Volkswagen Will Pay US Customers $5,000 Each to Settle Dieselgate

[blwnsmoke]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/volkswagen-pay-us-customers-5-195729580.html

 

 

 

Under a deal that will be presented to a San Francisco judge Thursday, Volkswagen will pay the owners of affected cars $5,000 each in compensation and “pay to fix their vehicles,” according to Reuters. Almost 600,000 vehicles in the U.S. are effected by VW’s emissions test rigging scheme.

 

 

I wonder who gets the check if they are leasing their vehicle...

[Anthony]

Well if part of that $5000 is to cover depreciation, I would hope they would get something.

[Anthony]

Assuming every vehicle effected got a $5k check (not likely) that's 3 billion (with a b) before they even work on the cars.

 

...and that is just the US... and before fines.

 

Ouchie.

[akirby]

There is no impact to the person leasing - their residual is fixed. it should go to the leasing company since they'll take the hit.

[Pioneer]

The money should be dependent on the fix being applied to the vehicles, whatever that may turn out to be.

[jpvbs]

Do you have to be the original purchaser or can I go out tonight and buy the cheapest one I can find just to collect the $5k check?

[fordmantpw]

Do you have to be the original purchaser or can I go out tonight and buy the cheapest one I can find just to collect the $5k check?

 

Ha! I was wondering the same thing!

[Ron W.]

Let me guess, the repair needed to be compliant can only be done at a V.W. dealership at the low cost of 6k.

 

Back to I've spoken to people with these vehicles, they don't want it their vehicle changed/fixed.

[akirby]

VW has to pay for the repairs also. Like I've said before, unless the state has the ability to withhold registration renewal for non-compliant vehicles they'll never get all of them fixed.

[bzcat]

The money should be dependent on the fix being applied to the vehicles, whatever that may turn out to be.

 

News reports are saying $5,000 plus VW has finally agreed in principle to buyback some if not most of the cars. I've been saying that most of the affected vehicle cannot be repaired because they were not designed to accommodate urea and this seems to be the case. EPA and CARB have been telling the judge the repair solutions proposed by VW won't work but VW had been resisting a buyback. But I think VW has come to its senses (finally).

 

VW has to pay for the repairs also. Like I've said before, unless the state has the ability to withhold registration renewal for non-compliant vehicles they'll never get all of them fixed.

 

States with emission testing can enforce this pretty easily. But that's why the $5,000 is being included. Owners are being incentivized to bring their vehicles in for recall or buyback.

Edited April 21, 2016 by bzcat

[akirby]

 

News reports are saying $5,000 plus VW has finally agreed in principle to buyback some if not most of the cars. I've been saying that most of the affected vehicle cannot be repaired because they were not designed to accommodate urea and this seems to be the case. EPA and CARB have been telling the judge the repair solutions proposed by VW won't work but VW had been resisting a buyback. But I think VW has come to its senses (finally).

 

 

States with emission testing can enforce this pretty easily. But that's why the $5,000 is being included. Owners are being incentivized to bring their vehicles in for recall or buyback.

 

Even states with testing usually only does it in a few counties in conjested areas. But if the state has a law that requires vehicles to be EPA compliant then they can deny registration statewide unless the owner proves the repairs have been done.

[blwnsmoke]

Link to buyback info..

 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/vw-agree-buy-back-u-152040770.html

[RichardJensen]

I wonder if this could end up costing over $8B, by the time it's all said and done (VW had about $21B cash on hand at the end of September 2015, and despite being 4 months into 2016, VW hasn't released their Q4 numbers yet).

 

Speaking of VW's Q4 release, I bet it's going to be one for the ages.

[jpd80]

Owners are said to have two years to decide whether or not they want to sell their cars back to VW, or have them fixed. Those who elect a buyback will receive the resale value of their vehicle before news broke of the cheating last September, plus an additional cash compensation.

 

 

It still seems like a lot of the onus for "VW's cure" is falling on owners.

 

What if owners don't want their cars "fixed" because it hurts fuel economy?

 

What if owners don't want to take up VW's offer?

Edited April 22, 2016 by jpd80

[akirby]

 

It still seems like a lot of the onus for "VW's cure" is falling on owners.

 

What if owners don't want their cars "fixed" because it hurts fuel economy?

 

What if owners don't want to take up VW's offer?

 

That's just it - the only way to FORCE owners to fix their vehicles is to deny registration which may only be possible in some states.

[blwnsmoke]

What they should do is tie the $5,000 refund to people who get their vehicles fixes. Even a 5% reduction in fuel economy will never equal the $5,000 check they would receive.

[fordmantpw]

What they should do is tie the $5,000 refund to people who get their vehicles fixes. Even a 5% reduction in fuel economy will never equal the $5,000 check they would receive.

 

Bingo! My guess is that that is how it will work. Otherwise, what's the point in giving them $5k?

[silvrsvt]

 

That's just it - the only way to FORCE owners to fix their vehicles is to deny registration which may only be possible in some states.

 

Well you have 16 states following California CARB standards which require a emissions test to get your registration...not sure about other states..

[akirby]

 

Well you have 16 states following California CARB standards which require a emissions test to get your registration...not sure about other states..

