Ford, Industry report December 2012 and year end sales results

[Anthony]

Time for info sharing. Charger is Rear wheel drive and offers the following models...SE,SXT,RT,SXT PLUS,RT PLS, RT ROAD AND TRACK,RT MAX,SRT8,SRT SUPER BEE. Lets count...that totals 9 model choices. Taurus Front wheel drive offers..SE, SEL\, Limited and SHO...total 4 models.

 

Trims do not equal models. More trims does not guarantee more sales, they simply give buyers more options and cut a wider price swath for individual models.

 

For example, the Charger's "RT Plus" trim only adds chrome wheels and leather / heated / power seats and a spoiler. Hardly a new model.

[bobbyd]

And none of that is at all relevant to whether or not they are competitors to one another.

 

The Camaro comes in RS, SS, and ZL1 trims. The Mustang comes in V6, GT, GT-CS, Boss 302, and GT500 trims. 5 vs 3. Are they not competitors because of that?

 

I give up. I don't even know what point Bobby is trying to make other than "Taurus is great!".

I also give up. However, I was trying to imply that when the competitor word was used and Impala ($10,000 cheaper) was mentioned...it made no sense. Its like saying the Cruz is a competitor to the Taurus. Apples to Apples. As far as the Charger....9 different model choices does help...and then add police cars on top of that! As far as Camaro versus Mustang....they are equal in sales....the Ford Boss and GT 500 are very low volume sellers. But...Yes: Taurus is great!

[akirby]

I also give up. However, I was trying to imply that when the competitor word was used and Impala ($10,000 cheaper) was mentioned...it made no sense. Its like saying the Cruz is a competitor to the Taurus. Apples to Apples. As far as the Charger....9 different model choices does help...and then add police cars on top of that! As far as Camaro versus Mustang....they are equal in sales....the Ford Boss and GT 500 are very low volume sellers. But...Yes: Taurus is great!

 

Bobby - the iphone may sell 100 times as many units as a windows 8 phone but they're still competitors. Full sized sedans are full sized sedans and as such they compete against each other for sales. They may not compete well but they are in the same market segment. Impala is GMs full sized sedan entry. Taurus is Ford's full sized sedan entry. It's that simple.

[bobbyd]

Trims do not equal models. More trims does not guarantee more sales, they simply give buyers more options and cut a wider price swath for individual models.

 

For example, the Charger's "RT Plus" trim only adds chrome wheels and leather / heated / power seats and a spoiler. Hardly a new model.

You said it...it gives them more options to buy. For example..the Taurus buyer is LIMITED in buying options. If I wanted a color key grill to match the paint on an SEL , I have to buy the more expensive Limited ($3500 more than the SEL). I had to buy a different model to get the grill difference. Remember, the 9 Charger vehicles are considered models...in order to get the trim...you buy the model. Same with Ford...you buy the Limited MODEL to get the colored grill...and even a cargo net is not available unless you buy the limited. The trims come with the different models!

[bobbyd]

Bobby - the iphone may sell 100 times as many units as a windows 8 phone but they're still competitors. Full sized sedans are full sized sedans and as such they compete against each other for sales. They may not compete well but they are in the same market segment. Impala is GMs full sized sedan entry. Taurus is Ford's full sized sedan entry. It's that simple.

OK! maybe I should have said...direct competitors.....maybe that would help. I understand! No arguing! Simple is good!

[NickF1011]

I also give up. However, I was trying to imply that when the competitor word was used and Impala ($10,000 cheaper) was mentioned...it made no sense. Its like saying the Cruz is a competitor to the Taurus. Apples to Apples. As far as the Charger....9 different model choices does help...and then add police cars on top of that! As far as Camaro versus Mustang....they are equal in sales....the Ford Boss and GT 500 are very low volume sellers. But...Yes: Taurus is great!

 

There is pleeeeeeeenty of overlap in pricing between the Impala and Taurus. And why would you compare the Cruze to the Taurus? They aren't in the same class. Apples to apples, as you say. Moving on.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Well, that was weird. :do what:

 

Glad everyone else said what I was gonna say... so that I wouldn't have to mention that these vehicles:

A8, A8L, A8L W12, S8

740i, 740Li, 750i, 750Li, 760Li, ActiveHybrid7, ActiveHybrid 7 L, ALPINA B7, Alpina B7 L (plus xDrive models)

S400 Hybrid, S400 BLUETEC, S550, S600, S63 AMG, S65 AMG (plus 4MATIC models)

LS460, LS460 L, LS600h L (plus AWD models)

 

don't compete at all since they don't have the same number of models per line.

