Compact cross over comparison

[silvrsvt]

Easy now..

 

 

If it bleeds, its leads! :p

 

unfortunately news reporting is often skewed because of the all mighty advertising dollar...

[Hugh]

The market is not comparing an EB with past 4.0s or 4.6s. The market looks at current, modern offerings and finds, as in this comparison, that for essentially equal power numbers across the four CUVs, Ford's EB approach returns worse economy than the NA engines. In the US, where there are no taxes based on displacement, there's no benefit of minimizing displacement while retaining the same power if economy suffers, particularly when acceleration and drivability are not better.

I agree with your market statement in general. Ford is moving away from the last NA global I4 program and supplies engines not just Ford but still has a commitment to Jaguar, Range Rover and Volvo for the EB20. I stress the raw materials point. It I was a major issue back when Ford was financing the family farm. Just because it's not in the news so much now, doesn't mean the problem went away. You can get the same with less. It has been done to death how Ford cannot out-japanese and german but needs to be different. They are and are worldwide. The initial results for EB may be disappointing but it is certainly not a failure. What will be telling is if Ford goes more than 2nd generation EB or replaces it with a new NA family.

[Project-Fairmont]

I love our Titanium 2.0. This is one of FoMoCo's best offerings; excellent traction, ride and drive. We got 26.2 mpg during the 4th holiday. Cheap looking dash? MT is high (on sake...)!

 

Dont let it ruin your day folks - Looks, packaging, performance and build quality this a Ford you can be proud of! MT has to please all it advertisiers (since it was picked best the last time around).

[svtenthusiast]

I like the Escape in concept: small SUV with nice exterior styling and available technology if you want to pay for it, nice handling for a SUV, neat powered and kick to open liftgate (barring separate glass opening is missed)

 

That being said, I agree that the vehicle is full of compromises--made by the fact that it's distributed as a "world" vehicle.

• Cargo area is tighter than the previous model and also not as tall in the tailgate opening
• No cubbies to store loose items near the driver (like a cell phone), console is like a black hole--it's deep but no use when you have to dig with something, they didn't even put a light in there
• Still don't see the benefit of the opposing windshield wipers and they have screwed up on me a few times--why the complexity needed with separate motors, sync logic, etc?
• EB gas mileage has not been met on a regular basis through 20K miles even though I run all highway, flat roads, keeping under 62 MPH, run cruise, turn off A/C on mild days, no extra cargo, correct air pressure on tires, coasting to lights, moderate acceleration. Been able to meet or exceed EPA in all previous Ford vehicles I have owned. Compounded by frustration with the peanut sized gas tank, 15 gallons is smaller than the Fusion's. 2013 Escape the same real world combined gas mileage as pre 2012 Escape as verified on Fuelly.com
• MyFord touch--added frustration, need I say more
• No instant MPG readouts like most all other Ford vehicles, no way to adjust operation of features like other Ford vehicles
• Controls, displays, telematics, operation/engineering are not typical of a Ford USA vehicle. Wrong information in the owner's manual as Ford USA tries to translate Kuga information for the US market. 5 revisions of the owner's manual and still not accurate. Frustration ensues, typical Ford customers don't appreciate changes in controls when owning multiple Ford vehicles.
• Squeaks, rattles, break squeal, build quality issues, inconsistent quality of interior plastics, junk Continental tires (can't believe they went with this brand after all the GEN1 escape chopping tire issues)

 

Again, like others have said, just an overall average vehicle with competition overtaking them within 1 year of introduction. Because it wasn't innovative nor ground breaking from day 1. Even though the EB motor is frustrating on the MPG, it's my favorite part of the vehicle because everything else about it is average or below. Then they go and de-content it and raise the price in 2014. (see my thread in the Escape section) It's not a winning nor class leading plan unfortunately.

Edited July 9, 2013 by svtenthusiast

[NickF1011]

It's not a winning nor class leading plan unfortunately.

