Lincoln Studying What New Models to Bring Out Next

[RichardJensen]

F1 costs $500M a year to do right. Pretty sure Ford's done with it for basically that reason.

[Biker16]

I think shrinking a Fusion might be a better route, just because I don't think a V6 would fit into the Focus front end. All depends on how big the "nano" V6s are going to be.

 

I'd offer the 2.3L Ecoboost and a Nano V6 as the Engine options in a small Lincoln

 

Its moot, they are going to merge both architectures going forward. C2 replacement needs to loose weight and improve NVH.

 

I am not sure what the advantage would be for a longer compact sedan for Lincoln, I would reframe it not as it needs to be larger but it needs to be more spacious inside.

 

After ford eliminated a V6 from the fusion why would they waste time trying to put a V6 in the in a compact Lincoln? The "nano" V6 will make what 340hp why would you need that much in a compact FWD car, for global markets?

 

The 1.5 Ecoboost would be the volume engine with the 1.0 and 2.0 Ecoboost as options.

 

Lincoln needs to breakthrough the noise with an asymmetric product thinking outside the box.

[2b2]

I think shrinking a Fusion might be a better route, just because I don't think a V6 would fit into the Focus front end. All depends on how big the "nano" V6s are going to be.

 

I'd offer the 2.3L Ecoboost and a Nano V6 as the Engine options in a small Lincoln

 

I like the idea of shortened CD4 too ... consider the measurements & proportions of the Evos ... tho I'd want that for Mercury ( anno MMXX )

&

really liking the idea of a specialty Lincoln on the GrandC-Max's longer wheelbase:

 

 

re: engines & differentiation

hope the new powerplants let each "Ford-matched" Lincolns have no EXACT-same engines

Fusion=2.0::MKZ=2.3 both EB & Atkinson

or

FusionSport-2.3EB::MKZsport=nano2.7EB

Edited June 15, 2013 by 2b2

[2b2]

dupe

Edited June 15, 2013 by 2b2

[Edstock]

After ford eliminated a V6 from the fusion why would they waste time trying to put a V6 in the in a compact Lincoln? The "nano" V6 will make what 340hp why would you need that much in a compact FWD car, for global markets?

 

Because it's a Lincoln, not a Ford?

 

And because it's a Lincoln, it will be a compact AWD car, for global markets, just like the other legitimate luxury builders offer. Should Lincoln decide to do an AMG-type, A-4S-type model, the Nano-turbo would be a fine place to start, IMHO.

[jpd80]

Its moot, they are going to merge both architectures going forward. C2 replacement needs to loose weight and improve NVH.

 

I am not sure what the advantage would be for a longer compact sedan for Lincoln, I would reframe it not as it needs to be larger but it needs to be more spacious inside.

 

After ford eliminated a V6 from the fusion why would they waste time trying to put a V6 in the in a compact Lincoln? The "nano" V6 will make what 340hp why would you need that much in a compact FWD car, for global markets?

 

The 1.5 Ecoboost would be the volume engine with the 1.0 and 2.0 Ecoboost as options.

 

Lincoln needs to breakthrough the noise with an asymmetric product thinking outside the box.

Originally, EUCD was an extension of C1 with necessary changes to the frame allowing larger cars and SUVs to be made

but both C1 and EUCD in Europe were sharing several Euro based power train and common electrical modules.

 

So the notion that CD4 and C1 are going to share more is basically redundant as both share what they can now

but remain separated for good reason, the differentiation being required by specific vehicle attributes.

 

A cultural difference between US and Chinese buyers is the desire for smaller well equipped luxury vehicles

with increased rear leg room and possibly a slight increase in shoulder but that's not considered as essential.

So consider that Escort concept with longer wheelbase of around 107" giving rear leg room like a mid sizer,

if there's an opportunity for a compact Lincoln in China, maybe the US market becomes incremental volume

[Biker16]

Because it's a Lincoln, not a Ford?

 

And because it's a Lincoln, it will be a compact AWD car, for global markets, just like the other legitimate luxury builders offer. Should Lincoln decide to do an AMG-type, A-4S-type model, the Nano-turbo would be a fine place to start, IMHO.

 

did Lexus put AWD on the ES300 yet? of how about the CT?

 

AWd IMO is awant but not a nesesity for this or other markets. invest resourses in features that will amke the product standout, not merely catch up.

 

why would you put a V6 in a compact car. It does not make dick any bigger it just shows how out of touch you are with the world. We don't use cylinders to show how powerful we are, we have turbos for that.

 

340hp Why?

 

Originally, EUCD was an extension of C1 with necessary changes to the frame allowing larger cars and SUVs to be made

but both C1 and EUCD in Europe were sharing several Euro based power train and common electrical modules.

 

Going forward the idea of shared Frames, will become less important but sharing those modules more important. Why? because the costs of building Dies as a percentage of development costs is falling, combined with the highly automated Presses being installed world wide, are driving the cost of Stamping down. add to that the inability of the existing architectures to reduce weight while maintaining commonality, ford will have to work harder optimizing individual variants to reduce weight, rather than trying to reduce the weight of the base architectures.

