Lincoln at Pebble Beach

[ds91776]

Word is that Lincoln will have a major announcement/reveal at the upcoming Pebble Beach event. Based upon comments from Autoline After Hours, I think this is going to be special, and could feature a significant surprise. But what could it be?

Option 1: The simplist option is the production version of the MKC. Of course, this would be great...but I kinda suspect that Lincoln might have something more 'interesting' up its sleeve.

 

Option 2: Navigator refresh: This is the rumor that just won't die. Some people still insist that a refresh of the Navigator is coming before a redesigned model in two years or so. I think this is the least likely.

 

Option 3: MKX Production-Preview Concept. If this happens I imagine that this concept will be much like the 'not quite there' concepts like the MKZ and MKC. Of all the the concept options this is perhaps the most likely but also the least exciting...but still would be fun to see.

 

Option 4: Farther-Out Production Preview Concept: Another option is a concept that is far less 'production ready' than the MKZ and MKC, but still gives direct hints of future product. The obvious options for this are a veiled preview of the next-gen MKS or Navigator.

 

Option 5: Presitige Concept: Take a cue ( HA! get it? ) from Cadillac, Lincoln might show off a high-concept design study concept similar to the Ciel from last year. Lincoln needs to show that it can do breathtaking far-out design, and it might telescope that at Pebble Beach. The obvious candidates for a concept like this are a Flagship/Continental/Town Car concept or a coupe/convertible concept.

 

Any of these options would be fun and exciting for Lincoln fans...and we don't have much time to wait. What do people think it would be? Are there any FoMoCo employees willing to share?

[2b2]

Options 3&4: very conceptual S550 LincStang concept?
(afaik the nextgen S** & Navi are ALSO cy2015/2016my models)
** whatever it's called

Option 6: Bespoke Program?

[EBFlex]

I hope it's something that will bring a lot of attention to Lincoln and show that someone, anyone is serious about turning the brand around. It needs to be bold, different, affordable, attractive and something unique.

[Extreme4x4]

Since when is a concept ever affordable??

 

On that same subject, since when is luxury supposed to be "affordable??"

[2b2]

^&^^

maybe "aspirational"?

 

comment I saw at TheMustangSource about a nextgen rendering:

"...There'd be a BMW 3 series, my '05 GT, my house, Wife and Kids

on eBay if it really looks like that..."

 

^that^

is what Lincoln needs

 

 

Word is that Lincoln will have a major announcement/reveal at the upcoming Pebble Beach event. Based upon comments from Autoline After Hours, I think this is going to be special, and could feature a significant surprise. But what could it be?

DS,

I shoulda asked for a Link or which episode, number/date/title...

(timestamp would really be appreciated too!)

...never found the right one

Edited August 5, 2013 by 2b2

[EBFlex]

Since when is a concept ever affordable??

 

On that same subject, since when is luxury supposed to be "affordable??"

 

When a brand as damaged as Lincoln is trying to right the ship, they need to do something to make people take a look at them. Lower prices than the other brands in the class and more useful technology is where it's at. Lincoln can't just be another luxury brand. There are plenty of those and they are far more established with a much bigger customer base.

[RichardJensen]

Lower prices than the other brands in the class

 

How many luxury brands offer a midsize sedan for $36k, let alone a hybrid variant?

 

Oh, wait. It's the internet. Facts don't matter.

Edited August 5, 2013 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

Lower prices than the other brands in the class and more useful technology is where it's at.

 

In your opinion. Only you won't be buying. Where it's really at is how the value of Lincoln luxury design is perceived by people who aren't you.

[drob23]

How many luxury brands offer a midsize sedan for $36k, let alone a hybrid variant?

 

Oh, wait. It's the internet. Facts don't matter.

I'd say Japenese luxury brands would be the competition - ES, Q50, TL (all roughly 36k to start). The germans offerings are either smaller (A4/3 Series/C class) or too big and expensive. Cadillac looks to be following the German approach.

 

Things will get more competitive once the German's start bringing in low cost entry level sedans - CLA, A3 sedan, 2 Series GT. This is interestingly one area where Ford isn't really attempting to attack the market. Everyone goes on and on about a halo RWD car, but I'd say having a car like the ATS would be fantastic for the brand. Not really sure if it's worth it from a cost/benefit perspective, but it certainly hurts that they can't lure younger people. I know acura does it cheap with the civic/ILX, but not sure Lincold needs a focus variant.

Edited August 5, 2013 by drob23

[RichardJensen]

I disagree. I think the biggest growth potential for Lincoln is in the compact CUV sector.

[sullynd]

If its a high style concept with no intention of production that'd be cool. If its the production MkC that could make some sense, but seems like a minor reveal (not that the MkC is minor, but the unveiling of a production model of a concept seems minor). If its a concept for a product that's years out I'd rather they wait.

