630land Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 "What did those in the wintery climates do before FWD?" Got out and pushed, added weight in the trunk, drove slow, and carried salt. Sure if you got ABS, traction control, and a 'posi/trac-loc', you can drive better. But didn't have that in common cars in the blizzards of '79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) It is funny that everyone thinks that Ford needs to dump FWD and the reason their products are not the best sellers right now is because they are FWD. The midsized and fullsized cars that continue to grow marketshare every year are from the Japanese and they are all FWD. Looks like people still favor FWD no matter how much the "enthusiasts" argue that FWD is the worse thing that was ever developed. I think in the next few years, economy will become much more important then which wheels are being driven. Ask most people why they buy Toyota or Honda and I bet the reason you will get right after their reputation for quaility is their superior fuel economy. Heck you will probably get the same answers from someone that has bought a Toyota Sequoia. In fuel economy, Ford's sedans are very competitive, but that is NOT what the average consumer thinks. They think the Camry will be very fuel efficient and the Fusion will be a guzzler. Now this is not the truth at all, but that is what they think no matter what the sticker on the side of the car says. The 500 has a great platform for it's intended audience. The only thing it needs is the Duratec 35 and some bolder styling. I don't think it's too late. If it's a good car and gets some good improvements it will become fairly successful. Remember the Taurus did not really take off until a couple years after they started building it and it did not start setting sales records until the first redesign (1992) that made it a much more attractive car. "What did those in the wintery climates do before FWD?" Got out and pushed, added weight in the trunk, drove slow, and carried salt. Sure if you got ABS, traction control, and a 'posi/trac-loc', you can drive better. But didn't have that in common cars in the blizzards of '79. One thing that still works against rear wheel drive cars today at least in the Northern climate, especially the Midwest where Detroit still has a big marketshare is that people remember those old cars. The ones with no fancy traction control or ABS. The little Fairmonts, Pinto's, etc. that were worthless on an icy street or road. There is a very large chunk of people that buy cars today that had horrible experiences in the old fashioned RWD cars. They are the people that even today will still look away when someone mentions it's rear wheel drive. I was curious so I took a look at the Sioux Falls, SD dealers on inventory left on the 2006 300's and Charger's. The Dodge dealer has only (6) RWD Chargers, 5 are V6 models and one is a RWD 6.1L monster. It appears that all of the AWD models are gone. Over at the Chrysler dealer, the inventory looks like the victim of high fuel prices. 22 total models remaining. (3) V6 RWD models, (18) 5.7 Hemi RWD models, and(1) RWD 6.1L left. So for both Chrysler dealers in Sioux Falls, SD the only stuff left is RWD and a lot of Hemi's. Looks like the AWD and V6 models have sold out first at least in this market. Sioux Falls Ford has (2) 2006 Five-Hundreds, one FWD SEL and one AWD Limited and has (3) Montego's which all three are Premier AWD models. Plus it appears they are starting to stock 2007 models at this time, while I can't find a 2007 for sale at the Chrysler dealers yet. I suppose they are trying to move the 2006's off the lot first. I bet a million dollars when it comes to ordering 300's and Charger's for 2007 dealers will switch to a much heavier mix of V6's on their lot and I bet Chrysler hates that because there is a lot more profit margin in selling Hemi's. Anyhow just by looking at the current inventory remaining at the dealers in one city you can see exactly the effect of $3.00 fuel. Edited August 15, 2006 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) I prefer the Impala over the 500. I don't really care that the platform is antiquated... It just looks better... Now if the upcoming facelift of the 500 does it any justice it could change my mind... But nothing about the looks of the current 500 evoke emotion except the fact that it looks like an 8 year old Passat... Edited August 15, 2006 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) Is it a bulkhead instead of a pass-through? You mean like every Japanese sedan I don't care for the Impala at all, but I do like the G6, they not only got rid of 190 square feet of cladding, they finally dumped the myrad of big grey rounded buttons they've had around since 1982. The convertible looks really good The Impala still looks like they all belong to members of the national Chevrolet owners club, you know, the one with the little green 'E' sticker on the backs. Edited August 15, 2006 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Just the European stuff we get over here. Nothing below the "Executive class" sedan in Europe is RWD. Nothing from nobody. It's all FWD/AWD. Mondeo on down--- Glad I didn't know that when I lived over there. I had a BMW 318 that was considered a "cheap" car by the Germans. They even had lesser models of the 3 series, 315 and 316 at that time. These have been replaced by the 1 series. All are RWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) The 500 is as attractive as a baboon's ass....that's the problem. Edited August 15, 2006 by ironhorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I