CAMRY #1 in the U.S.A. going on 12 years. What's being done to stop it?

[jpd80]

The ONLY thing that matters is Profit? Really? Only to the share holders maybe. If profit (greed) comes before customer satisfaction no business will survive in the long run. Without customers you have no PROFIT.

That's right, without customers paying more for products, you have no profit.

Striving for best in class products (while not necessarily achieving them) has seen for increase average transaction prices on most popular models.

that ATP is a reflection of buyer attitude, customers prepared to option up vehicles and pay more for well equipped versions spell good news for

the health of Ford's products. Build a base like that rather than trying to maximize outright sales has strengthened Ford financially.

Edited November 26, 2013 by jpd80

[akirby]

Which is better? Selling 400K vehicles with an average profit of $3K or selling 100K vehicles with an average profit of $20K?

[coupe3w]

Which is better? Selling 400K vehicles with an average profit of $3K or selling 100K vehicles with an average profit of $20K?

Selling 400K @ $3K profit. One it keeps a lot of people employed and two a lot more cars on the road that people see every day and say, I see a lot of those cars they must be a good product. That's they way I see it anyway.

PS as long as they don't skimp on the quality and get a lot of negative press (recalls).

Edited November 27, 2013 by coupe3w

[akirby]

Selling 400K @ $3K profit. One it keeps a lot of people employed and two a lot more cars on the road that people see every day and say, I see a lot of those cars they must be a good product. That's they way I see it anyway.

PS as long as they don't skimp on the quality and get a lot of negative press (recalls).

 

Please don't start a business. You won't make it.

 

With that slim of a profit margin the least mistake could take it away. One recall or big price war and you're losing money. If there is an economic downturn you now have 4 shifts of production in 2 plants instead of 1 shift in 1 plant.

 

You're spending 4 times as much capital for almost half as much profit. That's not wise investment.

[jpd80]

The savings by using less of a company's precious time and resources means the correct answer is 100K vehicles making $20K profit.

 

This is the basis of Ford's strategy to right size production to true market capacity.

 

Ford is getting up there with Fusion, it's taking time to win back generations of buyers sworn off Ford

Slowly but surely, the message is getting out that Ford is building great products and what customers want.

Tht is clearly being reflected in the increased transaction prices buyers are now paying for Fusion over Camry.

Edited November 27, 2013 by jpd80

[fordmantpw]

Selling 400K @ $3K profit. One it keeps a lot of people employed and two a lot more cars on the road that people see every day and say, I see a lot of those cars they must be a good product. That's they way I see it anyway.

PS as long as they don't skimp on the quality and get a lot of negative press (recalls).

 

Seriously? Please tell me you don't mean that. Do you work for GM by chance?

[All-Or-Nothing]

Selling 400K @ $3K profit. One it keeps a lot of people employed and two a lot more cars on the road that people see every day and say, I see a lot of those cars they must be a good product. That's they way I see it anyway.

PS as long as they don't skimp on the quality and get a lot of negative press (recalls).

 

 

Ha Ha.....(insert Not Sure If Serious pic here)

[akirby]

 

 

Ha Ha.....(insert Not Sure If Serious pic here)

 

That's the scary part - I think he is serious.

[156n3rd]

Sorry, I cannot understand why there are so many negatives about being on top. Dropping prices? Makes no sense. Manufacturing issues? That cannot be true. If you sell the top selling unit, you make it happen and sell and build more. And I can't discuss the original Taurus, which only sold 8 million! Ford did screw that up but by making the design crap. I have never heard of anyone NOT wanting to be ON TOP! Your reasons are silly.

[156n3rd]

The F-150 is the top selling truck in the land. Therefore, any argument made here against the Fusion is all wet.

