fuzzymoomoo Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Think they'll ever get rid of the single bubble light on the MI State Police? It's goofy looking. No, people like it too much, it's kind of a point of pride kind of thing. Fun fact: years ago that little blade on the hood used to be lit for when MSP used to do side stops. They would hit their lights and pull up next to you to get you to pull over instead of getting behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Winnipeg Police use Chargers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 So what's your argument here? Is the Charger outselling the Taurus PI on merits, primarily, or is it primarily outselling it because it's cheap? It have to be merit otherwise you'll see many more Impala PPVs if it's just price alone. The biding remarks I said were for some on here that think Ford don't participate in biding wars with GM and Mopar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 It have to be merit otherwise you'll see many more Impala PPVs if it's just price alone. The biding remarks I said were for some on here that think Ford don't participate in biding wars with GM and Mopar. Oh. I see. It's based on merit, except when Ford underbids Mopar, and then it's based on price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Or, in simpler terms: The reasons are whatever you declare them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Or, in simpler terms: The reasons are whatever you declare them to be. Whatever.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Whatever.. Just trying to help you clean up your logic. You also seem to think that Ford has a limitless ability to scale up production of PI sedans, and that the limited volume of sales largely represents failure of the product in the market vis a vis Chrysler, and not, for instance, production decisions in which Ford would favor more sales of PIUs as they are almost certainly more profitable (not to mention the sale of more Explorers). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Just trying to help you clean up your logic. You also seem to think that Ford has a limitless ability to scale up production of PI sedans, and that the limited volume of sales largely represents failure of the product in the market vis a vis Chrysler, and not, for instance, production decisions in which Ford would favor more sales of PIUs as they are almost certainly more profitable (not to mention the sale of more Explorers). Now you're dancing. You went from saying the Charger wasn't reliable, to it was cheap that's why it's a favorite to now Ford gets so much money off PIU sales they don't care for PI sales. Where's your logic on this?.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 None of those are mutually exclusive. I'll take "all of the above" for $1000 Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Now you're dancing. You went from saying the Charger wasn't reliable, to it was cheap that's why it's a favorite to now Ford gets so much money off PIU sales they don't care for PI sales. Where's your logic on this?.. This is the logic: - The Charger is not as reliable as the CVPI. http://calcoastnews.com/2010/08/police-spend-thousands-repairing-new-cruisers/ UNRELATED POINTS - The Charger is cheaper than the Ford PI, generally if not always: http://www.cleveland.com/independence/index.ssf/2015/05/how_much_does_a_police_car_cos.html - Ford has higher demand for product produced at Chicago Assembly than Chrysler does for product produced at Bramalea 2015 Bramalea production: 253,230 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Assembly ) 2015 Chicago assembly production: ~368k ( https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160212/NEWS05/160219940/ford-and-fiat-chrysler-factories-in-the-chicago-area-turned-in ) It should be plainly obvious that Ford is neither as aggressive about pricing the PI sedan as FCA, nor do they need the volume to match production to sales. Edited July 24, 2016 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 http://www.allpar.com/news/2015/10/charger-pursuit-leads-shrinking-market-30365 Here's an interesting tidbit. Looks like, at least for the first half of 2015, the Charger's sales advantage over the PI sedan was basically a rounding error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This about sums it all up.....thanks allpar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) And a big reality check for all those thinking that LEVs aren't switching to Utes..... Edited July 25, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 And this ib regards to the CHP purchase Most of the sedans will be V6-powered to gain the EPA-rated 26 mpg highway mileage (police Chargers still have five-speed automatics; civilian cars are rated at 31 mpg). All are rear wheel drive, though there are police-edition AWD Chargers. A small number of Charger Pursuits with 370-horsepower Hemi V-8 engines will be used by instructors at the CHP’s Emergency Vehicle Operations Course in Sacramento. All the cars should be in service by the end of the calendar year. Link to Allpar article........