Is the bigger problem defective parts from suppliers or manufacturing?

[wolfpack219]

I have a question for you guy in the know with Ford. In your opinion based off your knowledge of the manufacturing processes and quality of parts from suppliers, what causes most defects? I own or drive multiple Ford products, and have had very minimal issues with all of them. This includes a 1996 5.0 ford explorer, 2002 ford ranger FX4, 2012 ford edge (still own), 2014 ford explorer police utility (for my job), 2015 ford F350.

 

I had a bad battery in the edge but that's all. A bad C02 sensor on my Ranger at about 60k, very min or deal put 120k on that vehicle. Now my ford explorer police utility is leaking oil from the motor and the ptu unit cracked I guess. Not sure how common this is but it's really taking a long time to fix it. Also wondering as a loyal Ford buyer personally if this is a manufacturing or supplier issue as I have read I'm not alone in this oil leak and ptu issue.

 

Thanks for your responses all.

[akirby]

Nowadays there seems to be 2 main issues:

 

1 - bad supplier parts. The parts don't meet specs or have some type of manufacturing defect. A good example is fuel tanks on the Edge. The design and/or materials were defective causing them to rust and leak. An entirely new tank had to be designed and manufactured and they're just now starting to arrive and some vehicles have been out of service for several months now waiting. MFT is another good example of a supplier providing defective stuff.

 

2 - bad assembly/engineering/quality control. This has been caused by cost cutting, launching products too soon and by moving to Euro based designs in North America for the Fusion/MKZ, Escape, Focus, etc.

 

I'm hoping #2 is a thing of the past now that most of the platform consolidation has already occured and now that Ford is securely profitable. #1 will continue to be a problem but is usually easy to fix.

 

That's my take.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Well seeing as parts come from anywhere and everywhere, there's an infinite amount of reasons for potential problems showing up.

 

As for your oil leak issue, the reason it COULD be taking so long to fix, is Ford may be working on a permanent solution rather than a temporary one. I hope it works out for you soon.

[akirby]

If the PTU cracked, that sounds more like damage than a defect. Don't forget that dealers play a big part in this. A bad dealer can misdiagnose a problem or they can repair it incorrectly. There isn't much Ford can do about that, even though it ends up reflecting badly on their product.

[akirby]

e.g. - my dealer kept our 2014 Escape for 2 weeks to replace the sunroof motor and a steering wheel audio control button switch. They put in the wrong switch and it still doesn't work - they didn't even test it. So now I have to go back again.

[wolfpack219]

The issue with damage to the ptu I thought the same thing. But I couldn't remember at any point where I hit the bottom of the vehicle on anything but they are driven very hard. I've been in several pursuit situations and have had to clear center medians ect.... however I always clear at proper angles so as to not impact the critical components. The mechanic for my department said it could blown the casing from pressure but that didn't really make sense to me.

 

Any how this is interesting stuff guys because I've noticed a big upswing in quality in ford's since my 2002 ranger, which was a ln awesome truck! However when I see complaints of things it's a keak, or a part that is continually causing issues. So does Ford penalize the supplier for defective parts as nobody knows the supplier so the bad perception falls on Ford even though they didn't manufacturer the bad part?

[silvrsvt]

Ford has had issues with PTU's on its first gen AWD products from the past 10-15 years. I've heard a couple of them going on SHO's over the years. The issue is that fluid they are using for Lucubration isn't the best and its not easy to change out either. Units with intercoolers on them seem to fair better.

 

Overall its very hit or miss...for example, my wife has a 2010 Escape XLT and my sister has the same year Escape but a Limited model...my sisters car has been back to the dealer alot over the time she's had it. Up until recently, my Wife's Escape just had an issue with the capless fuel system ($500 to fix) a few years ago but in the past month or so, she's had the following:

 

AC unit resistor crapped out (I fixed it with a $30 buck part)

Tailgate actuator motor failed (I fixed that for $70 for parts)

Now her Throttle body is acting up, but Ford has an extended warranty on it and should be covered as a repair when it goes in tomorrow.