 

That's not the same thing though. I'm sure the VWs would pass an OBD-II based emissions test. You must have a specific law that says your vehicle must meet EPA standards to be registered. GA has such a law. South Dakota does not.

[RichardJensen]

 

That's not the same thing though. I'm sure the VWs would pass an OBD-II based emissions test. You must have a specific law that says your vehicle must meet EPA standards to be registered. GA has such a law. South Dakota does not.

 

In this instance, the law doesn't require passing an emissions test; once a fix is approved and a recall issued, compliance with the recall will be necessary to register a vehicle.

[akirby]

 

In this instance, the law doesn't require passing an emissions test; once a fix is approved and a recall issued, compliance with the recall will be necessary to register a vehicle.

 

That's what I'm saying - if the state has such a law. It's not tied to emissions testing because the vehicles would still pass an OBD-II emissions test.

[bzcat]

Honestly, I think the discussion about enforcement is kind of moot. There is no fix at least for the non-urea cars. VW hasn't come up with one yet and CARB won't sign off on one unless urea injection is involved, which is either impossible because it involves significant engineering that will impact crash safety, or too expensive to justify on economic basis.

 

The most likely outcome when June deadline for the recall detail is upon us is that VW will announce a buyback on all the non-urea cars for FMV plus $5000 cash, and probably with additional credit (let say another $5000) towards a new VW. That's going to be the cheapest way for them to get it over and done with. The urea cars will be repaired with $5000 going to the owners. As for owners who will refuse the offer of buyback and free money, EPA and CARB will probably agree to VW offsetting the emission from those cars from a more robust or aggressive roll out of EV models.

[RichardJensen]

Honestly, I think the discussion about enforcement is kind of moot. There is no fix at least for the non-urea cars. VW hasn't come up with one yet and CARB won't sign off on one unless urea injection is involved, which is either impossible because it involves significant engineering that will impact crash safety, or too expensive to justify on economic basis.

 

The most likely outcome when June deadline for the recall detail is upon us is that VW will announce a buyback on all the non-urea cars for FMV plus $5000 cash, and probably with additional credit (let say another $5000) towards a new VW. That's going to be the cheapest way for them to get it over and done with. The urea cars will be repaired with $5000 going to the owners. As for owners who will refuse the offer of buyback and free money, EPA and CARB will probably agree to VW offsetting the emission from those cars from a more robust or aggressive roll out of EV models.

 

?

 

The vehicles clearly pass relevant emissions regs while running the software in test mode. Is VW concerned that performance under that impairment is so bad that nobody will want to own a VW diesel?

 

If so, I can't imagine that CARB would have an opinion one way or the other, short of indefeasible compliance.

[bzcat]

 

?

 

The vehicles clearly pass relevant emissions regs while running the software in test mode. Is VW concerned that performance under that impairment is so bad that nobody will want to own a VW diesel?

 

If so, I can't imagine that CARB would have an opinion one way or the other, short of indefeasible compliance.

 

It's not that simple. If it was, the solution would have been implemented a long time ago. EPA and CARB are not just concerned about momentary compliance. It is concerned about long term compliance.

 

The reason VW had to cheat was because running in compliance mode severely reduced performance and durability. The bottom line is that the car can pass emission test while running in that mode for a brief period of time. But it is suspected that if the car was running in compliance mode over a long period of time (like indefinitely...) then the various driveline and emission components will fail rapidly and repeatedly. So that's why EPA and CARB have been reluctant to approve any fix without urea injection retrofit because urea is the only proven technological solution that can meet EPA (let alone CARB) emission. And any fix without urea retrofit is only a temporal solution - all those cars will fail to meet EPA and CARB emission in a matter of month after the initial fix.

 

So that was the impass... EPA and CARB say any solution has to be long lasting. And the only long lasting solution involves ripping out the guts of these cars (some are now approaching 7~8 years old which means they are worth only a few thousand dollars at best) and putting in an urea tank and plumbing, new catalytic converter, new exhaust manifold, gas tank, and new software. And this had to be engineered, crash and field tested, all in a span of several months (remember, these cars were not designed with urea tank in mind so VW had to move something like a spare tire or gas tank to make room for urea tank - which means DOT very likely would have demanded new crash test data). It was all an impossible task from the get go. The sensible option all alone was for VW to just take these cars off the road and crush them rather than attempt a fix. They've finally come to that conclusion after several months of dithering.

 

The cars with urea tank will be a simple fix... VW will replace the catalytic converter with a bigger one, add new software patch, and offer free (lifetime?) refills of urea because those cars will be using a lot more urea.

Edited April 22, 2016 by bzcat

[RichardJensen]

 

But it is suspected that if the car was running in compliance mode over a long period of time (like indefinitely...) then the various driveline and emission components will fail rapidly and repeatedly.

 

Hmm. I hadn't seen that.

 

I wonder what would fail quickly, as my assumption was that they were basically choking the engine w/recirculated exhaust to reduce the free oxygen in the combustion chamber (thus preventing NOx formation both by reducing the available oxygen and by reducing the combustion temp, preventing the breakup of N2 molecules).