Obamacare-Because this needs it's own thread

[Edstock]

Access to health care is important, when you're living in poverty, including birth control and education.

 

According to The Detroit News:

 

Doctor: Detroit abortion stats 'like some Third World country'

 

The good news is that it used to be even worse:

 

The city’s abortion rate peaked in 2008, coinciding with the worst year of the recession and increasing cutbacks in social safety net programs. Infant mortality and child homicides peaked the same year, according to a Detroit News study.

[xr7g428]

Calling Detroit a "third world country" is an insult to third world countries.

Edited May 25, 2014 by xr7g428

[the_spaniard]

Look again. You have proposed to leave for Galt's Gulch. And in doing so, effectively joined John Gault, Dagny Taggart, Francisco d'Anconia, Ragnar Danneskjold, Quentin Daniels, Midas Mulligan, and others. Who then leave the country to suffer the self inflicted consequences of the decisions they made, thereby leaving the country while it sorted itself out.

 

VERY much like I asserted.

 

The only thing in common is someone leaving. The country isn't imploding due to socialism. The country is in a state of gridlock because our system of government is based on compromise and we have extremist children painting anyone that compromises as not liberal/conservative enough and calling people Hitler/racist for disagreeing with them.

 

I'm not part of a group heading out while the US destroys itself and then coming back to pick at it's bones like some selfish vulture. I'm just talking about a nice extended vacation. I'm not quite as selfish as those corporate "heroes".

 

I've had to waste my vote trying to keep the worst of two evils out of office.

 

 

Exactly why I voted for Obama last time. Not that I thought he was a great choice, but because I felt the competition was just that poor.

Edited May 26, 2014 by the_spaniard

[the_spaniard]

 

 

Thank-you! OMG both of 'em were excruciating to read. Elron had the benefit of tutelage from John Campbell, the editor at Astounding SF magazine, so he theoretically had an easier writing style, but IMHO — Elron sucks. He even gave us a 10-volume "dekalogy" or whatever he called it to really savor his writing 'skill'.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare-faced_Messiah

 

The story of Elron. A real hoot. What a piece of work.

 

I always tend to lump Rand and Hubbard together...mostly because they are two prime examples of best-selling authors that are terrible writers (for different reasons) between them. Hubbard just has bad ideas, Rand just really, really, really needs an editor. I don't agree with her ideas, but I don't fault her for them. Her presentation is just horrible. With the lack of back story and character development in Atlus Shrugged, it could have been a short story.

 

I have got to read Bare-Faced Messiah. Hubbard was always a legend in his own mind. And yes, his Sci-Fi was terrible.

 

 

 

"I'm in your garden...auditing your Tomatoes!"

Edited May 25, 2014 by the_spaniard

[cal50]

 

The country is in a state of gridlock because our system of government is based on compromise and we have extremist children painting anyone that compromises as not liberal/conservative enough and calling people Hitler/racist for disagreeing with them.

 

Exactly why I voted for Obama last time. Not that I thought he was a great choice, but because I felt the competition was just that poor.

 

 

Gridlock is one thing, spending far more money that the government is collecting in taxes is bad, printing more paper ($$$) to dampen the increased rate of spending is insane and hurts everyone.

Between Romney and Obama both were / are not great picks but Romney had real experience with spending and actually working with people in a government setting. Obama / zero.

 

Until the congress and house is purged of self serving life long politicians that sign bills to spend more when the money is not there little will change irregardless of who the president is.

In Obama's case I feel he has demonstrated he is WAY over his head, has a poor sense of direction and digging a deeper hole for the next guy.

[Edstock]

At the other end of the rainbow, if you haven't, do read "Daemon" by Daniel Suarez. Nice to know it's just fiction.

[akirby]

Can one of you liberals explain why it's ok to keep spending money we don't have and to keep increasing the debt ceiling?

 

What do you think is going to happen to the debt? Do you understand how hard it will be to pay it down or do you think it will just be written off someday?

 

I give the Republicans a tiny amount of credit for at least trying to stop the debt ceiling increase.

[the_spaniard]

Gridlock is one thing, spending far more money that the government is collecting in taxes is bad, printing more paper ($$$) to dampen the increased rate of spending is insane and hurts everyone.

Between Romney and Obama both were / are not great picks but Romney had real experience with spending and actually working with people in a government setting. Obama / zero.

 

Until the congress and house is purged of self serving life long politicians that sign bills to spend more when the money is not there little will change irregardless of who the president is.

In Obama's case I feel he has demonstrated he is WAY over his head, has a poor sense of direction and digging a deeper hole for the next guy.