 

She has about 125K miles on it, so I can't complain too much about the small things cropping up on it.

[akirby]

High pressure could cause the oil leak or the ptu to crack I suppose, but those 2 systems aren't connected (ptu and engine oil). They should be able to easily tell if it was internal pressure or an external force that caused it.

 

What I do seem to notice is that Ford is not fixing chronic problems such as broken door handles on older Fusions or the door latch sensor on Edges. They don't extend the warranty nor do they reengineer the part so that once its fixed it won't reoccur. They do this in some cases but not others. It causes a lot of unhappy owners. If they would at least extend the warranty on these parts that are known to be bad (if they don't reengineer the part) that would help a lot.

[silvrsvt]

What I do seem to notice is that Ford is not fixing chronic problems such as broken door handles on older Fusions or the door latch sensor on Edges.

 

Hmm I've never noticed that on either model...

[Sevensecondsuv]

 

What I do seem to notice is that Ford is not fixing chronic problems such as broken door handles on older Fusions or the door latch sensor on Edges. They don't extend the warranty nor do they reengineer the part so that once its fixed it won't reoccur. They do this in some cases but not others. It causes a lot of unhappy owners. If they would at least extend the warranty on these parts that are known to be bad (if they don't reengineer the part) that would help a lot.

And that's where the aftermarket comes in. If there is a wide spread issue on a common model, the aftermarket will usually step up with an improved part. That's most of the reason I buy either the oldest tech new car on the lot (case in point my 2011 Ranger) or buy used. My personal rule is a minimum of 10 years for a new technology or model before I'll consider buying it. That gives the OE and aftermarket time to sort out all the bugs. You've got to be a brave soul to buy into the latest and greatest model/tech!

[akirby]

These aren't parts the aftermarket is interested in. Not enough volume for the investment.

[wolfpack219]

I'm really considering a new F150 with the 10 spd transmission. However I'm terrified of how many potential issues and or the durability of such a change.

[wolfpack219]

This was my first topic post here and you all have been awesome and quick to respond. Always been a Ford fan and hopefully they continue to keep the quality products flowing.

[wolfpack219]

The good news is that Ford is addressing their biggest issue in thousands of reviews, MFT! Finally a new OS. I have read hundreds of consumer reviews and few complain about mechanical issues but most about MFT.

[mackinaw]

I'm really considering a new F150 with the 10 spd transmission. However I'm terrified of how many potential issues and or the durability of such a change.

 

Why are you worried about a transmission that is still in the development phase and won't be in production for another year?

[wolfpack219]

Because that's the next truck I want to spend 50 thousand dollars on. I don't want to wait several years after release for all the kinks to get worked out. I'm excited about it, I really am, that type of improvement with all that weight loss should do wonders.

[blwnsmoke]

The good news is that Ford is addressing their biggest issue in thousands of reviews, MFT! Finally a new OS. I have read hundreds of consumer reviews and few complain about mechanical issues but most about MFT.

 

It is very confusing on what the true issue is/was with MFT. I think there were a ton of issues with bad APIMs (computer that controls MFT) and Ford announced a 5yr/unlimited mile warranty on that part. Ford has come out with many updated software versions which I believe is the true issue with MFT. Ever since v3.6 came and now 3.7, MFT has been pretty flawless for most (if you know how to operate it correctly).

 

I think the 2 biggest issues with MFT are 1) Big learning curve and 2) these reviewers/magazines/testers etc seem to have something really against Ford and trash it no matter what. I personally LOVE MFT in my Explorer and my F350. My F350 has been completely flawless and my Explorer, not so much up till 3.6... in the past year, I've had it do 2 reboots but the functionality is great.. maybe because I've had MFT for 4 years now so I know what I'm doing.

 

On a separate note, there have been more then a few PTU seals that have gone and have caused fluid to leak. I've yet to hear of one cracking and there are a few people on the Explorer forums that drive PIs and have given very positive feedback on them.