[coupe3w]

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by coupe3w

[fordmantpw]

Sorry, I cannot understand why there are so many negatives about being on top. Dropping prices? Makes no sense. Manufacturing issues? That cannot be true. If you sell the top selling unit, you make it happen and sell and build more. And I can't discuss the original Taurus, which only sold 8 million! Ford did screw that up but by making the design crap. I have never heard of anyone NOT wanting to be ON TOP! Your reasons are silly.

 

Being on top is NOT bad, in and of itself. Being on top at the cost of profitability IS bad. See akirby's post below for a good explanation.

 

 

Please don't start a business. You won't make it.

 

With that slim of a profit margin the least mistake could take it away. One recall or big price war and you're losing money. If there is an economic downturn you now have 4 shifts of production in 2 plants instead of 1 shift in 1 plant.

 

You're spending 4 times as much capital for almost half as much profit. That's not wise investment.

[akirby]

Sorry, I cannot understand why there are so many negatives about being on top. Dropping prices? Makes no sense. Manufacturing issues? That cannot be true. If you sell the top selling unit, you make it happen and sell and build more. And I can't discuss the original Taurus, which only sold 8 million! Ford did screw that up but by making the design crap. I have never heard of anyone NOT wanting to be ON TOP! Your reasons are silly.

 

You misunderstand. If you can be #1 because people are willing to buy that many without using huge incentives or fleet dumping that's great (F150 e.g.). But you don't want to sacrifice unit profitability and long term viability just to be #1. E.g. Ford could put $4k incentives on the Fusion and sell a ton of them and possibly be #1. But that's stupid because the added incentives wipe out any additional profit from the added volume and you've now put a strain on your manufacturing and supply chains.

 

Camry and Accord did not make it to the 1 and 2 spots by discounting heavily. They made a good product at a fair price and they built up their customers and sales volume with repeat buyers over 20 years. It didn't happen overnight and Fusion won't be #1 overnight. It's also a lot harder today because there are far more competitive midsized sedans now than 20 years ago.

 

In summary - being #1 in and of itself doesn't mean anything. Being #1 because you have the most customers willing to buy your product consistently with decent profits is fantastic. The difference is how you get there.

[NickF1011]

The F-150 is the top selling truck in the land. Therefore, any argument made here against the Fusion is all wet.

The F-series is not the sales leader because of discounts and over-production.

 

Who mentioned earlier the ATP on Fusion vs Camry? Ford certainly can't be disappointed in Fusion's performance.

[jpd80]

It's simple math, Camry leads Fusion by 100,000 units but its average transaction price is like $3,000 less.

 

So in the real world, is 400,000 Camrys with ATP of $24,000 better than 300,000 Fusions with ATP of $27,000

and before you answer consider the savings on labor and resources not needed to build 100,000 cars.

 

While Ford may have 20% less revenue from total Fusion sales, Toyota's added costs from making 100,000 more vehicles

takes the shine off that profitability.

Edited November 28, 2013 by jpd80

[BrewfanGRB]

The ONLY thing that matters is Profit? Really? Only to the share holders maybe. If profit (greed) comes before customer satisfaction no business will survive in the long run. Without customers you have no PROFIT.

 

You missed the point. What I'm driving at is what does a sales lead have to do with profit. Or customer satisfaction? Or ANYTHING? Also, I assume you are either unemployed or work for minimum wage for a non-profit. No? Then think very, VERY carefully about this assumption that profit = greed. (Hyperbole is a poor debtaing tactic).

[BrewfanGRB]

All of your arguments make perfect sense. But what about pride in the name of Ford? Being number one in any competition is a coveted position to attain. When you stop trying to be the best by NOT trying to be, it shows in your customer loyalty base. Toyota is a pain the ass! It steps all over Ford in one of the most segments right here at home. The Camry is ugly. It is not like it is a trphy car. The Fusion has real beauty. Why WOULDN'T car buyrers NOT want one? Anyone whjo thinks being number one in this segment is blinded by odd values. Ford is American. It beats Chevy. It should beat Toyota too.

 

I can't even argue with this any further. I honestly don't even know where to start.