 

"Here's the car you'll be dreaming of, you can order it starting tomorrow and have it in six months"

 

What's the shortest recent turn around from unveil to production? Focus? Even Explorer was pretty quick, no?

[Moosetang]

I don't think it will be anything pie-in-the sky, and a pure concept to launch a new styling direction would have come before MKC, not this long after. Either a production MKC, or a "concept" MK_ for their next major product.

[Extreme4x4]

I'd say Japenese luxury brands would be the competition - ES, Q50, TL (all roughly 36k to start). The germans offerings are either smaller (A4/3 Series/C class) or too big and expensive. Cadillac looks to be following the German approach.

 

Things will get more competitive once the German's start bringing in low cost entry level sedans - CLA, A3 sedan, 2 Series GT. This is interestingly one area where Ford isn't really attempting to attack the market. Everyone goes on and on about a halo RWD car, but I'd say having a car like the ATS would be fantastic for the brand. Not really sure if it's worth it from a cost/benefit perspective, but it certainly hurts that they can't lure younger people. I know acura does it cheap with the civic/ILX, but not sure Lincold needs a focus variant.

 

Really?? You think Lincoln needs to make a copy of a copy?? That's how you stand out??

 

Have you seen ATS sales?? Don't get me wrong, it is a good car, but it gives no one a compelling reason to buy it. Why should they ditch their perfectly fine BMW lease, to buy a copy?? So, Lincoln should try to do the same thing that Infinity and Cadillac have been unsuccessful at................... making a better 3-series. Good luck with that.

 

I am SICK and TIRED of so many people wanting Lincoln to be another BMW clone. "They have to make a 3-series, they have to make a 5-series, etc." How about they just make great Lincolns. American luxury. Fantastic cars to look at, be seen in, and drive with great technology, a comfortable ride, but sporting pretensions when you want it................... not sporting pretensions at the cost of everything else. Lincoln is not so much damaged, as it is invisible. Very different issue. The vast majority of buyers, if you ask them what they think of Lincoln, will say "they still make cars??" Not, "they suck and should die a fiery death." If they fix the dealership experience (which they are working on) and fix the line-up (which they are working on), they will be fine.

 

One thing they should never be is CHEAP. Then they will just be another Buick.

[EBFlex]

One thing they should never be is CHEAP. Then they will just be another Buick.

 

Buick. The brand that moved 16,393 vehicles last month, an increase of almost 14% for the month of July and an increase of 12.1% year over year. While Lincoln's best product, the MKZ was down 7.4% from July last year and down 1.8% for the year. Overall, Lincoln was down 0.8% for the month of July and down 7.6% for the year. Their best product for the year has been the Navigator. Overall, Lincoln moved 6,919 units in July.

 

Lincoln would be wise to study Buick and why they are able to move so much metal. At this point, getting people in the vehicles and talking is their most important priority. If incentives do that, bring them on. The Ford brand can be Lincoln's safety net for a while.

[Extreme4x4]

Buick moves more metal because Buicks are much cheaper than Lincolns.

 

Please show me all of the Lincolns that start in the low/mid $20's.

 

Or, do you advocate Lincoln starts using plastialuminum trim, and wood from the plastiwood tree??

[silvrsvt]

Buick. The brand that moved 16,393 vehicles last month, an increase of almost 14% for the month of July and an increase of 12.1% year over year. While Lincoln's best product, the MKZ was down 7.4% from July last year and down 1.8% for the year. Overall, Lincoln was down 0.8% for the month of July and down 7.6% for the year. Their best product for the year has been the Navigator. Overall, Lincoln moved 6,919 units in July.

 

Lincoln would be wise to study Buick and why they are able to move so much metal. At this point, getting people in the vehicles and talking is their most important priority. If incentives do that, bring them on. The Ford brand can be Lincoln's safety net for a while.

 

 

Ford doesn't need to drag Lincoln to Buicks level...the Ti trim models for Ford are just as nice or nicer then their Buick counterparts, are cheaper for Ford do internally and are profitable overall...

[aneekr]

One thing they should never be is CHEAP. Then they will just be another Buick.

 

If Lincoln does manage to "be another Buick", it will be a significant improvement over Lincoln's current state (which can be summarized as "completely irrelevant").

[Edstock]

Lincoln would be wise to study Buick and why they are able to move so much metal. At this point, getting people in the vehicles and talking is their most important priority. If incentives do that, bring them on. The Ford brand can be Lincoln's safety net for a while.

 

Yes, and stay away from that approach. Lincoln is not Buick. You seem to have a comprehension problem. Lincoln understands this, in a word: bespoke. Consult your dictionary.