 

Again, I was not thrilled to vote for Obama, but the republicans had done nothing but obstruct. With the economy in shambles from an economic crisis they contributed to their goal was making the president a one-term president, country be damned. Their primary was an absolute circus. Whatever credibility Romney had his party gladly squandered. Republicans really need to not do that again. It probably didn't do Romney any favors.

 

While Romney may have had business chops, that is all he had. I am well aware that we need to reel in spending, and the current crop of democrats aren't going to do that. In some ways, Obama is way over his head, but republicans have to become much more moderate for them to get my vote. Their own autopsy of their last presidential election loss stated they need to be more moderate to appeal to women and minorities. Since then they have moved more to the right and have done nothing to appeal to women and minorities, and it will likely cost them the next presidential election, particularly if the Dems run Hillary.

 

The democrats need to get spending under control and the republicans need to realize there aren't enough hard right old white guys voting to win a presidential election. American demographics have changed. Once again, where is the moderate republican candidate that is a fiscal conservative but moderate on social issues and the environment? Because that guy would probably have no problem being elected president.

[the_spaniard]

At the other end of the rainbow, if you haven't, do read "Daemon" by Daniel Suarez. Nice to know it's just fiction.

 

Nowadays I don't have much time to read fiction, but the premise of this sounds interesting...and a little terrifying.

[cal50]

 

Again, I was not thrilled to vote for Obama, but the republicans had done nothing but obstruct. With the economy in shambles from an economic crisis they contributed to their goal was making the president a one-term president, country be damned.

 

 

Exactly how did any republican obstruct when the president , house and senate was in complete control by democrats ?

 

A simple party line vote by democrats and they could have passed anything they wanted and no one could have stopped any of it.

Truth be told there was more infighting in the democrat ranks which stalled things, for years.

The house midterm loss of seats was because of Obama and the brain damaged senate majority that might change as well in the near future.

 

Obama and the democrat party has done the most damage to itself from their own actions and lack of action when needed.

Irregardless if people like or hate Obama before or now his policies are pretty clearly not working and making things worse.

 

Perhaps you were not thrilled voting for Obama but you did select the less qualified guy plain & simple.

[chevys]

 

 

Exactly how did any republican obstruct when the president , house and senate was in complete control by democrats ?

 

A simple party line vote by democrats and they could have passed anything they wanted and no one could have stopped any of it.

Truth be told there was more infighting in the democrat ranks which stalled things, for years.

The house midterm loss of seats was because of Obama and the brain damaged senate majority that might change as well in the near future.

 

Obama and the democrat party has done the most damage to itself from their own actions and lack of action when needed.

Irregardless if people like or hate Obama before or now his policies are pretty clearly not working and making things worse.

 

Perhaps you were not thrilled voting for Obama but you did select the less qualified guy plain & simple.

+1 and the D's are going to pay for it this midterm in the Senate. O-care is coming home to roost and people dont like it. They stand zero chance of taking the house. Seriously, the vast majority of the O adminstration has never had a real world job or operated a business. They are a bunch of beauracrats in over their heads. This is going to be a case study one day in liberal policies.

 

I stay frustrated at the Republicans for not standing their ground and constantly giving in to things like raising the debt ceiling and I hold them accountable as well. Ever heard of the tea party? What is so radical about wanting fiscal responsibility once and for all?

[Edstock]

 

Nowadays I don't have much time to read fiction, but the premise of this sounds interesting...and a little terrifying.

 

Scary, because it's so plausible; I've been hacking away at PC's since 87, and there isn't much in "Daemon" that can't be done today. The second novel. "Freedom" concludes that story.

 

IMHO, Suarez third novel "Kill Decision" is even more dangerous. It ponders autonomous swarming drones. Again, a lot of this is off-the-shelf, not pie-in-the-sky, FTL-warp-factor SF whiz.

[Edstock]

 

Irregardless if people like or hate Obama before or now his policies are pretty clearly not working and making things worse.

 

 

irregardless

Used by people who ignorantly mean to say regardless. According to Webster, it is a word, but since the prefix "ir" and the suffx "less" both mean "not or with" they cancel each other out, so what you end up with is regard. When you use this to try to say you don't care about something, you end up saying that you do.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=irregardless

 

 

REGARDLESS of whether Goppers are Baggers, Birthers, Climate-Change Deniers and other embarrassments, there seems to be an indication that it is time for the GOP to support public education. Seriously, if it keeps up, the next generation of working-class Goppers might not be able to read the writing on the wall.