 

Oops, I mentioned it.

 

(ETA: I miss the old smileys...)

Edited January 4, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva

[FordFanForEver]

Hey Bobby,

 

I would buy a Taurus over the new Fusion. Ford came a long way when developing the 2nd gen Fusion. However, I would buy a Taurus because I like the ride of a full size sedan, the looks of it, and the name!

[bobbyd]

Hey Bobby,

 

I would buy a Taurus over the new Fusion. Ford came a long way when developing the 2nd gen Fusion. However, I would buy a Taurus because I like the ride of a full size sedan, the looks of it, and the name!

Thanks for your support. It seems that the most negative detractors don't even drive Fords (Chrysler Fiat , Pontiac-Nissan Owners) and yet they are so-called Blue Forum members. Whatever! I'm like you...Ford Fan Forever! I've always owned them and always will! Thanks again!

[papilgee4evaeva]

Thanks for your support. It seems that the most negative detractors don't even drive Fords (Chrysler Fiat , Pontiac-Nissan Owners) and yet they are so-called Blue Forum members. Whatever! I'm like you...Ford Fan Forever! I've always owned them and always will! Thanks again!

I resemble that bolded remark. Don't know what makes me a detractor...

 

If I were looking to buy something tomorrow and had about $47K lying around. a Taurus SHO would be in my top two. Guaranteed.

[Anthony]

Thanks for your support. It seems that the most negative detractors don't even drive Fords (Chrysler Fiat , Pontiac-Nissan Owners) and yet they are so-called Blue Forum members. Whatever! I'm like you...Ford Fan Forever! I've always owned them and always will! Thanks again!

People that don't agree with you are not negative detractors. The just don't share your opinion. You think I've been hanging around here since 2001 for the coffee?

 

P.S. I've owned more Fords then most, so please don't go the "my blood runs blue" route. Just because I don't own a Ford today, does not mean I am a "so-called" anything. That's just a cheap way of trying to derail someone else's opinion. It doesn't work.

[jpd80]

Total 2012 production figures in from Hermosillo - US and other markets:

Fusion - 284,881

MKZ - 20,355

Total - 305, 236 ---- that includes upgrades and change of product cycle.

 

Total 2012 production figures in from Cuaititan - US and other markets:

Fiesta - 138,926.... so there's a lot more units being delivered to Latin America than the USA, maybe that's about to change.

[Hugh]

IMHO, the Fusion doesn't require a V6 when the EB20 is available. It's more powerful and fuel efficient then the outgoing D30. The D30 is not as good as the D35 and the improved D35 is even better. That said, The D30 is no slouch in it's own right.

[jpd80]

IMHO, the Fusion doesn't require a V6 when the EB20 is available. It's more powerful and fuel efficient then the outgoing D30. The D30 is not as good as the D35 and the improved D35 is even better. That said, The D30 is no slouch in it's own right.

The need for a V6 is really not there, last model it was around 20% split across D30 and D35,

Ford clearly thinks that the 2.0 EB can cover 99% of that need..

and with CAFE looming large, who can blame them..

[Hugh]

The need for a V6 is really not there, last model it was around 20% split across D30 and D35,

Ford clearly thinks that the 2.0 EB can cover 99% of that need..

and with CAFE looming large, who can blame them..

I mean there's a 2012 Fusion on the lot close to my place. SEL, AWD, Mono-Sport Appearance pkg, D30 w/S/S, Tuxedo Black/Charcoal Leather, Moon and Tunes w/SYNC and Nav. Excellent car but languishing because the '13's are here. Anyone wanting a new car for cheap this is the one for you. That said, how hard is it to swap engines for a Ti-VCT D35? Cheap thrills indeed!

[bobbyd]

People that don't agree with you are not negative detractors. The just don't share your opinion. You think I've been hanging around here since 2001 for the coffee?

 

P.S. I've owned more Fords then most, so please don't go the "my blood runs blue" route. Just because I don't own a Ford today, does not mean I am a "so-called" anything. That's just a cheap way of trying to derail someone else's opinion. It doesn't work.

 

So, why are you buying our competitors vehicles?

Edited January 5, 2013 by bobbyd

[FordFanForEver]

IMHO, the Fusion doesn't require a V6 when the EB20 is available. It's more powerful and fuel efficient then the outgoing D30. The D30 is not as good as the D35 and the improved D35 is even better. That said, The D30 is no slouch in it's own right.

