tell the salesman that's what you want to pay. If they don't accept your number, walk away, they'll get back to you"......if you were in this business you would probably find that offensive as well....please, go waste your own time. Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[transitman]

did I mention the customer failed to tell me his Home Equity loan was in foreclosure proceedings?......that was AFTER a multitude of hours of him demanding certain equipment, running numbers on Edges and Escapes, 2 and 3 year lease numbers 15000, 12000 and 10500 miles with and without downpayment.....I like him ( Attourney ) should have charged an outrageous hourly rate for MY time.....

But that ain't me. I have a good job, just sold my house for a nice profit, plenty of cash in the bank and a credit rating of 760. I know exactly what I want and I know the price range I am willing to pay. I don't go in demanding I get the car for a certain price, but I know the range I am willing to pay. I go in willing to negotiate, but also prepared to walk away.

[Deanh]

But that ain't me. I have a good job, just sold my house for a nice profit, plenty of cash in the bank and a credit rating of 760. I know exactly what I want and I know the price range I am willing to pay. I don't go in demanding I get the car for a certain price, but I know the range I am willing to pay. I go in willing to negotiate, but also prepared to walk away.

This statement contradicts that completely " tell the salesman that's what you want to pay. If they don't accept your number, walk away, they'll get back to you"...like I said, maybe Im mis-reading the wording, but theres nothing there about range or negotiating.....

[Noah Harbinger]

good and bad , ALWAYS two sides timm, always....it was the wording that ticked my nerve......what he was WILLING to pay....he wasnt asking, he was TELLING. As for your neighbor, just like the dealer he has the right to say no, and due to the fact he knew better he wasnt taken advantage of, and any reasonably educated buyer can avoid that scenario. But as a dealer, we also maintain that right ( to politely refuse )

 

And yet akirby used the exact same wording about the dealer "willing" to go ### over invoice, a comment you yourself praised.

 

You give off the exact same smug sense of superiority over your customers that has given dealers a bad reputation for decades. The game is already tilted in your favor, with an immense gap in knowledge between salesmen and customer. But you're not happy with that. You want uneducated customers groveling for Your Majesty to deign to bestow upon them the right to purchase such a fabulous contraption despite their clear unworthiness, and curse them if they don't take your word about whether the price is fair. You want to be free to take a sap for a ride, but cry endlessly if the customer dares to educate themselves. That's the attitude I'm sick of hearing.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Noah Harbinger

[Deanh]

But that ain't me. I have a good job, just sold my house for a nice profit, plenty of cash in the bank and a credit rating of 760. I know exactly what I want and I know the price range I am willing to pay. I don't go in demanding I get the car for a certain price, but I know the range I am willing to pay. I go in willing to negotiate, but also prepared to walk away.

did someone walk in and tell you what they would buy your house for....lol....

[Deanh]

And yet akirby used the exact same wording about the dealer "willing" to go ### over invoice, a comment you yourself praised.

 

You give off the exact same smug sense of superiority over your customers that has given dealers a bad reputation for decades. The game is already tilted in your favor, with an immense gap in knowledge between salesmen and customer. But you're not happy with that. You want uneducated customers groveling for Your Majesty to deign to bestow upon them the right to purchase such a fabulous contraption despite their clear unworthiness, and curse them if they don't take your word about whether the price is fair. You want to be free to take a sap for a ride, but cry endlessly if the customer dares to educate themselves. That's the attitude I'm sick of hearing.

rubbish, I just see people jumping through hoops, and throwing accusations, when the process can be exceptionally simple...and you bring up the ONE thing I despise....the word GAME. Theres also no gap in knowledge, EVERYTHING is on the internet, two names were even mentioned, Edmunds and one other, but then again, they dont sell cars do they. If someone, and its happened, barrels there way into my office and starts playing games and demanding what i sell the car to them for, then leaves EXPECTING me to follow, they are sadly mistaken. If its a fair deal so be it, it was the wording I took offense to, and if you were in this business you would too, so dont treat your sale person or dealership as a second class citizen, thats how it came off, and trust me, theres no smuggness on my end, in 25 years Ive seen everything, and I mean everything, and I will continue to treat customers in the same way I would wish to be treated myself. PS, when exactly did you have your bad experience?.... Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[Deanh]

And yet akirby used the exact same wording about the dealer "willing" to go ### over invoice, a comment you yourself praised.