[cal50]

 

 

irregardless

Used by people who ignorantly mean to say regardless. According to Webster, it is a word, but since the prefix "ir" and the suffx "less" both mean "not or with" they cancel each other out, so what you end up with is regard. When you use this to try to say you don't care about something, you end up saying that you do.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=irregardless

 

 

REGARDLESS of whether Goppers are Baggers, Birthers, Climate-Change Deniers and other embarrassments, there seems to be an indication that it is time for the GOP to support public education. Seriously, if it keeps up, the next generation of working-class Goppers might not be able to read the writing on the wall.

 

 

Using your derogatory slang word "goppers" did not address the question, it merely tried to shift the focus or direction to imply some group of people can not read.

That is a pretty weak and age old tactic.

 

Please list in detail some of Obama's programs that ARE working.

 

Underemployment / unemployment still worse than when he started, a LOT worse if you are black.

Obamacare is it own disaster and the numbers have yet to be released or "show the math".

A serious lack of honesty and addressing multiple issues that are real and no real answers provided.

 

Maybe its good Obama CAN read since he claims he reads about his mismanagement and scandalous activity in newspapers, its his comprehension level that needs work.

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

 

Using your derogatory slang word "goppers" did not address the question, it merely tried to shift the focus or direction to imply some group of people can not read.

That is a pretty weak and age old tactic.

 

Please list in detail some of Obama's programs that ARE working.

 

Underemployment / unemployment still worse than when he started, a LOT worse if you are black.

Obamacare is it own disaster and the numbers have yet to be released or "show the math".

A serious lack of honesty and addressing multiple issues that are real and no real answers provided.

 

Maybe its good Obama CAN read since he claims he reads about his mismanagement and scandalous activity in newspapers, its his comprehension level that needs work.

Just because he "CAN" read doesn't mean he will. As long as he doesn't, he can claim plausible deniability.

 

His handlers are very careful about what they DO tell him. A dumb president is a defendable president.

[CurtisH]

 

Scary, because it's so plausible; I've been hacking away at PC's since 87, and there isn't much in "Daemon" that can't be done today. The second novel. "Freedom" concludes that story.

 

IMHO, Suarez third novel "Kill Decision" is even more dangerous. It ponders autonomous swarming drones. Again, a lot of this is off-the-shelf, not pie-in-the-sky, FTL-warp-factor SF whiz.

I really liked "Daemon" and "Freedom". I'll have to add "Kill Decision" to my reading list.

[akirby]

REGARDLESS of whether Goppers are Baggers, Birthers, Climate-Change Deniers and other embarrassments, there seems to be an indication that it is time for the GOP to support public education. Seriously, if it keeps up, the next generation of working-class Goppers might not be able to read the writing on the wall.

If you can't make your point without using derogatory nicknames then stop posting. It's nasty and it only leads to more name calling and general nastiness that we don't need.

[cal50]

If you can't make your point without using derogatory nicknames then stop posting. It's nasty and it only leads to more name calling and general nastiness that we don't need.

 

 

 

Most people can talk about their own views or feelings on a topic. If you repeat the words of others you run out of words pretty quickly.

A parrot can repeat what its told but good luck having a conversation unless you bring crackers.

[the_spaniard]

 

 

Exactly how did any republican obstruct when the president , house and senate was in complete control by democrats ?

 

A simple party line vote by democrats and they could have passed anything they wanted and no one could have stopped any of it.

Truth be told there was more infighting in the democrat ranks which stalled things, for years.

The house midterm loss of seats was because of Obama and the brain damaged senate majority that might change as well in the near future.

 

Obama and the democrat party has done the most damage to itself from their own actions and lack of action when needed.

 

 

Well we are talking about Romney vs Obama. How much time was wasted on the "birther" nonsense? How many fruitless votes to repeal Obamacare? How many filibusters? All during the worst economic climate since the great depression. Nope, no obstructionism there. Glad they could focus on what was really important. And yes, democrats can share a lot of that blame too.

 

 

Irregardless if people like or hate Obama before or now his policies are pretty clearly not working and making things worse.

Perhaps you were not thrilled voting for Obama but you did select the less qualified guy plain & simple.

 

 

As much your opinion as your favorite color. Trying to present it as fact does not make it so.

[BlackHorse]

America, wasted on the Americans.

 

One side is full of people who want to take the country back to some puritanical 1950's version of America that never existed and the other side is full of people who just want to smoke weed and let the government hand them a check every month for doing nothing.

[the_spaniard]

+1 and the D's are going to pay for it this midterm in the Senate. O-care is coming home to roost and people dont like it. They stand zero chance of taking the house. Seriously, the vast majority of the O adminstration has never had a real world job or operated a business. They are a bunch of beauracrats in over their heads. This is going to be a case study one day in liberal policies.