If it's making them money hand over fist (I can't see how it couldn't be) then it certainly is. It's not like it will just remain basically as-is for a decade-plus like the last generation did either. The entire point of going to a global architecture was to lower costs of future developments, which should allow changes to be adopted far more quickly.

[svtenthusiast]

If it's making them money hand over fist (I can't see how it couldn't be) then it certainly is. It's not like it will just remain basically as-is for a decade-plus like the last generation did either. The entire point of going to a global architecture was to lower costs of future developments, which should allow changes to be adopted far more quickly.

Just because you are making money currently is a very dangerous business plan, especially when you are turning off current customers and you don't realize they have gone elsewhere when profits and sales are down in a few years. Very short sided and short term there, they have been there before. Bigger profits/de-contenting/sub-par product do not equal satisfied and repeat customers.

 

You have to listen to your customers, change product and processes to their needs, be innovative, be reliable, create value for the money to consistently be a class leading organization with class leading products.

[NickF1011]

Just because you are making money currently is a very dangerous business plan, especially when you are turning off current customers and you don't realize they have gone elsewhere when profits and sales are down in a few years. Very short sided and short term there, they have been there before. Bigger profits/de-contenting/sub-par product do not equal satisfied and repeat customers.

 

You have to listen to your customers, change product and processes to their needs, be innovative, be reliable, create value for the money to consistently be a class leading organization with class leading products.

The Escape is currently experiencing its best sales ever. Safe to say they are turning away fewer customers than ever before. Either Ford customers just don't demand very much or the Escape just isn't as far behind the curve as MT claims.

 

And I see zero indication that Ford is ignoring any of the things you mention. They have been updating products faster than they have in decades, and certainly no slower than any of its competitors. Now, if the current Escape is still kicking around in another few years without any major updates, then yeah, you might start to see a significant drop-off in sales, but there's little lately to base any assumption on that that will happen.

Edited July 9, 2013 by NickF1011

[silvrsvt]

• Compounded by frustration with the peanut sized gas tank, 15 gallons is smaller than the Fusion's.

Its exactly the same size as the las gen Escape and as my Mustang

 

• MyFord touch--added frustration, need I say more
• No instant MPG readouts like most all other Ford vehicles, no way to adjust operation of features like other Ford vehicle
• Controls, displays, telematics, operation/engineering are not typical of a Ford USA vehicle. Wrong information in the owner's manual as Ford USA tries to translate Kuga information for the US market. 5 revisions of the owner's manual and still not accurate. Frustration ensues, typical Ford customers don't appreciate changes in controls when owning multiple Ford vehicles.

 

MFT..YMMV with it...I got into my parents Escape and it was slightly different then my SHO's MFT (which is found most other Ford vehicles) and I had no issues working it

 

MPG...I don't have an instant MPG reading either..only 5,10,30 minute ratings..the instant readings are useless since you can "trick" them into getting super high MPG' # by coasting down hills etc..

 

Controls...yet again the Escape is nearly identical to the Focus and to a lesser extent the Fusion. Am I pissed at Ford because my SHO is completely different than my 2006 Mustang GT (which in turn was nearly identical to my 1986 Escort GT control wise), no its good to have a "change" after that long! The Escape, Fusion, Focus and Taurus have nearly identical controls on them, if you go back 5-10 years, yes they are going to be different, but I know Mulally wanted all Fords to have similar controls to them where possible and we are seeing the fruits of that now.

 

 

 

 

 

• Squeaks, rattles, break squeal, build quality issues, inconsistent quality of interior plastics, junk Continental tires (can't believe they went with this brand after all the GEN1 escape chopping tire issues)

 

IMO I love my Continental tires I have on Mustang and I put on my Fiancee's 2008 Escape..and my parents 2013 Escape Ti is drum tight with no issues what so ever.

 

Then they go and de-content it and raise the price in 2014. (see my thread in the Escape section) It's not a winning nor class leading plan unfortunately.