 

If Lincoln does manage to "be another Buick", it will be a significant improvement over Lincoln's current state (which can be summarized as "completely irrelevant").

 

In your opinion. Maybe they can do an AMG version of Lincolns, you know, like adding stuff to standard M-B ho-hum luxury cars so they are less boring?

 

In your opinion Lincoln is "completely irrelevant"; mine is shared with Gloria: Lincoln has been invisible to the luxury market. Things will change. You will like change.

[RichardJensen]

Lincoln's current state (which can be summarized as "completely irrelevant").

 

You remember when Ford was moving like 10k Fusions a month? Were you all going on and on about how irrelevant Ford and the Fusion were back then?

[drob23]

Really?? You think Lincoln needs to make a copy of a copy?? That's how you stand out??

 

Have you seen ATS sales?? Don't get me wrong, it is a good car, but it gives no one a compelling reason to buy it. Why should they ditch their perfectly fine BMW lease, to buy a copy?? So, Lincoln should try to do the same thing that Infinity and Cadillac have been unsuccessful at................... making a better 3-series. Good luck with that.

 

I am SICK and TIRED of so many people wanting Lincoln to be another BMW clone. "They have to make a 3-series, they have to make a 5-series, etc." How about they just make great Lincolns. American luxury. Fantastic cars to look at, be seen in, and drive with great technology, a comfortable ride, but sporting pretensions when you want it................... not sporting pretensions at the cost of everything else. Lincoln is not so much damaged, as it is invisible. Very different issue. The vast majority of buyers, if you ask them what they think of Lincoln, will say "they still make cars??" Not, "they suck and should die a fiery death." If they fix the dealership experience (which they are working on) and fix the line-up (which they are working on), they will be fine.

 

One thing they should never be is CHEAP. Then they will just be another Buick.

Just stating my personal opinion, so yes, I would want them to make a copy of a copy of the e46 3 series. Lexus did the exact same thing with the new IS and has been beating the 3 series at it's own game lately, although whether this translates to the sales column remains to be seen. The new F30 is worse than ever before and BMW is moving more towards luxury and size rather than small sports cars. I personally think the compact luxury sports sedan is fantastic and would love to see Lincoln attempt to be relevant here. But I understand that this isn't where their immediate focus should be.

 

Like another poster mentioned, the compact CUV is probably where the most market potential lies, and Ford already has some fantastic platforms to build off of, and it makes perfect sense to devote all resources to that. There's a reason BMW has the plant in SC and Audi is making them in Mexico. I understand that turning the brand around is not an instant flick of the switch, just stating that I think the entry luxury segment is needed to bring people into the brand. I'm 30 and have lots of friends who are into cars and I've never heard one of them mention Lincoln.

[RichardJensen]

whether this translates to the sales column remains to be seen

I'll give you a "bold" prediction: It won't.

 

The 3-Series sells because of BMW's cachet. Period. Dang thing's got vinyl seats in the base model, and they still charge over $32k for it.

[drob23]

I'll give you a "bold" prediction: It won't.

 

The 3-Series sells because of BMW's cachet. Period. Dang thing's got vinyl seats in the base model, and they still charge over $32k for it.

I didn't mean in terms of absolute sales, the 3 series will obviously kill it. BMWFS subsidized leases in the US doesn't hurt the equation either. Agreed that 3 series is not great value, esp once you tick option boxes. But I'm guessing a big goal is to bring people in with the 3er after college and then upsell them to 5 series or SUV's later in life which have staggering margins.

 

I'm not sure exactly how you can measure the affect of a car like this, but it would appear that Lexus is doing better last month, and I presume the new IS is playing a large part in this (see change in % from past months).

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/01/july-2013-its-gettin-hot-in-here-edition/

[akirby]

IS is way up this month but still down for the year. It's still a minor player compared to the ES and RX.

[RichardJensen]

I didn't mean in terms of absolute sales, the 3 series will obviously kill it. BMWFS subsidized leases in the US doesn't hurt the equation either. Agreed that 3 series is not great value, esp once you tick option boxes. But I'm guessing a big goal is to bring people in with the 3er after college and then upsell them to 5 series or SUV's later in life which have staggering margins.

 

I think the 3-series has some pretty impressive margins as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it contributes more to BMW's profit than the 5-Series. And yeah, those CUVs are profit machines for BMW.

[akirby]

I think the 3-series has some pretty impressive margins as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it contributes more to BMW's profit than the 5-Series. And yeah, those CUVs are profit machines for BMW.

 

Given the sales volume worldwide and the number of variants off one platform I'd say the 3 series is a cash cow for BMW. But that doesn't mean others can clone it and get the same results.