ghent360 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) My observations on FFH with 4k miles: 47MPG is easily achievable on long trips (20+ miles) your engine is warm most of the way and you get the most of the hybrid system. We do regular trips to LA - 60 miles one way and get 47+ MPG. Oddly enough I get better MPG when there is heavy traffic in LA. Something about stop and go traffic makes the MPG really good. One time I got 52 MPG on a 65 mile trip. The car get terrible MPG when cold. So short tips of 1-2 miles will cost you. Same for cold weather - it takes longer for the engine to warm up, so you can use the start/stop thing. A one mile trip when cold would gives me 12MPG - no kidding. A 3 mile trip when cold gives 27MPG. So if you are doing many short trips consider a plugin or pure electric car. City traffic lights also kill your MPG. The torque from the electric motor is not enough, so the car starts the engine when accelerating from the traffic light, only to kill it when you begin breaking for the next red light. Stop and go traffic on the highway is different because you are slowly crawling in EV mode. I tried accelerating only in EV mode from a traffic light, but it's way too slow and I fear on the third stop there will be a lynch mob setting my car on fire. Edited February 10, 2013 by ghent360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm sure most drivers figure out what hurts and helps get you the MPG you're getting. It takes time for people to learn, some are very quick at this and some will never figure out what works the best. An important issue about hybrids is understanding both engine and battery management. I drive my '09 FEH to maximize both engine charging for EV use, while maintaining the battery in a SOC range that will stay charged for EV driving. For instance, the most efficient SOC for charging is to maintain the HV battery SOC between 42% - 46%. Going below 42% SOC, you risk a engine start to recharge the battery. Above 46%, charging the battery gets slower using the engine with the generator. The engine uses more fuel charging a low SOC because the battery is allowing a faster charge by the generator. As the battery goes to a higher charge, the engine MPG increases. You see this when the battery is full at highway speeds. The reason a hybrid gets higher MPG, is EV and engine Assist. Engine Assist allows a smaller engine with less power and better MPG. Using engine assist will lower MPG because the engine must use the generator to replaced the SOC you just used. For this reason, I rarely use engine assist in my FEH. The best way to warm your battery is to charge it. Leaving the battery full when you park at night will not allow much charging during a cold start in the morning. The battery is most efficient at around 78 F, so the faster you get that battery to 78F the better. I use the faster charging of a low SOC with the generator and also use slight brake pedal for additional regen with the traction motor to warm-up my battery in cold weather. A Pulse & Glide with a slight brake pedal glide gets my battery warm the fastest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggnutts Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I got my first 47.5mpg trip today in 50F weather on about 10 miles. Woohoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermans Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 On my return trip home this AM I got 59.2 mpg. I went just over 5 miles and the war was warmed up. Getting there I got 45.2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadole Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Still hovering around 30 MPG lifetime.... almost 5000 miles on the car... Ford says it is normal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggnutts Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I just scooted over the 1000 mile mark and my lifetime average is 35.4. It's a game with me to see that go up a tenth of a mile every day. I never go over 60mph any more. And when no cars are behind me, I use a feather touch on the gas starting out from a light to keep it in ev mode as long as I can. I'll be surprised if I get to 47mpg lifetime avg anytime soon after a winter full of very cold day driving, but at least I know it's possible with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 My trips are usually short and they vary quite a lot. Took a trip to the grocery store today; was 28mpg going there and 62mpg coming back. On my second tank of fuel now (the first tank that I put in myself) and so far on that tank my average is hovering around 38mpg. I work in a populated area and if I don't accelerate quickly enough in traffic it's not pretty. I'm finding it is those heavy accelerations that are eating up most of my average. Still, this is about the same overall mileage I got in my Prius, so I'm not losing anything. I am hoping to continue to figure out ways to do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I got my first 47.5mpg trip today in 50F weather on about 10 miles. Woohoo! 60 degree weather on the way home today, I think it was 40 in the morning and got 49.7 on the way to work, figured that the drive home would be warmer/better... and got caught in traffic as a 'bonus' which gave some better MPG. Trip home 55.4MPG, bringing the lifetime now up to 44.8... love the mild weather. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggnutts Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 If we are getting this good in milder temps with 10% ethanol, then maybe there is hope when summer brings the better gas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 If we are getting this good in milder temps with 10% ethanol, then maybe there is hope when summer brings the better gas! There was a post in this thread or another that pointed out the factor that wind and rain were... two nights ago I came home on a 16-mile route and MPG was 49.7... last night with the same route but 10 degrees colder and raining and about a 10MPH wind (not even a direct headwind, but it was steady rain), with the same route it was 39.5, so my lifetime had made it to 45.0 but has since dipped back to 44.9. So whoever made the post about the effect of the wind/rain seems to be pretty accurate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanner83 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Makes total sense right.... I mean environmental conditions affect any car, regardless of hybrid or not. Same as the route that you travel, I mean if your going uphill of course your going to expend more gas than going downhill. I will be interested to follow this thread once I receive my MKZ. I did sign up for Fuelly so am ready to track MPG. One quick question, when you reset trip A or trip B that does not reset Lifetime right? You have to go someplace else to reset that correct? Also have you guys noticed yet the EV+ kick on for you guys? If that really works that is pretty impressive I think for a car to learn your routes and make calculations to improve MPG based upon those routes. I do have to say though I am worried about performance come summer time in Phoenix. I have read some pretty bad stories about Volt's and Leaf's not doing well here in the Valley of the Sun. Batteries not retaining full charge, etc.. Edited February 14, 2013 by tanner83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionHybrid2013 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I decided to do a little mileage test on my way into work this morning. I decided to separate my normal drive into work into two segments (I just stopped my car to get separate mpg read outs). On my way to work, my mpg starts out bad until a certain point where it bottoms out and then from that point on it gets better and better until I get to work. I beleive this is due to the combination of the engine warming up as well as less uphill terrain as I get closer to work. Here is what I found. Temperature - 28 degrees Total miles driven - 36 Total mpg - 45.3mpg First section (bad mileage portion of my daily commute) Total miles driven - 12.6 Total mpg - 30.7mpg Second section (good mileage portion of my daily commute) Total miles driven - 23.4 Total mpg - 61mpg This was pretty much what I expected. There was a difference of 30.3mpg between the two segments of my commute. Getting 61mpg over a 23.4 mile span does look nice on paper. If only I could start my commute there with my car warmed up... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Makes total sense right.... I mean environmental conditions affect any car, regardless of hybrid or not. Same as the route that you travel, I mean if your going uphill of course your going to expend more gas than going downhill. I will be interested to follow this thread once I receive my MKZ. I did sign up for Fuelly so am ready to track MPG. One quick question, when you reset trip A or trip B that does not reset Lifetime right? You have to go someplace else to reset that correct? Also have you guys noticed yet the EV+ kick on for you guys? If that really works that is pretty impressive I think for a car to learn your routes and make calculations to improve MPG based upon those routes. I do have to say though I am worried about performance come summer time in Phoenix. I have read some pretty bad stories about Volt's and Leaf's not doing well here in the Valley of the Sun. Batteries not retaining full charge, etc.. I reset Trip 1 with each fillup, have never touched Trip 2. So my lifetime has never been reset, started at 27 when I took delivery from the dealer, is now at 45.0. It took 6 days IIRC for the EV+ to 'find' my house and now it does it every day. I took about 2 weeks for it to 'find' my office, and now does that each day too. Yup the cold weather will affect the MPG for the worse, and the really hot weather will do the same and from my experience the really hot gives about an equal hit as the really cold... so Spring and Fall are great for me, I guess Nov-Feb will be your good times in VOTS and you will see the lower MPGs in the really hot stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 It took 6 days IIRC for the EV+ to 'find' my house and now it does it every day. I took about 2 weeks for it to 'find' my office, and now does that each day too. When I read this I got a mental picture of your car wandering around the neighborhood, confused and lost........ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 For me I've been getting pretty mixed results. Depends on the outside temperature, climate control and how long the trip is. For me it feels like the ICE is incredibly inefficient... How could I be getting 12+ L/100KM in slow traffic with the ICE on when a Nissan Altima who's ICE is always on gets 9L/100 KM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neod192 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 For me I've been getting pretty mixed results. Depends on the outside temperature, climate control and how long the trip is. For me it feels like the ICE is incredibly inefficient... How could I be getting 12+ L/100KM in slow traffic with the ICE on when a Nissan Altima who's ICE is always on gets 9L/100 KM? The engine in the Fusion Hybrid works overtime when it runs. It usually runs at higher RPMs because it has to also charge the battery, not just drive the car. I believe the engine is most efficient at those higher RPMs too, it's just a different kind of engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryG Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 The engine in the Fusion Hybrid works overtime when it runs. It usually runs at higher RPMs because it has to also charge the battery, not just drive the car. I believe the engine is most efficient at those higher RPMs too, it's just a different kind of engine A big problem with Ford's 2010 and newer Hybrids is they went to an electric A/C compressor. This should be fine with a plug-in battery to recharge, but relying on the engine to charge the battery with the eCVT generator will kill MPG with the cabin A/C or running the defroster with that electric compressor. There is also no way the power steering, power brakes and the 12V battery system to be maintained charged without the engine charging the HV battery. So everything running the vehicle has to come from the engine and regen braking. Add the headlights for night, and wipers for rain and snow, and there is where you're really draining that battery and causing the engine to turn that generator to keep the battery charged. Also, did you know there is an electric coolant pump running to cool the DC/DC converter and eCVT? When you are in EV, an electric heater pump takes over to provide heat to the cabin, even if the heater is not On. Don't dare use electric motor Assist on top of all this because the engine will be working overtime burning gas. My '09 FEH was the last year with a belt driven A/C compressor and I have no plans on buying a non plug-in hybrid with an electric A/C compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggnutts Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I get ev+ on the final downhill stretch to home. May an 8th of a mile. I never get it on the way to work, whose final 10th mile is a steep uphill. I do get ev+ in the work parking lot while searching for a parking spot. I'm amazed at a 61mpg trip! I've never come close to that. I've found that the ev engine will not kick in unless the car is warmed up. Climate control won't turn the fan on either until it can blow warm air, which is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdgallo68 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Does the weather truly effect the operation of the hybrid to that degree? I live in a very cold climate area. Mountainious terrain and long winters! I was really leaning towards the purchase of a hybid. I can't always be sure that the car will be garaged, in bad weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmadole Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Does the weather truly effect the operation of the hybrid to that degree? I live in a very cold climate area. Mountainious terrain and long winters! I was really leaning towards the purchase of a hybid. I can't always be sure that the car will be garaged, in bad weather. I live in Northern Michigan and my ford fusion hybrid is at 30 mpg lifetime .... Cold weather and winter gas = low 30 mpg all winter long .. Add standing snow and your in the mid 20's ... True story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Today we did the same trip; I drove both ways since my husband has a broken foot. Up the mountain averaged about 32 mpg and coming back down averaged about 52, so about 42 mpg overall. That's not bad, considering that this time on the way back I drove faster and worked more to keep up with traffic than I had the time before. What I'm starting to realize is that this car will do very well on extended drives. Short trips, not as well. Still, this is not any worse mileage than I got in my Prius, overall. I'm a happy camper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosCA Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 By far my most efficient drive: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 The engine in the Fusion Hybrid works overtime when it runs. It usually runs at higher RPMs because it has to also charge the battery, not just drive the car. I believe the engine is most efficient at those higher RPMs too, it's just a different kind of engine Hmmm maybe for longer drives but for shorter ones it just wasting its gas... I guess people have to look at whole tanks with this car rather than trip MPG numbers which have been pretty bad for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmcelhinney Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 There are a bunch of reasons why you would get much worse gas mileage in the cold. Your battery will be depleted more definitely. You turn on the heat. The engine is cold so the tolerances are tighter. The engine being cold is more than likely why people who take short trips are getting horrible gas mileage out and good when they come back (if it hasn't been too long). Also realize that all of the oil is sitting in the pan and when the engine is cold it is tighter causing more friction. I personally always let my present car (elantra) warm up a bunch before I drive it. Otherwise it gets really bad mileage even once it is warm. If my car ever arrives I will probably still let my car warm up in the winter. I don't take too many short drives either. -Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 By far my most efficient drive: mileage 2.JPG I had a similar one today. Shorter, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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