 

Example: with C2 you have the floor-pan on the Focus redesigned for AWD but only the escape Variant could use AWD. In the future you should be able to afford to design different floor pans much like you design different tophats for each variant to better optimized weight.

 

So the notion that CD4 and C1 are going to share more is basically redundant as both share what they can now

but remain separated for good reason, the differentiation being required by specific vehicle attributes.

 

They will share more, C1 and C2 need to move away from the current frontal structure and towards a more advanced crash and sub frame design. If you are Familiar with Intel's Tick & Tock development cycle EUCD and C1 are similar, new ideas are spawned on one architecture and shared with the other, etc etc, it helps to minimize risks involved with architecture Changes. its more like a parallel evolution, where all new technology are being introduced with every generation of platform. example would be the hydro-formed Roof rails on CD4, which will move to C3 and C3 will introduce a new frontal structure and floor-pan, to combine with the Roof Rails From CD4, CD5 will introduce another Innovation and combine it with the proven Technologies from C4. instead of waiting to introduce innovations with every new architecture revamp, they can move faster, and with less risk to the program from too many high risk changes at one time.

 

A cultural difference between US and Chinese buyers is the desire for smaller well equipped luxury vehicles

with increased rear leg room and possibly a slight increase in shoulder but that's not considered as essential.

So consider that Escort concept with longer wheelbase of around 107" giving rear leg room like a mid sizer,

if there's an opportunity for a compact Lincoln in China, maybe the US market becomes incremental volume

 

I can see what you are saying, but the issues with legroom in C2 can be resolved without making it larger.

 

I feel lincoln should see the US as incremental volume and focus on china because there is much greater potential for growth there than in the US.

[jpd80]

Biker,

I see it as more important for C1 to share more with the next generation Fiesta, Combining subcompact and compact modules

on one platform would seem easier to accomplish and actually achieve more weight savings in those models as well as utility variants.

This would be a major benefit to Europe and rest of the world markets where these cars are volume sellers and need to be as light

as possible for fuel economy and CO2 ratings without compromising crash worthiness.

 

Doing that would allow CD4 the freedom to focus on the larger vehicle envelope and become a major Platform for Ford NA.

So it depends how Ford wants to plays this out and whether combining Focus and Fusion is better than Fiesta & Focus..

Edited June 16, 2013 by jpd80

[GT-Keith]

Mustang is the obvious choice, IMO. Maybe the increased production cost from the new Mustang will justify a high-margin, Lincoln platform-mate. With the strong Chinese luxury market, its the perfect opportunity for Ford to push Lincoln there.

 

I mean how does Mustang get an exclusive platform for all these years only to have its sales decrease by half over the last half decade?

[jpd80]

I mean how does Mustang get an exclusive platform for all these years only to have its sales decrease by half over the last half decade?

That dedicated platform is now in its ninth year of production but somehow managed to out sell the Camaro last month.

Sports coupe sales are usually a reflection of buyer confidence in the economy which until recently has been a litle shaky..

Edited June 16, 2013 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Biker,

I see it as more important for C1 to share more with the next generation Fiesta, Combining subcompact and compact modules

on one platform would seem easier to accomplish and actually achieve more weight savings in those models as well as utility variants.

This would be a major benefit to Europe and rest of the world markets where these cars are volume sellers and need to be as light

as possible for fuel economy and CO2 ratings without compromising crash worthiness.

 

Doing that would allow CD4 the freedom to focus on the larger vehicle envelope and become a major Platform for Ford NA.

So it depends how Ford wants to plays this out and whether combining Focus and Fusion is better than Fiesta & Focus..

 

I understand what you are saying, but the issue of cost dominates the B class, while weight begins to dominate as you grow in size.

 

The balance between Weight, refinement and cost, is becoming more and more difficult to find.

 

The example would be the front sub frame design used on the focus and fiesta, it's design has been refined over the last 15 years but is reaching the end because it become heavier the more refined it becomes. The rubber isolated variant on C1, is heavier and difficult to improve refinement without adding more weight, on the other hand in the B-car it works fine and ugragind it would add too much cost and weight. And the expectations for b cars are different.

 

So finding that balance is the key.

[Edstock]

Are you being obtuse, or are you a little slow? Anyway, what Lexus does is what Lexus does. You will note that this is about Lincoln. Lincolns are better than that. Nano! Nano! 400hp!

 

S4 Audi

 

For those who want exhilarating performance, however, the Audi S4 steps right up. Its 3.0-liter TFSI engine boasts a hefty 333 bhp and 325 lb-ft of torque. The transmission choices are the 6-speed manual or the 7-speed S tronic with a new crown-gear center differential. Along with this comes Audi's dynamic electro-mechanical power steering and Audi's Quattro all-wheel-drive for all S4 models.

