BrewfanGRB Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 You know, I noticed that and thought the MKZ might be higher than the other two, but didn't realize 83" was that tall haha. Yes, according the Lincoln.com, the FWD MKZ is 58.2" high and the AWD and Hybrid MKZs are 58.1" high, so about an inch taller than the A6, and 2 inches taller than the A4 So it's totally in line with an A6 but priced like an A4. Honestly, I LIKE that. We really, really need to move away from this "it's a tarted up Fusion". New people that Ford wants to bring in aren't going to be so car nuts to self-identify that...or care. And providing a way for Ford-loyal to move up means those buyers aren't going to be bogged down by it being on the same platform as the Fusion. An A6 buyer who still buys the A6 is buying it because they want an Audi because it's an Audi. An MKZ is never going to have the same dynamics as an Audi anything. But it doesn't have to! Ford can sell a vehicle electronics and features expected in the entry luxury market, for a competitive price and Ford can still turn top of the line profits. That. is. all. that. matters. Period. Profit. This is Wolf's first attempt---with time, he'll do better and better and more to differentiate Lincolns from their Ford mates. I'm excited for the MKC. I'm a ways away from being able to afford it, but I would gladly entertain an MKC over an Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is Wolf's first attempt Let us also remember that it was a very late attempt at that, likely with much of the sheet metal and interior already pretty much locked in. MKC is looking to be more differentiated, and should really be used as the guage for what to expect moving forward. I'm excited for it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Let us also remember that it was a very late attempt at that, likely with much of the sheet metal and interior already pretty much locked in. MKC is looking to be more differentiated, and should really be used as the guage for what to expect moving forward. I'm excited for it as well. Well, we've seen the MKC already so we know what's going on there. Overall, a competent but otherwise unremarkable design. The MKZ is actually a more standout design. Lincoln is fairly limited by it's Ford underpinnings, they are just skinning a Ford, not creating a totally new tophat. Fortunately the Fusion has an extraordinary architecture upon which to design something special. Edited June 19, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well, we've seen the MKC already so we know what's going on there. Overall, a competent but otherwise unremarkable design. The MKZ is actually a more standout design. Lincoln is fairly limited by it's Ford underpinnings, they are just skinning a Ford, not creating a totally new tophat. Fortunately the Fusion has an extraordinary architecture upon which to design something special. All your opinion, of course. But, no, none of us have seen the production MKC yet. From what we have seen of it, I think it's far more striking than the MKZ, particularly in the side sculping. And from what I recall, you weren't exactly a huge fan of the Escape at first either, so of course you're not going to like the MKC as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Saying that Ford is not putting a new tophat on the MKZ is a classic example of: 1 - taking a somewhat ill-defined industry term 2 - adopting the narrowest possible interpretation of it 3 - insisting that this narrow, self-defined interpretation is the only correct interpretation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Saying that Ford is not putting a new tophat on the MKZ is a classic example of: 1 - taking a somewhat ill-defined industry term 2 - adopting the narrowest possible interpretation of it 3 - insisting that this narrow, self-defined interpretation is the only correct interpretation. AKA a BORGism. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Saying that Ford is not putting a new tophat on the MKZ is a classic example of: 1 - taking a somewhat ill-defined industry term 2 - adopting the narrowest possible interpretation of it 3 - insisting that this narrow, self-defined interpretation is the only correct interpretation. You're right, Lincoln's crack engineering team took a platform, re-eingineered it completely with new engineering hardpoints, and viola, the MKZ is born. Explains why it took so long! Edited June 19, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well, we've seen the MKC already so we know what's going on there. Overall, a competent but otherwise unremarkable design. The MKZ is actually a more standout design. Lincoln is fairly limited by it's Ford underpinnings, they are just skinning a Ford, not creating a totally new tophat. Fortunately the Fusion has an extraordinary architecture upon which to design something special. huh?...how can you say that?...if the underpinnings are world class who gives a rats...so I guess Audi was limited, Lexus was limited, anyone thats utized a chassis for a car and SUV/ CUV was limited....I dont think they are limited in the slightest, the Z is the biggest step yet, and I beleive Lincoln will CONTINUE to ramp things up....but to NOT utilize proven components and underpinnings is plain stupid...........why spend BILLIONS on being hellbent on differentiation when one has acess to world class componentry right in front of their nose...unless of course you are Jaguar....look what happened to them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) huh?...how can you say that?...if the underpinnings are world class who gives a