 

You give off the exact same smug sense of superiority over your customers that has given dealers a bad reputation for decades. The game is already tilted in your favor, with an immense gap in knowledge between salesmen and customer. But you're not happy with that. You want uneducated customers groveling for Your Majesty to deign to bestow upon them the right to purchase such a fabulous contraption despite their clear unworthiness, and curse them if they don't take your word about whether the price is fair. You want to be free to take a sap for a ride, but cry endlessly if the customer dares to educate themselves. That's the attitude I'm sick of hearing.

if "smug" equates to politely refuse, then color me guilty. And I have ZERO issues with customers educating themselves, it speeds the process up, i will say however that some information that is used for educational purposes can and is only as accurate as the individuals that enter said information, and some, is inaccurate. Unfortunately, because its internet based it must be true correct?....And because an individual can pull invoice pricing off the internet, then thats what the Dealer must sell it at correct?.....

[Deanh]

well I tell a lie, I havent seen this....A Kentucky couple face up to 20 years in jail for trading their used pickup for a baby.

 

The couple, Jeremy and Jamie Brown, pleaded not guilty to human trafficking charges Friday after they allegedly traded a 1999 Dodge Dakota to Heather Kaminsky for her newborn in January. Jamie Brown and Kaminsky were childhood friends.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[transitman]

This statement contradicts that completely " tell the salesman that's what you want to pay. If they don't accept your number, walk away, they'll get back to you"...like I said, maybe Im mis-reading the wording, but theres nothing there about range or negotiating.....

You are right, I did say that. Like it or not, it's a valid negotiating tatic. A buyer can sit at the table and be told what's going to happen, or they can sit at the table and have control of their situation.

[transitman]

did someone walk in and tell you what they would buy your house for....lol....

No, but I knew the price I wasn't going to sell it for.

[Deanh]

 

You are right, I did say that. Like it or not, it's a valid negotiating tatic. A buyer can sit at the table and be told what's going to happen, or they can sit at the table and have control of their situation.

seriously though, there should be no telling, it should be an open transparent compromise where both parties are happy...I dont play or tolerate "games". un-necessary IMO.

[Deanh]

seriously though, there should be no telling, it should be an open transparent compromise where both parties are happy...I dont play or tolerate "games". un-necessary IMO.

ironically I just started a thread based upon some responses here. How should you, or what are your expectations when being sold a vehicle....should be interesting gauging what peoples perceptions and expectations are... Edited July 18, 2012 by Deanh

[akirby]

And yet akirby used the exact same wording about the dealer "willing" to go ### over invoice, a comment you yourself praised.

 

You give off the exact same smug sense of superiority over your customers that has given dealers a bad reputation for decades. The game is already tilted in your favor, with an immense gap in knowledge between salesmen and customer. But you're not happy with that. You want uneducated customers groveling for Your Majesty to deign to bestow upon them the right to purchase such a fabulous contraption despite their clear unworthiness, and curse them if they don't take your word about whether the price is fair. You want to be free to take a sap for a ride, but cry endlessly if the customer dares to educate themselves. That's the attitude I'm sick of hearing.

 

All Dean is asking for is a little respect from both sides. If I negotiate on anything where I have a max price that I'm willing to pay - I don't "expect" the seller to come down to my price. I respect that the seller may not be able or willing to go that low and that's perfectly fine. So I'll make my offer and if the dealer says no then I walk away with no drama and no hard feelings.

 

No need for "games" or "tactics" and respect is maintained at all times.

[SoonerLS]

Unless the X Plan rules have changed drastically, to use it, you have to tell the salesman/dealership up front that it will be an X Plan purchase. I don't see how you can comply with that requirement if you've already "ordered" your vehicle...