had a BMW 318 that was considered a "cheap" car by the Germans. It was considered a cheap car by Americans too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 The Japanese though are playing both sides of the fence, with both FWD and RWD. Why is it that more affluent car buyers can drive RWD and the blue collars have to get the FWD? Most Lexus automobiles and Infiniti automobiles are RWD with or without optional AWD offerings. The G35 and M35/45-series Infinitis and the IS and LS Lexus models are RWD...and those are the most desirable from those brands. If the Japanese can build enjoyable and safe RWD sedans, why not the Americans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 "It just looks better... " It's like saying beige is better looking than tan paint. Most Ford fans just have an axe to grind sicne the 500 doesn't look like the 427 or Forty Nine concepts. The Impala looks like a Hyundai copy of a Kia copy of a 1996 Lumina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 They both have bland dull styling but any vehicle next to the 500 will look like a ferarri because the 500 is the poster child of dull boring design, it isn't sleek like some toyota that maybe dull but atleast they are sleak. Anyways i owuld pick the 500 over the Impala, but i would pick a Avalon over both until atleast ford gets the refresh here, but even then the interior is not changing from the "tried to copy an audi interior but ruined it by having to digging through the Fords parts bin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bec5150 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Let me tell you what the GM platform has shown me, at least the 3800/4spd auto drivetrain in this platform. My father in law has a 1998 Olds Intrigue with 188K miles. He has had to replace the brake master cyl and the automatic climate control thermometer. That's it. It has proven to be a fairly bulletproof platform. The 60 degree V-6's have been pretty decent, intake gaskets notwithstanding, but it's the 90 degree 3800 that has proven to be a rock of an engine even if it is an old design. While the Duratec has been a damn good motor, it seems the Ford FWD transmissons have a fairly high failure rate. This is what scared me when they came out with the CVT as I have reservations about whether the CVT will stay in one piece for the long term, long term being 150K+ miles. Now with all of that, I will say that the 500 rides and drives so much better than the Impala that it's not even funny. Yes, you can get the Impala with a V-8 but I simply don't care. I said it more than once that my Aunt's 500 (FWD/CVT) has to be one of the nicest cars I have driven in recent memory. It is HUGE, rides great, handles good, and to me seems to have more than enough power for it's intended purpose. And being a "twist and go" scooter enthusiest, I LOVE the CVT. Just please, let it stay in one piece. One more thing...any vehicle that is RWD automatically gets lined off of my list. FWD has proven to be so much better in snow and ice it's not even worth considering RWD unless I am buying a sports coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Most Ford fans just have an axe to grind sicne the 500 doesn't look like the 427 or Forty Nine concepts. Why the hell shouldn't we? Ford really screwed the pooch letting those two go. Look what we got instead: bland on wheels. Does it really seem like a good idea to try and out-Camry Toyota? One more thing...any vehicle that is RWD automatically gets lined off of my list. FWD has proven to be so much better in snow and ice it's not even worth considering RWD unless I am buying a sports coupe. And you: learn how to drive. I cut my teeth steering a big old Galaxie up to the mountain pass ski areas on compact snow and black ice. I could play that car like a Stradivarius on the slick stuff, and it never let me down - chains or not. I wouldn't be so pissy, except that on any kind of road, RWD is just so much more rewarding to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) By spring, the 500 will get new styling, and the 2008 Malibu will show it's face. The FWD Impala will be as fresh as a 1982 Celebrity. "Why the hell shouldn't we? Ford really screwed the pooch letting [427/49] go. Look what we got instead: bland on wheels." The 427 concept face is in the Fusion and future cars. RWD? maybe. The 49 concept would have been another $45K Retro toy for the rich, sold to a few and dropped, like the Chevy SSR or Mopar Prowler. Better that the $$ was spent on Stang and the GT as 'halo' cars. Young buyers don't care about 40s-50's car looks. Edited August 16, 2006 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 (edited) Young buyers don't care about 40s-50's car looks. Tell that to my son, retro-boy (18 years old, owns a '65 Mustang - but what he really wants is a '56 Buick). You may be right about the '49 - and I know I'm way out here on this one (because I've never heard anybody else suggest this), but I envisioned them keeping it fresh the same way you see BMW starting to do with the Mini, and to a lesser extent, Chrysler with the PT Cruiser (I suggest Chrysler expand on this greatly): by simply adding to the lineup. By the time they were through, I would have everything that full-size Ford had in the early 50's: High-end Coupe (like the concept) with a Thunderbird V8, "Business Coupe" stripper with a 6-cyl, manual tranny, and radio blank-out panel, Convertible, 4 door sedan, high end and low end variants - maybe a diesel for taxi service, 2 door and 4 door wagons - Country Sedan and Country Squire (wood grain, roof rack, and all), Police