iamamultitasker Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/ford-says-it-s-boosting-fuel-economy-of-2013-hybrids.html?cmpid=yhoo This is a very interesting tidbit. I wonder where the fuel economy is going to wind up. It would be ironic if the real world FE goes up, but the est. EPA FE goes down. Edit: added a more comprehensive article here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-further-improving-road-hybrid-204500693.html Edited July 16, 2013 by iamamultitasker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hokey Smokes, Rocky. The MKZ Hybrid is 40% of all MKZ production? There's the future of Lincoln right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 admission of guilt?....there,..... I said it before the guys with the pitchforks......they WILL be coming, once they leave Toyota or Hyundai headquarters..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamamultitasker Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 admission of guilt?....there,..... I said it before the guys with the pitchforks......they WILL be coming, once they leave Toyota or Hyundai headquarters..... I don't necessarily see this as an admission of guilt. I see it more as an indication that the real world mpgs <> epa test mpgs. However, it makes me think that Ford originally tuned the hybrids to ace the EPA tests, but not for the best real world mpgs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamamultitasker Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hokey Smokes, Rocky. The MKZ Hybrid is 40% of all MKZ production? There's the future of Lincoln right there. That is a really good point. The way Tesla has glamorized electrified vehicles it makes sense that more and more luxury customers would want that in other brands. This gives me hope for Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I don't necessarily see this as an admission of guilt. I see it more as an indication that the real world mpgs <> epa test mpgs. However, it makes me think that Ford originally tuned the hybrids to ace the EPA tests, but not for the best real world mpgs. quite possibly true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) No. You look at the stuff that they're adjusting, and in every instance they are going from a conservative estimate of the vehicle's capabilities to a more generous estimate. They're letting the vehicle hit 85mph in electric only mode, that's 23mph higher than before. They're cutting off airflow to the engine to reduce drag, even though this will also reduce cooling ability. They're reducing the amount of time the cooling fan runs, which reduces power consumption, again, at the expense of cooling ability. These moves have all the hallmarks of an adjustment based on the system being more robust than anticipated. You could also compare these actions to Ford's decision to uprate the F150's max towing by 20% (from 10,000lbs to 12,000lbs) in what? 2007? without changing anything on the vehicle. They were removing some margin for error, but apparently they've still left enough to keep the system reliable (or so you would think). Edited July 16, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4beer Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/ford-says-it-s-boosting-fuel-economy-of-2013-hybrids.html?cmpid=yhoo This is a very interesting tidbit. I wonder where the fuel economy is going to wind up. It would be ironic if the real world FE goes up, but the est. EPA FE goes down. Edit: added a more comprehensive article here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-further-improving-road-hybrid-204500693.html Can anyone confirm that this adjustment is for current owners (article makes it sound that way) and not just for new owners? If so, will Ford be contacting owners to set up appointments? After a 400-mile trip in my C-Max Hybrid this past weekend, it was very apparent how huge the MPG delta was between cruising at 65 MPH vs. 78 MPH. The MPG delta is also huge between cold and warm ambient. We're overall pleased with the MPG, but I would welcome a tweak to minimize the above-mentioned deltas. It also occurred to me that all cars, especially non-hybrids, should include the same driving habit/energy consumption feedback that the C-Max provides. If everyone had that feedback shoved in their face, most people would learn to drive for maximized MPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I wonder where the fuel economy is going to wind up. Hopefully around where the window sticker is. Wasn't ever a problem for the 2010-2012 Fusion Hybrid...EPA stated a combined mileage of 39 and of 50 reports, it's averaging 38.6. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=26405&id=33010&id=33083 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Can anyone confirm that this adjustment is for current owners (article makes it sound that way) and not just for new owners? If so, will Ford be contacting owners to set up appointments? Letters will go out by the end of July to about 77,000 owners of the 2013 Ford C-Max, Fusion and Lincoln MKZ. They will be instructed to make an appointment with their dealers for a half-day of work adjusting the software at no charge. New 2014 models will have the upgrades done at the factory. http://www.freep.com/article/20130716/BUSINESS0102/307160116/ford-hybrids-c-max-fusion-lincoln-mkz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 You could also compare these actions to Ford's decision to uprate the F150's max towing by 20% (from 10,000lbs to 12,000lbs) in what? 2007? The F-150 does not now have a 12K tow rating. 