 

I stay frustrated at the Republicans for not standing their ground and constantly giving in to things like raising the debt ceiling and I hold them accountable as well. Ever heard of the tea party? What is so radical about wanting fiscal responsibility once and for all?

 

Interesting theories, but the fat lady hasn't quite sung yet. I don't believe the democrats will take the house. There likely will not be any spanking. So what exactly will change? Likely nothing. More gridlock, and more after that if the republicans ignore (again) women and minorities by staying as far right as possible, because Hillary will likely win if she runs. Then what? More gridlock. And then a hell of a lot more spending we don't need.

 

Regardless of their libertarian origins, the TP is now seen as ultra-conservative. Until they change that, they likely don't have a chance. There is nothing radical about fiscal responsibility (unless you are an extremist democrat), but all of the other things that come along with hard-right conservatism are a bitter pill for many to swallow.

 

You can't have a reform party largely composed of the extremists of one side of the political spectrum.

 

Immigration reform also looms after the can is sufficiently kicked. And like it or not, there will likely be some road to amnesty, given we simply don't have the resources to track down and deport some 12 million illegals.

Edited May 26, 2014 by the_spaniard

[cal50]

 

Well we are talking about Romney vs Obama. How much time was wasted on the "birther" nonsense? How many fruitless votes to repeal Obamacare? How many filibusters? All during the worst economic climate since the great depression. Nope, no obstructionism there. Glad they could focus on what was really important. And yes, democrats can share a lot of that blame too.

 

 

As much your opinion as your favorite color. Trying to present it as fact does not make it so.

 

 

 

And what part of the democrats controlled all houses and passed exactly what on their own ?

Those same dems were responsible for a record number of lost seats in the house for dems which was poetic justice of sorts, Like running with scissors and falling on them, blame yourself not others.

 

 

It is a fact Obama had far less on his resume than Romney.

A Governor of any state* is more relevant job experience than a person that never held that lower position.

 

* Carter proved experience does not carry over to a higher tier.

 

 

The worse economic climate since the great depression was prolonged by Obama, not minimized today or starting about six years ago. If anything he lumped on more unfunded spending , debt , new taxes on a crippled economy.

Its a hell of a mess for the next president , house and senate to deal with.

[cal50]

 

. More gridlock, and more after that if the republicans ignore (again) women and minorities by staying as far right as possible, .

 

 

 

If you are a minority the unemployment rate is much higher under Obama than the prior administration.

I would much rather be ignored than be out of a job with Obama or the democrats help.

 

Ignoring women and minorities is such a load of crap.

[the_spaniard]

And what part of the democrats controlled all houses and passed exactly what on their own ?

Those same dems were responsible for a record number of lost seats in the house for dems which was poetic justice of sorts, Like running with scissors and falling on them, blame yourself not others.

 

It is a fact Obama had far less on his resume than Romney.

A Governor of any state* is more relevant job experience than a person that never held that lower position.

 

* Carter proved experience does not carry over to a higher tier.

 

 

Obama already had four years as president by the time Romney came along. That trumps any experience Romney had by a large margin. Romney may indeed be a better businessman, but that is not all the job is about.

 

The worse economic climate since the great depression was prolonged by Obama, not minimized today or starting about six years ago.

 

Again, opinion. No evidence that Romney could have done it better, or would not have done worse.

 

If anything he lumped on more unfunded spending , debt , new taxes on a crippled economy.

 

 

Debt, yes. New taxes, arguable. Even if you consider the ACA a tax, there is no evidence it has been the disaster that republicans have been saying it is. In a few years, a legitimate assessment can be made.

 

Its a hell of a mess for the next president , house and senate to deal with.

 

 

When it comes to spending, then yes.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Again, opinion. No evidence that Romney could have done it better, or would not have done worse.

 

The obverse of your assertion would be:

 

No evidence that Romney could not have done better, or would have done worse.

 

As much as I am convinced that Obama is a poor president, I cannot see his efforts as anything but impeding the recovery of the economy. Doing the wrong things at the wrong time, in the wrong manner, for the wrong reasons. And I have honestly attempted to see his actions in an open-minded manner. However prone to internal bias that may seem, I have to stand by my own self-awareness and my "sniff test" says he just doesn't pass muster. Something about his actions and his mannerisms smell foul, and his lip service to the contrary, I cannot accept his stated intentions as benevolent rather than malevolent.

 

I think 2012 was America's chance to make another "Change" and we are suffering that failure today.

Edited May 27, 2014 by FiredMotorCompany