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) This is the logic: - The Charger is not as reliable as the CVPI. http://calcoastnews.com/2010/08/police-spend-thousands-repairing-new-cruisers/ Lol, come on 2010?. We know the 1st gen Chargers were mostly for speed and not reliability against CV, they have gotten better since. The new PIs have the burden of proof against the CV for reliability. - The Charger is cheaper than the Ford PI, generally if not always: http://www.cleveland.com/independence/index.ssf/2015/05/how_much_does_a_police_car_cos.html That brings it back to merit, the Impala is cheaper then Charger but it's the Impala that didn't sell well and taking a dirt nap.. - Ford has higher demand for product produced at Chicago Assembly than Chrysler does for product produced at Bramalea 2015 Bramalea production: 253,230 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Assembly ) 2015 Chicago assembly production: ~368k ( https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160212/NEWS05/160219940/ford-and-fiat-chrysler-factories-in-the-chicago-area-turned-in ) You mean Ford sells more vehicles then FCA?, you don't say... It should be plainly obvious that Ford is neither as aggressive about pricing the PI sedan as FCA, nor do they need the volume to match production to sales. But Ford still absolutely participate in biding wars for LEVs. Edited July 25, 2016 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 You mean Ford sells more vehicles then FCA?, you don't say... No - this is specific to Chicago and Taurus/Explorer. In order for Ford to make more PIs they would have to cut Explorer/PIU production. Ford makes more profit on PIUs and Explorers so selling more PIs is simply not a priority for Ford right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 That brings it back to merit ... but Ford still absolutely participate in biding wars for LEVs. So it's still all about merit except when it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Agency buys Chargers: "They're obviously buying based on merit." Agency buys PI Sedans: "Well, Ford participates in bidding wars all the time". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 Agency buys Chargers: "They're obviously buying based on merit." Agency buys PI Sedans: "Well, Ford participates in bidding wars all the time". Oh I get it you think I'm saying (more likely get me to say) agencies don't buy Ford PI lineup because they like the Charger better and Ford have to discount for sales or the Charger sells because price only and agencies pay top dollar for PIU/PIs because their love for Fords, You're funny RJ. Obviously Ford still owns the PPV market but not like the CV days and while Charger is cheaper it just doesn't sell on price alone as some departments like them otherwise nobody would want them like Impala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 you think I'm saying agencies don't buy Ford PI lineup because they like the Charger better Charger... just doesn't sell on price alone Yeah. I wonder what could've given me that idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) I'm confused here. When it comes to Ford selling PI or PIU, some say that the selection criterion is all about "the lowest price wins" but when it comes to Charger, the selection process is not all about "the lowest price wins"? Or are we moving the goal posts to suit our own opinions? The majority of those CHP Chargers are base V6s not pursuit V8s. After a three year exclusive deal with Ford, this is nothing more than FCA sharpening its pencil and going under those already low prices. Edited July 26, 2016 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Interested to see how these Chargers hold up to police usage. IL State police have a few, along with Taurus PI. Edited July 26, 2016 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Interested to see how these Chargers hold up to police usage. IL State police have a few, along with Taurus PI. They have to have made improvements-early ones were a disaster-was there not a major east coast city that had a significant Charger-Cv fleet-I do believe charge maintecance cpm was twice the CV cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 I'm confused here. When it comes to Ford selling PI or PIU, some say that the selection criterion is all about "the lowest price wins" No, it just Ford competes in biding processes with GM and FCA for contracts. Ford may charge more then the others on contracts but best to believe Ford will discount for a fleet sale. but when it comes to Charger, the selection process is not all about "the lowest price wins"? . The Charger made a name for itself over the past 10 years. It use to be the most expensive PPV on the market but as time, parts and mechanic knowledge was avalible the car got cheaper while still being a competitive interceptor sedan. The Impala was the cheapest PPV but departments didn't want it, they paid more for the Charger instead, so price alone isn't a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 No, it just Ford competes in biding processes with GM and FCA for contracts. Ford may charge more then the others on contracts but best to believe Ford will discount for a fleet sale. Bidding! Two D's! Biding is a completely different word. Sorry but that was driving me nuts. So how do you win a bidding process when you're not the lowest cost? By having a better product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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