11,300 is as high as she goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4beer Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Letters will go out by the end of July to about 77,000 owners of the 2013 Ford C-Max, Fusion and Lincoln MKZ. They will be instructed to make an appointment with their dealers for a half-day of work adjusting the software at no charge. New 2014 models will have the upgrades done at the factory. http://www.freep.com/article/20130716/BUSINESS0102/307160116/ford-hybrids-c-max-fusion-lincoln-mkz Thanks for the info, Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 The F-150 does not now have a 12K tow rating. 11,300 is as high as she goes. You were so focused on his numbers that you completely missed the point of his statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Kudos to Ford for its proactive stance toward satisfying customers of the company's most recent gasoline-electric hybrid models. Any chance that Ford may pursue similar "tweaks" for Ecoboost equipped vehicles (which have also shown significant discrepancies between real world fuel economy and EPA estimates)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 it makes me think that Ford originally tuned the hybrids to ace the EPA tests, but not for the best real world mpgs. Oh for Pete's sake - you CAN'T 'tune for the EPA test' at the expense of real world mpgs. Anything that helps the EPA test also helps real world fuel economy. Unless you think they're using different components or pcm code which is totally illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Pretty big news. I saw it on front page of Yahoo today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 The F-150 does not now have a 12K tow rating. 11,300 is as high as she goes. Really? My memory fails me. What I recall was Ford sandbagging Nissan (remember them?) with a rumored 9500lb tow rating, which Nissan topped at 9900lbs, only to have Ford deliver 10,000lbs at release. I thought they upped it to 12k, but 11,300 sounds familiar now that I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Any chance that Ford may pursue similar "tweaks" for Ecoboost equipped vehicles (which have also shown significant discrepancies between real world fuel economy and EPA estimates)? Only if they can do so without compromising reliability. Seems pretty clear that every tweak tended to narrow the operating tolerances of the engine. And, I might add, that it seems far more prudent to overestimate the tolerances initially, than to underestimate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 You were so focused on his numbers that you completely missed the point of his statement. How did I miss it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Really? My memory fails me. What I recall was Ford sandbagging Nissan (remember them?) with a rumored 9500lb tow rating, which Nissan topped at 9900lbs, only to have Ford deliver 10,000lbs at release. I thought they upped it to 12k, but 11,300 sounds familiar now that I see it. Yeah, that was from Ford.com. I wasn't completely sure, but I think I would have remembered the numerous press releases that absolutely would have come out (and the commercials with Denis Leary) if indeed they hit the 12K mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 How did I miss it? Simple: By reducing the amount of engine cooling in order to decrease demand for electricity and decrease wind resistance, Ford is running the engine harder than original specs--without physically altering the engine. Similarly, when Ford upped the tow rating for the F150, they allowed the engine to be ran harder than original specs without physically altering the engine. -- With a year of data available from a number of situations--and probably a few system failures--Ford has been able to reduce the operating safety margin. And they're doing this. The winner? Hybrid owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Simple: By reducing the amount of engine cooling in order to decrease demand for electricity and decrease wind resistance, Ford is running the engine harder than original specs--without physically altering the engine. Similarly, when Ford upped the tow rating for the F150, they allowed the engine to be ran harder than original specs without physically altering the engine. -- With a year of data available from a number of situations--and probably a few system failures--Ford has been able to reduce the operating safety margin. And they're doing this. The winner? Hybrid owners. Sorry, the correct answer is, I didn't miss your point at all. I get it. But an error needed to be corrected. I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slampro Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Our 2013 C Max is to be built 7/18. Will our car have this done at factory, or will it be a later update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Sorry, the correct answer is, I didn't miss your point at all. I get it. But an error needed to be corrected. I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in. You're right the max. towing was pegged at 11,300 but only because F250 tow capacity starts at 12,500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 How did I miss it? Well, after your later statements, it appears you didn't miss it. My point was that the actual numbers didn't matter as much as the fact that they increased. But you got it...it's all good, and RJ is now straight on the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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