Edstock Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The CUV is current, at least, there's no date. But the other design is dated 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ed, interesting, aside from taillights the hatch looks like a Fiesta, the CUV like the MKC..............nice...and from8 years ago!!!! I was thinking Focus myself but I'm not surprised that the design is 8 years old. Yet, it's pretty cool to see the first renderings of styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) None of those three companies you mentioned own themselves, either. They're all subsidiaries of some huge conglomerate, and as such they get to do pretty much what they want with Daddy's money. Meanwhile, Ford is Daddy and has to pay the bills before he has fun. That's not true. We are talking about companies spending less money and delivering more and better products, regardless of ownership that should be a goal for all Automakers, Right? Edited January 27, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That's not true. We are talking about companies spending less money and delivering more and better products, regardless of ownership that should be a goal for all Automakers, Right? How do you know they're spending less money? And what makes their products better? Better for who? What are the profit margins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That's not true. We are talking about companies spending less money and delivering more and better products, regardless of ownership that should be a goal for all Automakers, Right? The reason that those companies subsidiaries of companies spend less money? They're not nearly as big as Ford. They don't have nearly as much to worry about as Ford since they don't run themselves. They don't have to appease stockholders and investors. They don't build more products than Ford. Not even close. And as a matter of fact, two of those companies still owe a good bit of their hardware to their time under Ford's auspices. "Better" is subjective, but as far as mainstream offerings, there's nothing Subaru makes that I want anymore, not since they started looking more like Toyotas and offering CVTs everywhere. And I still don't trust Jaguar for my dollar. Volvo, I'll give a look (I like the S60). What was your point again, now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Picture this scenario: Chevrolet pays for 100% of the Corvette platform development. Cadillac decides to build a vehicle off that platform. Since Chevy already footed the bill Cadillac gets it for free. Looking at Cadillac's books, it appears their costs are extremely low because GM shifted that cost to other divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The reason that those companies subsidiaries of companies spend less money? They're not nearly as big as Ford. That is an advantage, less overhead and makes them more agile. Less "can't work" and "Won't work" to deal with. They don't have nearly as much to worry about as Ford since they don't run themselves. They don't have to appease stockholders and investors. Those companies have stockholders, have higher margins in some cases than Ford. They don't build more products than Ford. Not even close. And as a matter of fact, two of those companies still owe a good bit of their hardware to their time under Ford's auspices They do build more products off of each platform than ford does. Subaru everything is on the same platform. Same with Jaguar and soon with Volvo. My point is they didn't start with this idea that every platform has to sell million per year, they Developed platform that can be profitable at the volume they are selling at. Even Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 major unibody architectures with 90% of VW volume on one platform and 63% of toyota's Volume on one platform. While Ford will have to maintain 8 platforms. "Better" is subjective, but as far as mainstream offerings, there's nothing Subaru makes that I want anymore, not since they started looking more like Toyotas and offering CVTs everywhere. And I still don't trust Jaguar for my dollar. Volvo, I'll give a look (I like the S60). We see how awesome this new CD6 turns out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Even Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 major unibody architectures with 90% of VW volume on one platform and 63% of toyota's Volume on one platform. While Ford will have to maintain 8 platforms. Volkswagen Is Obsessed With The Phaeton Even As They Lose $32k Per Car http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-is-obsessed-with-the-phaeton-even-as-they-lo-1682262439 http://www.autonews.com/article/20150128/COPY01/301289974/cost-cutting-vw-baffles-experts-with-plans-for-new-phaeton BERLIN (Reuters) -- With Volkswagen having embarked on a big cost-cutting drive, industry experts are baffled why the "people's car" maker plans to spend millions of euros upgrading a money-losing luxury sedan. The 76,000 euro ($86,000) Phaeton, a pet project of Chairman Ferdinand Piech, has never met VW's original sales target of 20,000 cars annually. Analysts say the upper-premium car, which cost more than 1 billion euros to develop and came out in 2002, should be axed. But sources at VW told Reuters that the company is now planning a more advanced version of the Phaeton -- even though the first-generation car was ranked by Bernstein analyst Max Warburton as one of the three "most loss-making European cars of modern times." As Biker16 says, "Those companies have stockholders, have higher margins in some cases than Ford. " . . . then there's the Phaeton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Compare Ford's global sales of C and CD4 and F150 platform vehicles to Subaru, then tell me again how Subaru builds more vehicles off of a single platform than Ford does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That is an advantage, less overhead and makes them more agile. Less "can't work" and "Won't work" to deal with. Those companies have stockholders, have higher margins in some cases than Ford. They do build more products off of each platform than ford does. Subaru everything is on the same platform. Same with