Deanh Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 0-60 = 5.9 ( hmmm, where are all the 6.3 is slow naysayers ). Skidpad "bordering on preposterous Supercar like 0.96g" ( I seem to recall a lot of torque vectoring poo-pooing )...The Focus ST is a car thats a raging bargain and the best thing ever to come out of Wayne, Michigan...nuff said, only thing I can add is the car borders on TOO refined.....its missing that "HOLLY S--T " moment we all love.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Did you forget something in the topic title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Did you forget something in the topic title? I did put in ST snippets, perhaps someone could edit the title.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 ( hmmm, where are all the 6.3 is slow naysayers )... If the Focus ST dialed-in at 6.3 seconds, then yes, everyone would be calling it slow. It still gets dusted by its competition, but for God's sakes, at least it can crack into the five's. And the Fusion is a bit slow compared to its competition as well, but that's a bit different because of that being a midsize family sedan, so is the buyer willing to have a touch less "oomph" for the Fusion's styling/features? I think so. Again, different class of car, different buyer set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 If the Focus ST dialed-in at 6.3 seconds, then yes, everyone would be calling it slow. It still gets dusted by its competition, but for God's sakes, at least it can crack into the five's. And the Fusion is a bit slow compared to its competition as well, but that's a bit different because of that being a midsize family sedan, so is the buyer willing to have a touch less "oomph" for the Fusion's styling/features? I think so. Again, different class of car, different buyer set. which competition dusts it, the other cars in te test were the Mazdaspeed3 and Volkswagon GTI....the 6.3 was Fords estimates I beleive...and please...no EVO or WRX unless one of the catagories is lack of refinement..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Did you forget something in the topic title? ...or even a link to the article?? Deanhs' forgotten article link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 and please...no EVO or WRX unless one of the catagories is lack of refinement..... Not mention that a loaded ST is about $2K cheaper then a similarly equipped WRX..and the WRX doesn't even offer the same options as the ST comes with. I won't even talk about the Lancer, the Ralliart is nearly $5K more and the Evo GSR is nearly $11K more....the Ralliart has about 2500 worth of options that aren't on the ST like locking diffs for AWD and some other crap that is roughly matched by the Sync System in the ST...but it is still far cheaper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 which competition dusts it, the other cars in te test were the Mazdaspeed3 and Volkswagon GTI....the 6.3 was Fords estimates I beleive...and please...no EVO or WRX unless one of the catagories is lack of refinement..... Evo and WRX may be unrefined to you, but they're the FIRST two that get compared to the ST normally, as they're often thought of as the standard-bearers of that class. And in this class, refinement's great, but yes, performance numbers are JUST AS, if not MORE important. LOL, when you hear people talk about these cars, refinement and quality of the interior materials aren't exactly the first things discussed. (Maybe the Recaros get a mention a few minutes in, but that's about it, at least at the beginning) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I just wanted To say thank you Ford of Europe for making such an amazing car, and thank you to Ford of North America for offering this car in the USA. Now can we have a touring edition of the focus with the new Ecoboost 1.5, 6 speed manual, the ST steering rack and suspension tuned between the ST and the Titanium handling package, PLEEEEAZE!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 it’s the 270-lb.-ft. of torque at a mere 2500 rpm that defines the engine’s character. There’s got to be a better name than EcoBoost for something this charismatic. EcoBoss? Boss 2.0? Thumper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Evo and WRX may be unrefined to you, but they're the FIRST two that get compared to the ST normally, as they're often thought of as the standard-bearers of that class. And in this class, refinement's great, but yes, performance numbers are JUST AS, if not MORE important. LOL, when you hear people talk about these cars, refinement and quality of the interior materials aren't exactly the first things discussed. (Maybe the Recaros get a mention a few minutes in, but that's about it, at least at the beginning) Evo and WRX are cars that kids aspire to, but cannot afford. So, they buy a used, trashed one, and think they really have something. Yes they do, a fast POS. Sorry, I'm not in my late teens/early 20's anymore, and there is more to performance than just 0-60 times. I'm looking at an ST (actually, my husband is) for a daily driver. Thus, refinement and good road manners, as well as a well appointed and pleasant interior are huge positives. Handling and fun to drive are also huge. 0-60 times are great, but I will leave them to the "dos that thang have a hemi in it," crowd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probeGT Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Evo and WRX are cars that kids aspire to, but cannot afford. So, they buy a used, trashed one, and think they really have something. Yes they do, a fast POS. Sorry, I'm not in my late teens/early 20's anymore, and there is more to performance than just 0-60 times. I'm looking at an ST (actually, my husband is) for a daily driver. Thus, refinement and good road manners, as well as a well appointed and pleasant interior are huge positives. Handling and fun to drive are also huge. 0-60 times are great, but I will leave them to the "dos that thang have a hemi in it," crowd. Ditto here. . . I DO care about refinement. . . .I'm almost 50 and for the first time in a decade I feel that Ford has created a car worth giving up my Probe for. Next big mechanical thing that happens to the Probe, it's out and an Oxford White ST2 with moonroof is in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Evo and WRX are cars