 

 

 

did Lexus put AWD on the ES300 yet? of how about the CT?

 

AWd IMO is awant but not a nesesity for this or other markets. invest resourses in features that will amke the product standout, not merely catch up.

 

why would you put a V6 in a compact car. It does not make dick any bigger it just shows how out of touch you are with the world. We don't use cylinders to show how powerful we are, we have turbos for that.

 

340hp Why?

[BORG]

Lincoln's subsequent upscale releases include a new MKX, MKS, and MKT...so yes...they are going upscale following the release of the MKC.

 

Lincoln will not likely be in a position to develop a ground-up product for awhile, first of all they've never done it and don't have the resources...second of all they have not stabilized a core customer base to buy them when it's launched. They need more time than the next few years. Any standalone Lincoln products will likely be based on Ford mechanicals. The 4-Door Lincoln Mustang is a prime example, but right now I don't see that as feasible based on the one-off nature of the Mustang program and the fact Ford has no interest in figuring out how to make a platform flexible enough for Lincoln to do anythign other than re-skin it.

Edited June 16, 2013 by BORG

[akirby]

Lincoln will not likely be in a position to develop a ground-up product for awhile, first of all they've never done it

 

Sure they have.....

 

[jpd80]

Also a shared platform with Jaguar...and a huge financial failure.

 

What Borg was suggesting is engineering development completely divorced from Ford, that's not happening anytime soon.

Edited June 16, 2013 by jpd80

[2b2]

..Any standalone Lincoln products will likely be based on Ford mechanicals. The 4-Door Lincoln Mustang is a prime example, but right now I don't see that as feasible based on the one-off nature of the Mustang program and the fact Ford has no interest in figuring out how to make a platform flexible enough for Lincoln to do anythign other than re-skin it.

 

just-imho

flexibility is perhaps the major difference of the S550

&

that could explain the dichotomy of reports that it's "just an updated S197" VS "all new"

[Edstock]

Just a wish: A 2-3" longer wheelbase S550 with a Lincoln top hat as a 2-dr. Touring-Shooting Brake.

[Biker16]

Are you being obtuse, or are you a little slow? Anyway, what Lexus does is what Lexus does. You will note that this is about Lincoln. Lincolns are better than that. Nano! Nano! 400hp!

 

S4 Audi

 

For those who want exhilarating performance, however, the Audi S4 steps right up. Its 3.0-liter TFSI engine boasts a hefty 333 bhp and 325 lb-ft of torque. The transmission choices are the 6-speed manual or the 7-speed S tronic with a new crown-gear center differential. Along with this comes Audi's dynamic electro-mechanical power steering and Audi's Quattro all-wheel-drive for all S4 models.

 

Obtuse?

 

Why not put the V6 in the fiesta while your at it?

 

You do understand the compact Audi is not the s4 but the s3 and it puts out an astounding 200hp.

 

The V6 is overkill.

 

EB 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 are the most obvious candidates for this car.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Biker16

[Edstock]

So, you want an A3 size and I want an A4 size and width, where a V-6 is a necessary option, IMHO.

 

It also keeps Lincoln away from Ford product that gets into A3 territory, like the Focus ST, or the Focus Titanium, and charges of "gussied-up Fords", with what they do eventually build.

[silvrsvt]

It also keeps Lincoln away from Ford product that gets into A3 territory, like the Focus ST, or the Focus Titanium, and charges of "gussied-up Fords", with what they do eventually build.

 

 

Thats the issue Lincoln is facing today...they need to separated as much as possible vs other Ford products till they lose that stigma, offering a V6 or even a V8 in products vs whats in a comparable Ford trim, would be a big help with that.

 

AFAIK, the Lexus that share the same platforms as Toyotas also use the same engines and they don't have that issue of being called gussed up Toyotas...

[2b2]

...AFAIK, the Lexus that share the same platforms as Toyotas also use the same engines and they don't have that issue of being called gussied up Toyotas...

 

maybe their "spider-face" grilles don't count as gussied?

[bzcat]

So, you want an A3 size and I want an A4 size and width, where a V-6 is a necessary option, IMHO.

 

It also keeps Lincoln away from Ford product that gets into A3 territory, like the Focus ST, or the Focus Titanium, and charges of "gussied-up Fords", with what they do eventually build.

 

A3 size is where all the growth in luxury segment will come from in the next few years so that's why Ford is thinking about it for Lincoln. New A3, CLA and upcoming 2 series grand coupe are all the size of previous generation A4, C-class, and 3 series sedan so we are not talking about tiny cars.

[BORG]

I can imagine a Lincoln based on a C2 with AWD. Actually, I would be a little surprised if that doesn't happen at Lincoln.

Edited June 17, 2013 by BORG

[Edstock]

maybe their "spider-face" grilles don't count as gussied?

 

"spider-face"? Um, sure, if you say so.

[PREMiERdrum]

"spider-face"? Um, sure, if you say so.

That's putting it mildly... their new "spindle" grille always makes me think