 

It was no slouch in the Fusion/Milian but was a slouch in the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle. Still love our Ford Five.

[Anthony]

So, why are you buying our competitors vehicles?

 

 

Because Ford doesn't sell a minivan. Thought that was pretty obvious. The 20+ Fords (and many other brands as well) I've owned before that give me a pretty good baseline of how to converse about Fords and their competitors.

 

Does that make my opinion any less valid?

 

I've been lucky enough to belong to this board for 12 years through owning Fords as well as other manufacturer's vehicles. Through the ridiculous times of "Sheriff" and the BON legal drama with Ford. The majority of the people I've met through those years don't give two hoots what you drive as long as you bring something intelligent to the conversation. I've also conversed with plenty of Ford owners in that time that brought nothing intelligent to the conversation.

 

Which one are you?

Edited January 5, 2013 by Intrepidatious

[jpd80]

Next Gen Ecoboost 2.3 on new variable architecture will seal the V6's fate in a lot of mainstream product.

Ford's goals are to achieve similar performance with the 2.3 EB but with 25% fuel economy improvement.

While that level of fuel economy may or may not be important to buyers, it's vital in tighter CAFE limits.

Edited January 5, 2013 by jpd80

[BORG]

With the 2.0L EB in my Escape, I see no problems giving up the V6, that's an amazing power plant! But if it's available, I will opt for the V6 regardless.

[Extreme4x4]

Because Ford doesn't sell a minivan. Thought that was pretty obvious. The 20+ Fords (and many other brands as well) I've owned before that give me a pretty good baseline of how to converse about Fords and their competitors.

 

Does that make my opinion any less valid?

 

I've been lucky enough to belong to this board for 12 years through owning Fords as well as other manufacturer's vehicles. Through the ridiculous times of "Sheriff" and the BON legal drama with Ford. The majority of the people I've met through those years don't give two hoots what you drive as long as you bring something intelligent to the conversation. I've also conversed with plenty of Ford owners in that time that brought nothing intelligent to the conversation.

 

Which one are you?

I agree with this 150%

 

When you were asked why you don't drive a Ford, I looked at what you have, and it was glaringly obvious. Plus, you buy what is best for yourself, your money, and your family. Who gives two hoots what other people think. When they spend their own money, they can do so as they please.

 

I signed up on Motortrend.com again (after an almost 2 year hiatus) because of a thread on the Explorer Sport. I have basically been told that I am poor, and cannot afford a real vehicle (read X5, Cayenne, Q7) because I bought the Sport. Needless to say, I refuse to speak to people who are brand snobs and intolerant stereotypers.

 

That doesn't belong on this site either.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I agree with this 150%

 

When you were asked why you don't drive a Ford, I looked at what you have, and it was glaringly obvious. Plus, you buy what is best for yourself, your money, and your family. Who gives two hoots what other people think. When they spend their own money, they can do so as they please.

 

I signed up on Motortrend.com again (after an almost 2 year hiatus) because of a thread on the Explorer Sport. I have basically been told that I am poor, and cannot afford a real vehicle (read X5, Cayenne, Q7) because I bought the Sport. Needless to say, I refuse to speak to people who are brand snobs and intolerant stereotypers.

 

That doesn't belong on this site either.

YOU HAVE CHEVIES AND A GMC IN YOUR SIGNATURE!!!!! WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE, YA TRAITOR??!!??!!??!!??!!

 

:fear:

Edited January 6, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva

[RichardJensen]

cannot afford a real vehicle (read X5, Cayenne, Q7)

 

Um. Yeah. According to guys driving 15 year old Nissans that smell like old Hardees and B.O., not quite covered up by copious dousings of Axe Body Spray, Car Edition.

[Ron W.]

Um. Yeah. According to guys driving 15 year old Nissans that smell like old Hardees and B.O., not quite covered up by copious dousings of Axe Body Spray, Car Edition.

 

 

Hey be nice I drive a 15 year old F150 with 200k on the clock and no major repairs, no blown out spark plugs, and it doesn't smell like old Hardees....... stale cigarettes yes, but Hardees no ------- lol

[Anthony]

Um. Yeah. According to guys driving 15 year old Nissans that smell like old Hardees and B.O., not quite covered up by copious dousings of Axe Body Spray, Car Edition.

 

I actually laughed out loud at that. Ha!