Jaguar and soon with Volvo. My point is they didn't start with this idea that every platform has to sell million per year, they Developed platform that can be profitable at the volume they are selling at. Even Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 major unibody architectures with 90% of VW volume on one platform and 63% of toyota's Volume on one platform. While Ford will have to maintain 8 platforms. We see how awesome this new CD6 turns out to be. You do realize that's 8 platforms total, right? And if you think about it, 4 of those belong to trucks - T6, F-150, Super Duty, and Transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's especially helpful when you assume that all companies use the same definition for 'platform'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) They do build more products off of each platform than ford does. Subaru everything is on the same platform. Same with Jaguar and soon with Volvo. My point is they didn't start with this idea that every platform has to sell million per year, they Developed platform that can be profitable at the volume they are selling at. Even Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 major unibody architectures with 90% of VW volume on one platform and 63% of toyota's Volume on one platform. While Ford will have to maintain 8 platforms. We see how awesome this new CD6 turns out to be. Stop digging a hole for yourself... you are just going to get buried deeper. So Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 unibody architectures. Hemm... I wonder how many Ford will have... Hey, looks like there will be 3... Well, that must mean Toyota and VW's plan are deeply flawed - it looks like Ford's. The horror! Edited January 28, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Compare Ford's global sales of C and CD4 and F150 platform vehicles to Subaru, then tell me again how Subaru builds more vehicles off of a single platform than Ford does. I'm guessing he meant "models" and not "total vehicles." Even still, it's not going to be true until 2016. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Stop digging a hole for yourself... you are just going to get buried deeper. So Toyota and VW are moving towards 3 unibody architectures. Hemm... I wonder how many Ford will have... Hey, looks like there will be 3... Well, that must mean Toyota and VW's plan are deeply flawed - it looks like Ford's. The horror! Don't forget the Phaeton! Does a steel version of the aluminum A-8 platform count as a separate platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Don't forget the Phaeton! Does a steel version of the aluminum A-8 platform count as a separate platform? I think A8 left that platform. Now it's just VW Phaeton and Bentley Continental GT/Flying Spur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think A8 left that platform. Now it's just VW Phaeton and Bentley Continental GT/Flying Spur. So the A-8 is another platform? The Bentley's aluminum, the Phaeton is steel. Amazing how the platforms multiply, sure glad they've got those 'higher margins', at $32K loss per Phaeton, they can afford to sell as many as they can build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So the A-8 is another platform? The Bentley's aluminum, the Phaeton is steel. Amazing how the platforms multiply, sure glad they've got those 'higher margins', at $32K loss per Phaeton, they can afford to sell as many as they can build. The current A8 is on MLB platform (same platform as A4, A5, Q5, A6, A7) but with aluminum space-frame instead of steel unibody. Phaeton and Continental are still using the old D1 platform that previous generation A8 used, but in all steel version. Bentley is not aluminum... which explains its crazy curb weight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The current A8 is on MLB platform (same platform as A4, A5, Q5, A6, A7) but with aluminum space-frame instead of steel unibody. And if you can call that 'the same platform', you can call *anything* the same platform..... "We've built our new Belchfire 8 on the same platform as that rover they left on the moon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And if you can call that 'the same platform', you can call *anything* the same platform..... "We've built our new Belchfire 8 on the same platform as that rover they left on the moon." Add completely different firewalls and chassis widths, same platform, alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And if you can call that 'the same platform', you can call *anything* the same platform..... "We've built our new Belchfire 8 on the same platform as that rover they left on the moon." Sounds a bit like C1 to me, what with the Focus, MKC, and Transit Connect being so closely related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sounds a bit like C1 to me, what with the Focus, MKC, and Transit Connect being so closely related. Not C1, C3. C1 was first gen focus (99-07) C2 was second gen focus (08-11) C3 is current Focus, C-Max, Escape, MKC, and Transit Connect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Not C1, C3. C1 was first gen focus (99-07) C2 was second gen focus (08-11) C3 is current Focus, C-Max, Escape, MKC, and Transit Connect Gotcha, thanks. Ever since the company went One Ford, I can't keep up. I still have to remind myself that CD4 != EUCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sounds a bit like C1 to me, what with the Focus, MKC, and Transit Connect being so closely related. Well, except you can actually find common stamped parts among the Focus/Escape/C-Max/MKC and Transit Connect. For instance, the C-Max & Focus have identical wheelbases and rear track widths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Well, except you can actually find common stamped parts among the Focus/Escape/C-Max/MKC and Transit Connect. For instance, the C-Max & Focus have identical wheelbases and rear track widths. Do they? Coming down the line the C-Max looks a few inches shorter, not to mention the doors are a little narrower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yep. 104.3" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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