 

Why is that? the SEL trim cost more loaded then the base Ti that had more standard options...and I'm sure that the buying trends indicated that is what people where buying...

[svtenthusiast]

Its exactly the same size as the las gen Escape and as my Mustang

Nope. The previous gen Escape had a 17.5 gallon fuel tank, big difference in range with almost the same real world MPG.

[Deanh]

Just because you are making money currently is a very dangerous business plan, especially when you are turning off current customers and you don't realize they have gone elsewhere when profits and sales are down in a few years. Very short sided and short term there, they have been there before. Bigger profits/de-contenting/sub-par product do not equal satisfied and repeat customers.

 

You have to listen to your customers, change product and processes to their needs, be innovative, be reliable, create value for the money to consistently be a class leading organization with class leading products.

they are listening, they are making changes and they are being pro-active, more than i witnessed in a LONG LONG time....

[Deanh]

Nope. The previous gen Escape had a 17.5 gallon fuel tank, big difference in range with almost the same real world MPG.

so potentially miles per full tank would almost be a wash from my calculations....

[silvrsvt]

Nope. The previous gen Escape had a 17.5 gallon fuel tank, big difference in range with almost the same real world MPG.

 

 

its Actually 16.5 Gallons....so its roughly a gallon difference between the two...not as earth shattering as you make it out to be...you can go an extra 20-30 miles...big deal

[Deanh]

its Actually 16.5 Gallons....so its roughly a gallon difference between the two...not as earth shattering as you make it out to be...you can go an extra 20-30 miles...big deal

which is negated over the tank full due to slightly better MPG's.......

[jpd80]

which is negated over the tank full due to slightly better MPG's.......

And that's something you may be able to expand upon, when potential buyers come in to the showroom,

do they usually normally compare the fuel economy of their trade in with what the new vehicle gets

or are they knowledgeable cross shoppers aware of what fuel economy competitor's vehicles achieve?

 

IMO, unless those buyers are actually cross shopping other vehicles in the class, I doubt they look that closely

at the fuel economy, things like availability, options packing the test drive are of far greater importance.

Edited July 9, 2013 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

IMO, unless those buyers are actually cross shopping other vehicles in the class, I doubt they look that closely

at the fuel economy, things like availability, options packing the test drive are of far greater importance.

Fuel economy on the vast majority of similar vehicles is close enough that the decision is going to come down to features and content instead. 1-2 MPG likely isn't going to sway many people.

[svtenthusiast]

its Actually 16.5 Gallons....so its roughly a gallon difference between the two...not as earth shattering as you make it out to be...you can go an extra 20-30 miles...big deal

Sigh.....so I have to take the time to sinp it out of the 2012 owners manual.........it's 17.5 gallons. 15.1 vs. 17.5 is 2.4 gallons. That's an extra day driving to/from work for me. And then add the very conservative fuel gauge/low fuel light that comes on after burning about 12 gallons of gas, it's less than ideal.

 

Point is real world fuel economy between EB's and the previous 4 cylinder and V-6 combined is almost exactly the same between a 2012 and 2013. Yes, the 2013 has more potential but the EB has more potential to react greatly to different driving styles.

 

And there is no excuse why the Escape has a smaller tank than a Fusion (16.5 FWD, 17.5 AWD), it's a SUV with the same available engines.

Edited July 9, 2013 by svtenthusiast

[Deanh]

Sigh.....so I have to take the time to sinp it out of the 2012 owners manual.........it's 17.5 gallons. 15.1 vs. 17.5 is 2.4 gallons. That's an extra day driving to/from work for me. And then add the very conservative fuel gauge/low fuel light that comes on after burning about 12 gallons of gas, it's less than ideal.

 

Point is real world fuel economy between EB's and the previous 4 cylinder and V-6 combined is almost exactly the same between a 2012 and 2013. Yes, the 2013 has more potential but the EB has more potential to react greatly to different driving styles.