rats...so I guess Audi was limited, Lexus was limited, anyone thats utized a chassis for a car and SUV/ CUV was limited....I dont think they are limited in the slightest, the Z is the biggest step yet, and I beleive Lincoln will CONTINUE to ramp things up....but to NOT utilize proven components and underpinnings is plain stupid...........why spend BILLIONS on being hellbent on differentiation when one has acess to world class componentry right in front of their nose...unless of course you are Jaguar....look what happened to them.... So the MKZ is world class because the Fusion is world class? And what does world class mean anyway? I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach. Ultimately I don't care if I like the end result, but essentially you have not changed the story at Lincoln if you treat Lincoln like bolt-on luxury. I have always liked my Lincolns, nothing has really changed from then and now, it's still a really good Ford and I don't expect them to be better than that because I'd have to pay allot more to get the same features in a Merc or Bimmer (or even Audi). There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own. Edited June 19, 2013 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So the MKZ is world class because the Fusion is world class? And what does world class mean anyway? I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach. Ultimately I don't care, but essentially you have not changed the story at Lincoln if you treat Lincoln like bolt-on luxury. There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own. And how do you explain Lexus and Audi?? They still share a huge amount of components with their lesser beings... And if you really didn't care you wouldn't be posting BS like this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 You're right, Lincoln's crack engineering team took a platform, re-eingineered it completely with new engineering hardpoints, and viola, the MKZ is born. Explains why it took so long! That's not what you said. You said that the MKZ didn't have a different top hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usa_4004 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So the MKZ is world class because the Fusion is world class? And what does world class mean anyway? I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach. Ultimately I don't care if I like the end result, but essentially you have not changed the story at Lincoln if you treat Lincoln like bolt-on luxury. I have always liked my Lincolns, nothing has really changed from then and now, it's still a really good Ford and I don't expect them to be better than that because I'd have to pay allot more to get the same features in a Merc or Bimmer (or even Audi). There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own. Audi is waiting for you!. Life is too short so don't waste your time in whining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So the MKZ is world class because the Fusion is world class? And what does world class mean anyway? I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach. Ultimately I don't care if I like the end result, but essentially you have not changed the story at Lincoln if you treat Lincoln like bolt-on luxury. I have always liked my Lincolns, nothing has really changed from then and now, it's still a really good Ford and I don't expect them to be better than that because I'd have to pay allot more to get the same features in a Merc or Bimmer (or even Audi). There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own. yes, i would say the chassis integrity, and handling dynamics etc ARE world class....so in your world if Ford just extended the wheelbase 1/4 inch and made some of the pressed steel suspension components out of something more exotic as aluminum all would be fine right?.....because its "different" amd more expensive.....cant say I grasp your thought train there Borg.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So the MKZ is world class because the Fusion is world class? And what does world class mean anyway? I'm not saying it has to be, but it's still riding on a cheaper components and materials that do limit it's competitive reach. Ultimately I don't care if I like the end result, but essentially you have not changed the story at Lincoln if you treat Lincoln like bolt-on luxury. I have always liked my Lincolns, nothing has really changed from then and now, it's still a really good Ford and I don't expect them to be better than that because I'd have to pay allot more to get the same features in a Merc or Bimmer (or even Audi). There are a million small factors in designing and engineering a luxury car that Lincoln just can't circumvent until they are on their own. PS...what exactly is "luxury"?.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 PS...what exactly is "luxury"?.............. luxury 1.a material object, service, etc., conducive to sumptuous living, usually a delicacy, elegance, or refinement of living rather than a necessity: Gold cufflinks were a luxury not allowed for in his budget. 2. free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being: a life of luxury on the French Riviera. Another one of my favorites describing luxury....luxury once tasted becomes a necessity... Once you experience something that is better when what you have, you don't want to regress to that lower whatever...its just like getting heated/cooled seats...you don't NEED them, but they are sure nice on a Cold or Hot day! In most car buying, its about status of a badge.