EBFlex Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Can't poke fun at other makes but defend the same practice with Ford. But some are just fine with doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 But some are just fine with doing that. Nobody here is doing that. Nobody here says there is anything wrong with the Avalon/ES or Impala/XTS sharing a platform because they are differentiated just like the Fusion and MKZ. Selling carbon copies of the same car with little differentiation is bad (see 06 Fusion/Milan/Zephyr) because it adds unnecessary cost and complexity. You and V8-X seem to think that the platform IS the car, therefore cars that share platforms are the same. But you are in the minority when it comes to luxury car buyers. Most buyers care about exterior and interior styling, paint, leather, wood, gadgets, service, etc. They don't know or care about the platform - all they care about is how it looks and feels and how it drives. Let's compare the Fusion and a v6 MKZ: The same: floorpan, wiring, pcm, spare tire (guess), fuse box, battery, wiper motor, keyless entry/start Different roof, doors, fenders, quarter panels, trunk, hood, headlights, taillights, bumpers, wheels, suspension, glass, engine, transmission, mirrors seats, cooled seats, stereo (THX), carpet, center console, shifter, steering wheel, door panels, dash, gauge cluster, center stack, wood trim, heated rear seats, rear sunshade, automatic trunk, headliner If you just compare the MKZ to other luxury cars without worrying about the platform it compares very favorably and that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You and V8-X seem to think that the platform IS the car, therefore cars that share platforms are the same. I don't think that at all. By that insinuation, I think that the Taurus and the Flex are the exact same. Sorry, but I don't believe that. I also don't have an issue with platform sharing, unless the platform is garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 because the Fusion/MKZ are practically identical cars under the sheet metal, minus some upgrades for the MKZ, "minus some upgrades" — easy for you to say, but now, let's LOOK at what those words mean: Lots of Lincoln-specific small parts and large glass roof parts, with more parts in an MKZ plus the V-6 powertrain and the active suspension. They all have to be designed and built, to build an MKZ, and this component difference of look and quality (leather, door glass, etc.) turns the basic Ford platform into a Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Ok, so lets see you guys criticize the MKZ without mentioning the fusion or platform sharing. Pretend the fusion and mondeo don't exist. What's wrong with it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 That's pretty perceptive. I suppose the chief criticism is that there's no true sport trim, nor is the vehicle itself engineered to be a sport sedan.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Ok, so lets see you guys criticize the MKZ without mentioning the fusion or platform sharing. Pretend the fusion and mondeo don't exist. What's wrong with it? Not taking that bait. But I will say that aside from some of the minor issues with the MKZ, it's problems stem more from the brand that's selling it. Lincoln is just not in the same realm of circles as the big names. It will take a long time to get Lincoln where people take them seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Brand rep is always going to lag the quality of the product, whenever the quality of the product changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I don't think that at all. By that insinuation, I think that the Taurus and the Flex are the exact same. Sorry, but I don't believe that. I also don't have an issue with platform sharing, unless the platform is garbage. Then why the hell even bring it up? Why even BOTHER comparing the Fusion to the MKZ when in no discernible or meaningful way are they the same? It's precisely to attach a negative connotation to it. If VX-8 or you do not have a problem with an ES/Avalon or Infiniti/Nissan, etc...then there's NO REASON to even bring up that they share a platform. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Not taking that bait. But I will say that aside from some of the minor issues with the MKZ, it's problems stem more from the brand that's selling it. Lincoln is just not in the same realm of circles as the big names. It will take a long time to get Lincoln where people take them seriously. LMAO. "Not taking that bait." You mean "I can't create a defensible argument under those conditions because I really do mean "tarted up" and "platform sharing" as a negative." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 LMAO. "Not taking that bait." You mean "I can't create a defensible argument under those conditions because I really do mean "tarted up" and "platform sharing" as a negative." Winner winner chicken dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Winner winner chicken dinner. Nope. The question was hypothetical and not part of the reality at hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) here we go again... It all boils down to degree of differentiation, we know that this MKZ was locked in when Ford decided to rejuvenate Lincoln so it's not really a full example of the direction Ford want Lincoln to proceed with added differentiation. Look at MKC versus Escape and tell me Ford isn't getting better at this.. It also begs the question of what Luxury means to different people, to some it's an exclusive product, to others it's little more than a fashion accessory to be seen in.. Edited August 28, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Nope. The question was hypothetical and not part of the reality at hand. It's not hypothetical: What's wrong with the MKZ apart from the shared platform? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Also note that the dictionary does not deem it a compliment--M-W would be vastly overstepping their authority to make such a declaration. The point is, if you consider the LaCrosse to be a 'tarted up' Malibu, the ES to be a 'tarted up' Avalon, etc., and that you don't consider the phrase to be insulting, then what evidence do you have of this? Perhaps a card that you gave your wife, saying how nice she looked, all tarted-up for a night on the town. So you are correct and MW is wrong? Sorry, I'll side with MW, they've been classifying definitions much longer than all of us. Those models you stated are on point with the tarted up reference. And why would or should I have to prove anything to you? You are simply some individual poster on a forum I frequent from time to time that has no impact on on my life or day to day world. Your opinion differs from mine, which is okay, we are all granted such. But your opinion or personal definition doesn't matter in my world and doesn't require me to try and validate my reasoning and reasoning for such a phrase as "tarted-up". But some are just fine with doing that. As they always do. I like Ford, a lot, but will call a spade a spade. I'm not going to criticize one manufacturer for doing something then look the other way when Ford or another brand I prefer does the same. Ok, so lets see you guys criticize the MKZ without mentioning the fusion or platform sharing. Pretend the fusion and mondeo don't exist. What's wrong with it? Other than some fit/finish and initial quality issues, I have not heard of any issues. Edited August 28, 2013 by V8-X 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Not taking that bait. But I will say that aside from some of the minor issues with the MKZ, it's problems stem more from the brand that's selling it. Lincoln is just not in the same realm of circles as the big names. It will take a long time to get Lincoln where people take them seriously. see, now that I can agree with, but Lincoln is a work on progress...baby steps, and the Z is so far the BIGGEST step...and seriously I have to ask....what exactly is wrong with utilizing the Fusions platform?....by saying that are you saying the Fusions platform sucks...because it definitely doesnt, one of the best out there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's not hypothetical: What's wrong with the MKZ apart from the shared platform? and whats wrong with the platform they share?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) So you are correct and MW is wrong? Sorry, I'll side with MW, they've been classifying definitions much longer than all of us. And why would or should I have to prove anything to you? M-W provides connotative information only on the rarest of occasions. Their definition of 'tarted up' is denotative in the extreme. Contrast their definition with AHC3, which defines 'tart' thus: "To dress up or make fancy in a tawdry garish way." And to further that point, please tell your wife that she looks tarted up and see if she accepts it as a compliment. If you want connotative info, you should not look to M-W. -- "Why would I prove anything to you?" Out of respect for logical and coherent discourse. The principle that I will tell you what I think and why I think it. That I won't insist that you accept something strictly on my own say-so. Edited August 28, 2013 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 and whats wrong with the platform they share?... That is exactly our point. There is nothing wrong with the CD4 platform, and it is the chief means by which naysayers attack the MKZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 That is exactly our point. There is nothing wrong with the CD4 platform, and it is the chief means by which naysayers attack the MKZ. to quote a guy with pointy ears, thats illogical.....and no, its not the Travelocity Gnome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryVIII Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I want the "tarted up" Retractable Glass Roof option on my Fusion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's not hypothetical: What's wrong with the MKZ apart from the shared platform? Quality control issues aside, the MKZ's main demerits for me when I drove one at a Ford sponsored event earlier this year were outward visibility, controls, interior space utilization, seat comfort, and programming for the semi-active suspension system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I want the "tarted up" Retractable Glass Roof option on my Fusion! Do you also want diminished headroom and compromised rearward visibility when the retractable glass room is open? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) Quality control issues aside, the MKZ's main demerits for me when I drove one at a Ford sponsored event earlier this year were outward visibility, controls, interior space utilization, seat comfort, and programming for the semi-active suspension system. Oh, so it was largely a question of personal preference, then? As 'controls', 'seat comfort' and 'suspension' are all areas where reasonable people may have different yet equally valid opinions. And weren't the objections to 'interior space utilization' and 'outward visibility' due to a piece of optional equipment? Edited August 28, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 vinegar is just tarted up wine............. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.