theoldwizard Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 IMHO, Ford is missing a "golden opportunity" in Medium Duty. They could become the first OEM to offer a factory CNG option. ! At the moment, CNG prices (at least in some states) are BELOW $2.00 GGE ! Ford could do a "factory" CNG F650/750 in less than a year. Some minor changes to the intake manifold (mounting bosses for the CNG injectors), fuel line, brackets, tank, pressure regulator, "over lay" wiring harness, a couple of extra sensor and actuators (fuel related) and some simple software changes and they would be done. If they really want companies beating down the door to put orders in, add a tall deck (8.0+L) to the Godzilla to make up for any power loss and WOW ! A CNG version of a Transit would be a bit more challenging (mounting location for the tank), but the Amazon "bean counter" would put an order in so fast, they would have to add another shift ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) Freightliner currently offers class 6/7 mediums with the Cummins L9G CNG engine. My company has 100's. Ford has stated they are not interested in offering 'factory' CNG vehicles, but work with many upfitters like Landi-Renzo under their QVM program. Landi is currently working on a CNG 7.3L that if certified will be available in the F-450 to 750 (I know people involved in that project). I believe the CNG 7.3L will be dedicated CNG, and the injectors will go into gasoline injector locations in the head. https://freightliner.com/trucks/m2-112-natural-gas/ https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/02/20200213-landi.html Edited March 2, 2020 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Freightliner currently offers class 6/7 mediums with the Cummins L9G CNG engine. My company has 100's. Ford has stated they are not interested in offering 'factory' CNG vehicles, but work with many upfitters like Landi-Renzo under their QVM program. Landi is currently working on a CNG 7.3L that if certified will be available in the F-450 to 750 (I know people involved in that project). I believe the CNG 7.3L will be dedicated CNG, and the injectors will go into gasoline injector locations in the head. https://freightliner.com/trucks/m2-112-natural-gas/ https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/02/20200213-landi.html But Landi-Renzo does this at their Calif. facility right? So right off the bat, you have a truck built in Ohio that you are going to ship to west coast and then potentially back to customer on east coast? Seems like if CNG is as viable as Ol wiz says, Ford is starting off with a significant cost disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Landi does offer ship-through. I believe they have locations near KTP and Avon Lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 9:54 PM, Bob Rosadini said: I do believe air brakes are on the horizon. Now why would they NOT be available now? Good question. Air on same chassis with a Power Stroke. You don't think Ford would do something to encourage buyers to favor the more more costly 6.7?? Nah. Can't believe they would be releasing the 7.3 without adequate compressor mounting points. On 2/29/2020 at 12:24 AM, 7Mary3 said: I was looking at a 7.3L out of a truck (250-350 I assume) and I couldn't clearly see were they would mount a compressor. The timing cover has integral brackets for the belt tensioner and idler pulleys, maybe with a different front cover they could mount a compressor. I figure most 7.3L's would be in <26,000# GVW F-650's with juice brakes anyway. Well fellas...looks like Ford has heard you.... https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/03/03/ford-marks-35-years-of-commercial-vehicle-leadership.html Quote Air power offered for Medium Duty Ford sold more of its biggest work trucks last year than it has since 1997. Sales of F-650 and F-750 are up 37 percent year-over-year, with total volume of 16,510 trucks for 2019. Building on this momentum, Ford further enhances the versatility of its Medium Duty trucks for model year 2022 with a new option for the available 7.3-liter gas engine. For the first time, an integrated air compressor will be available for the 7.3-liter engine. The compressor can be used to power air brakes, air suspension and other accessories like air horns or air ride seats. Currently, air brakes are only available on diesel-powered trucks. Ford is the only manufacturer offering a choice of gasoline or diesel engine for Class 6-7 conventional cab trucks – its 7.3-liter gas V8 or updated 6.7-liter Power Stroke diesel V8. Ford Medium Duty trucks with the 7.3-liter gas engine can cost up to $9,245*** less than those with the 6.7-liter diesel. They are recommended for applications with lighter duty cycles, annual mileage and torque requirements. Adding the air compressor to the 7.3-liter engine lets customers combine the cost savings of a gasoline powertrain with the stopping power of air brakes. “We expect this new offering to be popular in several vocational segments including propane delivery, municipalities, utilities and tree service,” explains Nathan Oscarson, Ford commercial truck brand manager. “Many customers have told us they’d like to take advantage of the cost savings provided by a gas truck, but they also want the peace of mind provided by air brakes.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, twintornados said: Well fellas...looks like Ford has heard you.... https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/03/03/ford-marks-35-years-of-commercial-vehicle-leadership.html THX TT! Work Truck Show opens today so no more secrets! Don't understand though why they are delaying air brakes until 2022 though. But it will be a big factor in 650/750 sales gain numbers One other thing-curious where the F-600 order guides are? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 That's good. Notice the scalloped engine cover for the E-series? The very much smaller externally 7.3L probably made that possible. The 7.3L CNG prep package is probably only hard valve seats and better valves, but is necessary for the upfitters to convert the engine to CNG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: That's good. Notice the scalloped engine cover for the E-series? The very much smaller externally 7.3L probably made that possible. The 7.3L CNG prep package is probably only hard valve seats and better valves, but is necessary for the upfitters to convert the engine to CNG. Might be easier to just add the upgraded MD spec 7.3 for gas prep packages.... Edited March 3, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Looks like my guess of an all-electric Transit for Avon Lake was true after all: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/03/03/ford-to-offer-all-electric-transit.html That means the midsize EVs for Flat Rock are still a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 I'm a little confused. After hastily reading about the all-electric Transit, I see no mention of a company called Motiv which is powering this Collins Ford E450 electric school bus. So what's powering the Transit? Did I miss it? Electric School Bus | All-Electric Bus for Sale | Collins Bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Joe771476 said: I'm a little confused. After hastily reading about the all-electric Transit, I see no mention of a company called Motiv which is powering this Collins Ford E450 electric school bus. So what's powering the Transit? Did I miss it? Electric School Bus | All-Electric Bus for Sale | Collins Bus You are up on buses Joe- any clue what the cost difference is on that electric vs a gas e450? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Thx again to Ice Capades. New order guide for 350-600 chassis cabs now posted (3/02/20) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 On 3/5/2020 at 8:27 AM, Bob Rosadini said: You are up on buses Joe- any clue what the cost difference is on that electric vs a gas e450? Not sure Bob, but you can bet it's more for the INITIAL purchase, but cost savings will hopefully offset it. Less moving parts, no oil changes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Too bad this kind of pride couldn't find its way to the USA! 8) Ford Truck Yakıt Testi - Hed Akademi - YouTube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Too bad this kind of pride couldn't find its way to the USA! 8) Ford Truck Yakıt Testi - Hed Akademi - YouTube I'd settle for the 9 liter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 According to a fire mag, Lynnfield MA fire dept. is still using a 1984 C-series pumper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 2:21 PM, 7Mary3 said: Ford has stated they are not interested in offering 'factory' CNG vehicles, but work with many upfitters like Landi-Renzo under their QVM program. I worked in the CNG industry a few years back (when it looked like CNG was going to have a BIG impact on the light duty market). I was somewhat familiar with ALL of he suppliers ("Know they enemy/competition") and Landi-Renzo was one of the lower tier supplier (not a QVM at that time) ! Most of the other upfitters bailed out of light duty once the oil industry figured out how to frack for oil and not just gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/9/2020 at 4:25 PM, Joe771476 said: Too bad this kind of pride couldn't find its way to the USA! 8) Ford Truck Yakıt Testi - Hed Akademi - YouTube Internal to Ford, if you are not working directly on a EV or a Hybrid program, you are "chop liver" ! No career future. If you are working on a current model year program making sure it keeps cranking out product (i.e. lining up alternative tooling and nmanufacturing for Chinese plants) you are slightly above that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, theoldwizard said: I worked in the CNG industry a few years back (when it looked like CNG was going to have a BIG impact on the light duty market). I was somewhat familiar with ALL of he suppliers ("Know they enemy/competition") and Landi-Renzo was one of the lower tier supplier (not a QVM at that time) ! Most of the other upfitters bailed out of light duty once the oil industry figured out how to frack for oil and not just gas. CNG in light duty is all but dead, even in So. Cal., and Landi is the only current CARB compliant upfitter to my knowledge. Most of their business seems to be utility and municipal fleet. Medium/heavy is a much different story, many CNG Freightliners, Kenworths, and Autocars not only in municipal/utility but in private fleets as well. No comment on Landi's quality or customer service......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 22 hours ago, Joe771476 said: According to a fire mag, Lynnfield MA fire dept. is still using a 1984 C-series pumper! Joe-Yes- surprisingly they took this "in service" truck to the ATCA Bay State Chapter show last fall. Never would guess its age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 21, 2020 Author Share Posted March 21, 2020 Some interesting articles: I didn't know Amazon was buying Transits too. Amazon's van-buying spree delivers a gift to auto industry These are heavy/tractors. Navistar to start work on new order of postal trucks in Springfield Oshkosh Ford is still in the running. Workhorse/Hackney Mail Truck Bidding Team Breaks Up | Trucks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Combined February sales of Ford class 4 to 8 were flat compared to February 2019, a good result considering most brands seeing significant drops in sales. As for Ford, big drops in class 6 & 7 being offset by increases in class 4 while class 5 holds steady. Class 5 is over 50% of sales and, Classes 4 & 5 are 7/8ths of all sales so it's clear that Class 6 & 7 gasoline buyers are holding off for the 7.3 V8 Edited March 21, 2020 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Combined February sales of Ford class 4 to 8 were flat compared to February 2019, a good result considering most brands seeing significant drops in sales. As for Ford, big drops in class 6 & 7 being offset by increases in class 4 while class 5 holds steady. Class 5 is over 50% of sales and, Classes 4 & 5 are 7/8ths of all sales so it's clear that Class 6 & 7 gasoline buyers are holding off for the 7.3 V8 Local dealer has a 650 V-8 on lot. Wheel base suggests set up for a 5-7 yd dump as it also has electric to rear. This dealer is new to mediums and currently has 2 750 dump chassis (Power Strokes, air) and two 650's 2019 V-10 and the 2021 V-8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 HDT magazine goofed on their truck sales report for Jan 2020! Did you know Freightliner sold no class 6 thru 8 trucks but sold a bunch of class 3 thru 5?!! Ford had a 38 percent marketshare in class8!! The info is one line off. But trying to compensate, it APPEARS that Hino did Indeed as I predicted pass Ford in class 7. However it APPEARS that Ford is still ahead of Hino in class 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 By the way, is Ford shutting medium duty operations at Avon Lake, while the other mfrs. are still pumping out mediums? Not too smart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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