Interceptor, 2 Door Sedan Delivery (van), and a Ranchero. Plain Jane, or optioned up with serious motor, xenon headlamps, Sat Nav, and stink-gorgeous. I could so have found something I'd want in a lineup like that. Quick show of hands: Is there anybody reading this who wouldn't find something they'd want in a lineup like that? The concept was beautiful. And they wouldn't have been trying to out-Camry the Camry. Edited August 17, 2006 by retro-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hmmmm, all the points made here are excellent food for thought. Why couldn't Ford builds an everyman's 427? (affordable and cool) I agree that Chrysler should expand on the PTC (which was supposed to be the modle to save the Plymouth). And why doesn't Ford get a piece of this segment? It is pretty much agreed, although not 100% that the Impala is defineitely an Hyndai/Kia offspring which in it's current form, will never have any beauty or reddeming qualities. The last RWD platform I owned was a 1988 Aerostar which very poor in deep snow. I learned to drive on a '63 Chrysler Newport which weighed 4,200 poundd and never experience being stuck. My '78 Olds Cutlass was the absolute worst in snow. Weight distribution and sticking ability without enhancements works. My son just bought a '95 T-bird and has never driven anything but FWD. He's in for a few driving lessons but it can be done, with finesse and proper techniques as in the past. The 500 will improve it's looks with age and the RWD drive Imapala may have an impact on the Chrysler RWD's and the demise of the CV/GM. happy motoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8A4RE Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Ever since I've started seeing more and more of the new Chevy Impala tooling around the roads, I'm finding myself stunned by my reaction. That thing looks good! In fact, I think it looks better than the 500! The Impala looks a little leaner and meaner, and the higher-end model makes quite an impression with its ginormous wheels. The Impala design simply looks lighter and fresher, the 500 is extremely neutral with no attention paid to portion control. Hopefully the 500 will be more appropriate enhanced for 2008. I'm convinced there is a good body in there that's being hidden by lack of appropriate detailing. I drove the SS Impala autocross style at a Chevy sponsored driving event along with the Colbalt and Corvette that just happened to be close to me, very impressive car with 305 hp, are you listening Bill Jr! https://www.revitupracing.com/1589.html?pag...7649c7d&s=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bec5150 Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Does it have 305HP? Yes. Is the car itself impressive? Umm....not so much, though I do agree that HP, like big breasts on a woman, can sure make up for alot of shortcomings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8A4RE Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Does it have 305HP? Yes. Is the car itself impressive? Umm....not so much, though I do agree that HP, like big breasts on a woman, can sure make up for alot of shortcomings. I drove the Impala SS through some cones at wide open throttle, it is a big 4 door sedan and has typical body roll and dive under hard braking, but I walked away impressed, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DearbornDerek Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Well I guess I'll add my .02 cents. I just got a 2006 500 limited on Friday. I thought what a lot of posters here thought. I was not impressed by the car. Then I drove it. All I can say is that this car is much better than I thought it would be. I really like the feel and handling and it has plenty of get up and go. The interior is huge,I even fit very comfortably in the back seat and you could get lost in the trunk. I just picked up my kids (4 and 7) from a weekend camping with the in-laws and was able to fit all of thier bags and BOTH of thier bikes in the trunk. All in all this is a great car that I intend to have for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-rail Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Well I guess I'll add my .02 cents. I just got a 2006 500 limited on Friday. I thought what a lot of posters here thought. I was not impressed by the car. Then I drove it. All I can say is that this car is much better than I thought it would be. I really like the feel and handling and it has plenty of get up and go. The interior is huge,I even fit very comfortably in the back seat and you could get lost in the trunk. I just picked up my kids (4 and 7) from a weekend camping with the in-laws and was able to fit all of thier bags and BOTH of thier bikes in the trunk. All in all this is a great car that I intend to have for a long time. i have a 2006 Five Hunred SEl it is an awesome car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 (edited) I'll be the first to agree the Impala is a much better looking car then the Five Hundred. I rented an Impala on my last business trip to Dallas. The looks are only skin deep. It's handling and composure left alot to be desired. The interior (lower half of the dash) was ugly hard plastic. I have not driven a Five Hundred for comparison though. Edited August 20, 2006 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I suspect that the Chevy must sell boatloads of base Impalas for fleets to boost their numbers or there is some sort of bowtie brainwashing going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 So when do we get the Lumina APV with 305 hp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.