[lfeg]

A dirty little secret. To meet automaker cost targets and engineering specs many parts are designed for a shorter life than in the past. It is starting to look like many items are designed to last just beyond the average lease term. And not just the domestics, the Asians and Europeans also. And "lightweighting" is being done "on the cheap" too often, just reducing section thickness instead of re engineering using more appropriate materials for light weight.

[akirby]

 

It is very confusing on what the true issue is/was with MFT. I think there were a ton of issues with bad APIMs (computer that controls MFT) and Ford announced a 5yr/unlimited mile warranty on that part. Ford has come out with many updated software versions which I believe is the true issue with MFT. Ever since v3.6 came and now 3.7, MFT has been pretty flawless for most (if you know how to operate it correctly).

 

I think the 2 biggest issues with MFT are 1) Big learning curve and 2) these reviewers/magazines/testers etc seem to have something really against Ford and trash it no matter what. I personally LOVE MFT in my Explorer and my F350. My F350 has been completely flawless and my Explorer, not so much up till 3.6... in the past year, I've had it do 2 reboots but the functionality is great.. maybe because I've had MFT for 4 years now so I know what I'm doing.

 

You nailed it.

[akirby]

A dirty little secret. To meet automaker cost targets and engineering specs many parts are designed for a shorter life than in the past. It is starting to look like many items are designed to last just beyond the average lease term. And not just the domestics, the Asians and Europeans also. And "lightweighting" is being done "on the cheap" too often, just reducing section thickness instead of re engineering using more appropriate materials for light weight.

 

While I'm sure there is cost cutting I do not believe anyone is actually designing parts to only last 2 or 3 years. Most of these parts that fail prematurely are engineering/design flaws, not cheapness.

[lfeg]

It is not cheapness, it is designing to a spec. On the supplier side continuous cost cuts are a fact of life, so the design spec incorporates this.

[akirby]

But don't the specs also include durability? You're implying that Ford is telling suppliers their parts only need to last 2-3 years and I find that really hard to believe.

[rmc523]

I think the 2 biggest issues with MFT are 1) Big learning curve and 2) these reviewers/magazines/testers etc seem to have something really against Ford and trash it no matter what. I personally LOVE MFT in my Explorer and my F350. My F350 has been completely flawless and my Explorer, not so much up till 3.6... in the past year, I've had it do 2 reboots but the functionality is great.. maybe because I've had MFT for 4 years now so I know what I'm doing.

 

 

I've said for years that (at least from the reviewers side) if they'd take more than 10 seconds to sit and play with the system and figure out where things are, they wouldn't find it as terrible as they make it out to be. But it's the easy thing they can pile on without even trying. Now, that's not to say some models they tested didn't have bugs that caused the system to lag, etc, but still.

[Fredvon4]

I have the first year 5R110 auto tranny in my King Ranch F350 and was delighted with the upgrade over the 4R100 in my previous F250 4x4. Mine has been flawless for the last ten years. Tow haul mode and adaptive learning was a great improvment

 

However, the first year had a lot of truck in the shop for extended wait for back ordered part (some light weight plastic piece in the tailshaft area)

 

But I started to notice (on various forums) most of the trucks were used in the north as snow plows. In the discussions I surmised that very few snow plow operators know that you NEVER directly shift a moving vehicle from drive to reverse as you are still going forward.....Yes Ford could have made it BULLET proof to take that abuse.

 

Based on how I read the warranty guide, owners manual, I personally think Ford should NOT have covered that abuse, but from what I read they did

 

The track record is good on ford truck trannies from my customer perspective. I would not be worried about the new 10 speed one when it appears

[lfeg]

It isn't that things are designed to only last for 2 to 3 years, it is that the definition of 'service' in the spec has been lightened up. So a given part will probably last quite long if the actual service matches the definition of service in the spec, but in the real world things are not often treated as they would be in an ideal world. As an engineer I do not like the way this is going, but the choices are to get out of the automotive area or to stay and play the game.