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 luxury 1.a material object, service, etc., conducive to sumptuous living, usually a delicacy, elegance, or refinement of living rather than a necessity: Gold cufflinks were a luxury not allowed for in his budget. 2. free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being: a life of luxury on the French Riviera. Another one of my favorites describing luxury....luxury once tasted becomes a necessity... Once you experience something that is better when what you have, you don't want to regress to that lower whatever...its just like getting heated/cooled seats...you don't NEED them, but they are sure nice on a Cold or Hot day! In most car buying, its about status of a badge.... Many of the things that were once "luxury" items are now on mainstream vehicles now though. Going above and beyond to make something "luxurious" is becoming more difficult as feature prices drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 luxury 1.a material object, service, etc., conducive to sumptuous living, usually a delicacy, elegance, or refinement of living rather than a necessity: Gold cufflinks were a luxury not allowed for in his budget. 2. free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being: a life of luxury on the French Riviera. Another one of my favorites describing luxury....luxury once tasted becomes a necessity... Once you experience something that is better when what you have, you don't want to regress to that lower whatever...its just like getting heated/cooled seats...you don't NEED them, but they are sure nice on a Cold or Hot day! In most car buying, its about status of a badge.... based on THAT description I would say ( barring a dis-advantage with badge PERCEPTION ) you could say a Fusion Titanium is LUXURY.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Many of the things that were once "luxury" items are now on mainstream vehicles now though. Going above and beyond to make something "luxurious" is becoming more difficult as feature prices drop. bingo, its become nothing more than perception, how can one say a BASE model German car from BMW or Mercedes with LOOK_A LIKE pleather is "luxury".....the word itself has become a mis-nomer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Many of the things that were once "luxury" items are now on mainstream vehicles now though. Going above and beyond to make something "luxurious" is becoming more difficult as feature prices drop. Exactly....I saw adverts for the Cadillac Cimarron from the 1980's hawking Aluminum wheels and a 5 speed as luxurious! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 bingo, its become nothing more than perception, how can one say a BASE model German car from BMW or Mercedes with LOOK_A LIKE pleather is "luxury".....the word itself has become a mis-nomer Premium make doesn't quite have the same ring to it Its all in the marketing...though you do have to wonder what is going through peoples heads when they buy a Hyundai Equus or Genesis sedan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 And this is where dealer experience is becoming a big distinguishing factor. I've been seeing ads for the Equus where they offer complimentary valet for service appointments and they will deliver the vehicle to your door for a test drive. Pretty nice touches. And that's from HYUNDAI!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) though you do have to wonder what is going through peoples heads when they buy a Hyundai Equus or Genesis sedan They are nice vehicles at very competitive prices. They are going more for the value-conscious, not the image-conscious. Even "value" shoppers may eventually want something nicer than a Sonata. Edited June 19, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 And this is where dealer experience is becoming a big distinguishing factor. I've been seeing ads for the Equus where they offer complimentary valet for service appointments and they will deliver the vehicle to your door for a test drive. Pretty nice touches. And that's from HYUNDAI!! gimmicky....what exactly happens when 10 people call at once........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 gimmicky....what exactly happens when 10 people call at once........ Well obviously the test drives need to be scheduled. What happens when 10 people walk into the showroom at the same time? Some of them wait. At least if you're at home waiting you can go do something else. But really, what are the odds of 10 people, let alone more than one or two, wanting to test drive an Equus at the same time? I see it as a pretty cheap way to do something a little extra for a potential customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 They are nice vehicles at very competitive prices. They are going more for the value-conscious, not the image-conscious. Even "value" shoppers may eventually want something nicer than a Sonata. The issue is that for the VAST majority of people a Sonata (or even an Elantra) is all they really want. Once you start getting past the say the 30K mark for a car...you're starting to cater to people who want some cache to go along with the car they are buying. That means people are going to want to get an Audi, BMW, etc because they have name recognition. Its more or less like this...you can get a purse from Target for say $50 bucks or goto the mall and get a fancy Coach bag for $350 that does the same thing or might be physically smaller then a similar bag from Target. But that bag from the Coach store has more cache then one from Target.... Seems more like Luxury is about creating aspirations than actual "luxury" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.