 

And there is no excuse why the Escape has a smaller tank than a Fusion (16.5 FWD, 17.5 AWD), it's a SUV with the same available engines.

hey, the Fiestas 12.2 so quit your bitchin....and I too have a fuel light come on when theres 2 gallons left....lol

[RichardJensen]

We get it. You don't like your Escape and you think everyone else in the world has exactly the same opinions as you.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[svtenthusiast]

We get it. You don't like your Escape and you think everyone else in the world has exactly the same opinions as you.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

We get it. You don't like anyone in a (public) forum speak from personal real world experiences that may not match other peoples view of Ford through rose colored glasses.

 

The consistent mantra around here to convolute a civil conversation into a personal attack regarding someone's opinion because it's against FMC is irrational, immature, and tiring.

[RichardJensen]

I don't like people extrapolating universals from particulars.

 

And as to incivility, you are as guilty of it as anyone else here, so you are hardly a fit person to complain about it. If conversations degenerate, you are as much at fault as anyone else, and occasionally, more so.

[jpd80]

I notice people complain about fuel economy yet admit to using cruise control as much as possible,

I can tell you that is probably the single most anti-economy device you can use on the highway.

If there's slight undulations in the road, the cruse will eat something like 3-4 mpg on you

Edited July 10, 2013 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

I notice people complain about fuel economy yet admit to using cruise control as much as possible,

I can tell you that is probably the single most anti-economy device you can use on the highway.

If there's slight undulations in the road, the cruse will eat something like 3-4 mpg on you

 

 

I find it to be totally the opposite...the issue is that you're never going to keep the speed at a constant like cruise control can. You're going to be varying your speed because your foot isn't a calibrated piece of machinery

 

 

 

Sigh.....so I have to take the time to sinp it out of the 2012 owners manual.........it's 17.5 gallons. 15.1 vs. 17.5 is 2.4 gallons. That's an extra day driving to/from work for me. And then add the very conservative fuel gauge/low fuel light that comes on after burning about 12 gallons of gas, it's less than ideal.

 

Guess you never considered the fact that it could be wrong like your 2013 owners manual? I own a 2010 Escape and I've never put more then 15 or so gallons in it with the light on

 

This Ford link also disagrees with you

 

http://assets.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/assets/NGBS/pdf/pdf_8801EF28-90B7-9782-E844-E2ADE844E2AD.pdf

 

 

 

 

Oh the EPA also says its 16.5 Gallons

 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=29454

Edited July 10, 2013 by silvrsvt

[ANTAUS]

Speaking of, how many people wait till the fuel gauge hits "10 miles till empty" (or less) before they refuel?

[silvrsvt]

Speaking of, how many people wait till the fuel gauge hits "10 miles till empty" (or less) before they refuel?

 

I don't...rather not suck up crap at the bottom of the tank that might be there

[rmc523]

Except for the F150, in which Ford really cares and invests a lot, their models tend not to age that well in the marketplace. Then they have a nasty habit of stranding them forever without major updates. I respect profits as much as anyone, but Ford has a long history of quickly following up good financial and sales times with troubling nosedives. It seems they get inflexible with meeting customer's needs and wants and their competition swoops in. Times are great now but I see that FoMoCo is being more than tempted to repeat their history.

 

Stranding them forever without updates? Have you not seen the past several years where Ford has been consistently upgrading their vehicles every few years with refreshes?

 

And there is no excuse why the Escape has a smaller tank than a Fusion (16.5 FWD, 17.5 AWD), it's a SUV with the same available engines.

 

You do realize the Escape is based off the smaller Focus' architecture, yes? Just because they have the same engine doesn't mean there's the same amount of available space to put the same size gas tank.

 

Speaking of, how many people wait till the fuel gauge hits "10 miles till empty" (or less) before they refuel?

 

Well, mine goes off at 50 miles to empty, and I generally refill probably somewhere between the 20-50 mile (to empty) range, though I have sometimes run below that, with two times all the way to 0 as I'm pulling in the station.