that kids aspire to, but cannot afford. So, they buy a used, trashed one, and think they really have something. Yes they do, a fast POS. Sorry, I'm not in my late teens/early 20's anymore, and there is more to performance than just 0-60 times. I'm looking at an ST (actually, my husband is) for a daily driver. Thus, refinement and good road manners, as well as a well appointed and pleasant interior are huge positives. Handling and fun to drive are also huge. 0-60 times are great, but I will leave them to the "dos that thang have a hemi in it," crowd. So, you're saying that I, (or anyone else for that matter) am/are immature or a child because I (or they) happen to like those two cars? Or because speed/acceleration happen to be more important to me personally than other traits you personally may favor? Really? I think your immaturity just shone through Gloria, that was pretty shallow. In a daily driver scenario as you describe, sure the other things would play a bigger role. As a toy like a Mustang that isn't daily driven? Yea, not so much... For the record, I'm far from my late teens/early 20s. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) The ST in this test was $29k+. I don't know that I'd pick an EVO over the ST, but for that money I would get a WRX (or I would scrap together a little more to get a base MGT). If I am in the market for a performance car, then performance would be high on my decision list. If I am buying a base Focus or an Imprezza then that list might get reshuffled. BTW, my next 'big' birthday will be my 50th. Edited October 10, 2012 by jpvbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The ST in this test was $29k+. I don't know that I'd pick an EVO over the ST, but for that money I would get a WRX (or I would scrap together a little more to get a base MGT). So your basically saying your value performance over a better equipped car? The ST starts at just under 25K...the base WRX starts at 26K for a stripper car that gets worse MPG's and only gives you about 10 HP more? The STI WRX is the beast model, but it also costs nearly 40K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So your basically saying your value performance over a better equipped car? Considering they are marketed as performance cars, I would think that the demographics would skew that way. The ST starts at just under 25K...the base WRX starts at 26K for a stripper car that gets worse MPG's and only gives you about 10 HP more? The STI WRX is the beast model, but it also costs nearly 40K! It may be only ~10 Hp but it puts it to the ground more effectively (some tests put 0-60 @ <5 secs for the base WRX). MPGs are probably below 'refinement' on my performance car priority list. Again, if I'm shopping for a base model those priorities change. I don't think it is fair or sensical to discount the WRX (or Mitsu) as ST competition. That said, the ST isn't without virtue. I'm sure it will sell. It makes a better case than the 3 or GTI. The GTI in particular is seriously outclassed in this category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So, you're saying that I, (or anyone else for that matter) am/are immature or a child because I (or they) happen to like those two cars? Or because speed/acceleration happen to be more important to me personally than other traits you personally may favor? Really? I think your immaturity just shone through Gloria, that was pretty shallow. In a daily driver scenario as you describe, sure the other things would play a bigger role. As a toy like a Mustang that isn't daily driven? Yea, not so much... For the record, I'm far from my late teens/early 20s. Nowhere did I say that ONLY kids look at the cars. How much time have you spent at car shows/drag strips/road courses conversing with enthusiasts of all kinds?? The funny thing is, I love AWD vehicles more than most on this site, yet I could never aspire to a WRX or EVO. About 10 minutes sitting in the car, sitting still, would be all I need. I love performance, but I will not accept performance as the sole substitute for a subpar car. In other words, it does not cure all ills. The kids remark comes from that. Kids normally could give a care if the performance was wrapped in sculptured poop. As long as it is fast, it is good in their books. I'm too old to be that way. Yes, I want my cake, and want to eat it too. A few 10ths one way or another has no bearing on my daily life. The environment that I have to sit in, on a daily basis does. Plus, the ST has been universally praised for being huge on the fun to drive ratio. THAT is where I come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 . . . .As a toy like a Mustang that isn't daily driven? Yea, not so much. . . Slightly off topic, but I wanted to point out that my daily driver is a Mustang GT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Considering they are marketed as performance cars, I would think that the demographics would skew that way. It may be only ~10 Hp but it puts it to the ground more effectively (some tests put 0-60 @ <5 secs for the base WRX). MPGs are probably below 'refinement' on my performance car priority list. Again, if I'm shopping for a base model those priorities change. I don't think it is fair or sensical to discount the WRX (or Mitsu) as ST competition. I'd have to disagree with you on that...using the Mustang as an example...when it launched in 2005, there was a bunch of stuff that was optional on it that was more or less in the refinement category (Interior upgrade package etc)...but the take rate on them was over 80%. When the Mustang was refreshed in 2009, most of the refinement stuff became standard and additional options where added. As for performance numbers....are you going to see this in every day driving? Heck my GF 2010 Escape performs almost as well as my Mustang GT I have..yes there is a difference, but for pulling out on the highway, it has plenty of pep... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Nowhere did I say that ONLY kids look at the cars. How much time have you spent at car shows/drag strips/road courses conversing with enthusiasts of all kinds?? The funny thing is, I love AWD vehicles more than most on this site, yet I could never aspire to a WRX or EVO. About 10 minutes sitting in the car, sitting still, would be all I need. I love performance, but I will not accept performance as the sole substitute for a subpar car. In other words, it does not cure all ills. The kids remark comes from that. Kids normally could give a care if the performance was wrapped in sculptured poop. As long as it is fast, it is good in their books. I'm too old to be that way. Yes, I want my cake, and want to eat it too. A few 10ths one way or another has no bearing on my daily life. The environment that I have to sit in, on a daily basis does. Plus, the ST has been universally praised for being huge on the fun to drive ratio. THAT is where I come from. First off, to answer your question, LOTS! I've been hanging around those types of places since I was an early teenager, where do you think my original statement came from? Talking to the folks at the track, swap meets, and the car shows. Secondly, re-read your opening sentence in your original post, how was I not to take that as you implying that you think those cars are childish, or only cars that kids aspire to? Again, seeing that the ST will serve as a daily driver for your husband, I can understand the other things coming under much heavier consideration. But to imply that the WRX and the EVO are complete trash, when clearly performance IS the way these cars are marketed, and those two vehicles perform better in one or more aspects, is simply ridiculous. So is implying that the choice of the ST is the one that any self-respecting, mature adult should make. Different strokes for different folks. No, Ford is not the do-all, be-all, end-all for every single vehicle category out there, of which you seemingly clearly believe it is, your posts reflecting so. And this is no personal attack, I respect you highly, and have read your posts for years, both here and over on GMI, and love the fact that you can hang with the boys because you really do have the experience with vehicles. And I have even defended you in one particular instance that someone here got quite ignorant in a message I was sent. So don't think I'm "one of those guys." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'd have to disagree with you on that...using the Mustang as an example...when it launched in 2005, there was a bunch of stuff that was optional on it that was more or less in the refinement category (Interior upgrade package etc)...but the take rate on them was over 80%. When the Mustang was refreshed in 2009, most of the refinement stuff became standard and additional options where added... Isn't it kinda like that with any vehicle though? When they're first launched or fresh off of a major redo, they have all of these options/packages, then, as time goes by, each year, some of the most popular stuff gets added, and then each year, the price climbs up a little bit, due to the added standard content. At the end of the life cycle, most of these options are now standard, so that the new or revised model launches with a plethora of new, exciting features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) Isn't it kinda like that with any vehicle though? When they're first launched or fresh off of a major redo, they have all of these options/packages, then, as time goes by, each year, some of the most popular stuff gets added, and then each year, the price climbs up a little bit, due to the added standard content. At the end of the life cycle, most of these options are now standard, so that the new or revised model launches with a plethora of new, exciting features. Not quite....IIRC, the coupe GT started at $25K or so...by 2009 MY, the Base price was near 29K....thats nearly a 25% price increase and the price of a nearly "loaded" GT (at least my 06 MGT was)...which mostly was from making optional packages standard (that maybe shouldn't have been options on the 05-09 generation, because Ford made it "cheap" due to the leadership at the time). Given the fact that you can get a GT convertible (with all the extra do-dads on it that are strictly optional appearance packages) that now lists for $46K or so...I'd say thats a pretty siginificatant increase in price in 5 years...over the same car a year before was under $40K... The difference between the 05 and 09 Mustang was mostly sheetmetal and an improved interior...no major engineering changes (new V8 and V6) happened till 2 years later...and the price was only bumped up maybe 5-10% over what it was with the 09-11 generation... Edited October 11, 2012 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yea, back then, I ordered an '08 GT coupe with every option available except for the automatic, and for shits and giggles, I remember pricing out an '09 (last year for that body style), and I was surprised at how much the jump in one year was. (Again, some options packages were now standard on the '09s, but still, it caught me off guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Evo and WRX may be unrefined to you, but they're the FIRST two that get compared to the ST normally, as they're often thought of as the standard-bearers of that class. And in this class, refinement's great, but yes, performance numbers are JUST AS, if not MORE important. LOL, when you hear people talk about these cars, refinement and quality of the interior materials aren't exactly the first things discussed. (Maybe the Recaros get a mention a few minutes in, but that's about it, at least at the beginning) wrong....sorry, main stalwarts are Mazaspeed, GTI, Hyundai, those are whats being cross-shopped...havent hear ONE mention of EVO or WRX....would be a different story if Ford released an RS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Evo and WRX are cars that kids aspire to, but cannot afford. So, they buy a used, trashed one, and think they really have something. Yes they do, a fast POS. Sorry, I'm not in my late teens/early 20's anymore, and there is more to performance than just 0-60 times. I'm looking at an ST (actually, my husband is) for a daily driver. Thus, refinement and good road manners, as well as a well appointed and pleasant interior are huge positives. Handling and fun to drive are also huge. 0-60 times are great, but I will leave them to the "dos that thang have a hemi in it," crowd. not to mention the EVOS especially seem to have a short shelf life and then explode, tweeked Subbies arent much better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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