[BrewfanGRB]

Selling 400K @ $3K profit. One it keeps a lot of people employed and two a lot more cars on the road that people see every day and say, I see a lot of those cars they must be a good product. That's they way I see it anyway.

PS as long as they don't skimp on the quality and get a lot of negative press (recalls).

 

I literally just laughed out loud at my computer screen at you. Good Lord.

[630land]

Camry now has a 'cheapened' image by throwing cash on hoods, fleet dumping, and all the slow drivers who own one.

Why waste profits by cheapening the Fusion? Look how that worked for the old DN101 Taurus.

 

Let Camry be the old fuddy-duddy, nerdmobile, slow poke car, and keep Fusion fresh and exciting. That is "customer satisfaction".

Edited November 29, 2013 by 630land

[156n3rd]

akirby, I would appreciate you're NOT telling me what I should or should not do. I began this thread to talk about one topic. I am not in business and have no inention of doing so. I merely wanted to discuss the subject. I am pleased with the responses that were shared here, they show real knowledge. Whereas I still do not agree with all the data, it is my priviledge to feel what I feel and articluate same.

[akirby]

akirby, I would appreciate you're NOT telling me what I should or should not do. I began this thread to talk about one topic. I am not in business and have no inention of doing so. I merely wanted to discuss the subject. I am pleased with the responses that were shared here, they show real knowledge. Whereas I still do not agree with all the data, it is my priviledge to feel what I feel and articluate same.

 

I didn't tell you what to do or not to do. I merely tried to explain why being #1 is not necessarily a business goal and why it's sometimes better to be #2 or #3.

[jpd80]

Camry now has a 'cheapened' image by throwing cash on hoods, fleet dumping, and all the slow drivers who own one.

Why waste profits by cheapening the Fusion? Look how that worked for the old DN101 Taurus.

 

Let Camry be the old fuddy-duddy, nerdmobile, slow poke car, and keep Fusion fresh and exciting. That is "customer satisfaction".

One thing Toyota doesn't do with Camry is fleet dump, it dumps in retail by offering near fleet pricing /deals.

It must be hard for manufacturers like Ford to resist competing especially with growing inventory but it's much

smarter and better to slow production until sales pick up in March when Ford will no doubt work down that inventory.

 

Now is not the time to trade blows with Toyota, let them eat their own profits with give backs..

Edited November 29, 2013 by jpd80

[156n3rd]

Lee Iaccoca once said that having fleet sales represnts a product demonstration every time a car is driven by another person.

[papilgee4evaeva]

One thing Toyota doesn't do with Camry is fleet dump, it dumps in retail by offering near fleet pricing /deals.

It must be hard for manufacturers like Ford to resist competing especially with growing inventory but it's much

smarter and better to slow production until sales pick up in March when Ford will no doubt work down that inventory.

 

Now is not the time to trade blows with Toyota, let them eat their own profits with give backs..

 

The newest data I could find is from CY 2012, but during that year the Camry sold 356K and 53K were rentals.

Compare that to MY 2006 (apples and pears, but bear with me), during which Camry sold 385K and less than 30K were rentals.

 

Sounds like a little bit of dumping to me...

 

(Source: automotivefleet.com)

Edited November 30, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva

[jpd80]

 

The newest data I could find is from CY 2012, but during that year the Camry sold 356K and 53K were rentals.

Compare that to MY 2006 (apples and pears, but bear with me), during which Camry sold 385K and less than 30K were rentals.

 

Sounds like a little bit of dumping to me...

 

(Source: automotivefleet.com)

A little perspective,

 

10% fleet sales for Camry sounds about right, turn that around and its still 90% retail.

You really can't construe that as dumping when Ford's fleet sales are around 25-28%

 

Re 2006 Camry fleet sales:

In the last year of DN101 Taurus, almost the whole 200,000 went to fleet sales, that's why Atlanta was closed

Edited November 30, 2013 by jpd80