Chevy Bolt EV to carry EPA-certified range of 238 miles, GM says

[RichardJensen]

 

So you think Ford doesn't know how to cool, heat or package the cells because it's rocket science that only GM knows how to do.

 

Got it.

 

And because Ford isn't selling any cars at all that have battery packs.

[Biker16]

 

You completely missed the point, as usual.

 

I can go twice as far on a 60 kwh battery as I can go on a 30 kwh battery all else being equal. Yes or no.

 

no.

[Biker16]

 

So you think Ford doesn't know how to cool, heat or package the cells because it's rocket science that only GM knows how to do.

 

Got it.

 

I'll believe ford has the ability to cool, heat or package the cells in a large battery pack when I see it. REMEMBER the Focus EV was not developed by Ford.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Biker16

[akirby]

 

no.

 

On what theory? Do you understand what Kilowatt/hour means?

[Biker16]

 

On what theory? Do you understand what Kilowatt/hour means?

 

Becuase it Doesn't.

 

http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric

 

If the 2013 Focus EV had a 60KWh battery it would weigh 1695lbs increasing the cars mass to 4,685lbs

 

 

2013 Focus EV

23KWh battery 650lbs

 

28.26lbs per KWH

 

60kwh 2013 Focus EV battery = 1695lbs

 

This underlies the fact that the Bolt's battery pack only wieghs 16lbs per KWh vs the 2013 Focus EV at 28.26lbs per KWH. thisis where the Technology and optimization is paying off for EVs.

 

The parallel in Gas is saying an engine twice as large delivers twice the power, which is equally silly.

[akirby]

You apparently missed the "all else being equal" statement which includes weight.

 

Obviously additional weight will reduce range somewhat.

 

And GM didn't create lighter batteries - they bought them from LG. All batteries are getting lighter.

 

And with that I'm done playing in the mud with you.

[Biker16]

You apparently missed the "all else being equal" statement which includes weight.

All else being Equal the energy per bls is a constant that scales the increase in capacity.

 

Obviously additional weight will reduce range somewhat.

if it were obvious you would have not post such a question.

 

And GM didn't create lighter batteries - they bought them from LG. All batteries are getting lighter.

 

As other have pointed out GM developed the battery pack, not the cells. there was alot done to outside of LG's batteries to reduce Wieght.

 

And with that I'm done playing in the mud with you.

 

ask better questions,

Edited September 16, 2016 by Biker16

[akirby]

One more thing.

 

Ford put a new battery pack in the 2017 Focus Electric.

 

Old one - 23 kwh

New one - 33.5 kwh

 

An increase of 46%.

 

Old Range - 76 miles

New Range - 110 miles

 

An increase of 45%.

 

The curb weight is the same. So Ford increased range 45% by adding a 46% larger battery.

[RichardJensen]

All else being Equal the energy per bls

 

Moving the goal posts in action, folks.

[Biker16]

One more thing.

 

Ford put a new battery pack in the 2017 Focus Electric.

 

Old one - 23 kwh

New one - 33.5 kwh

 

An increase of 46%.

 

Old Range - 76 miles

New Range - 110 miles

 

An increase of 45%.

 

The curb weight is the same. So Ford increased range 45% by adding a 46% larger battery.

 

Are you sure the Focus electric weighs the same?

 

I didn't know Ford had Finalized the Specs yet.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Biker16

[fordmantpw]

One more thing.

 

Ford put a new battery pack in the 2017 Focus Electric.

 

Old one - 23 kwh

New one - 33.5 kwh

 

An increase of 46%.

 

Old Range - 76 miles

New Range - 110 miles

 

An increase of 45%.

 

The curb weight is the same. So Ford increased range 45% by adding a 46% larger battery.

 

Wait...you mean, ummm, huh? That can't be. You're doing some funky math there. Wait...no....

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Was the battery Larger?

No, the made it fit into the existing space

[akirby]

 

Was the battery Larger?

 

No. And if you continue this trollish behavior you'll get a 2 week vacation.

[Biker16]

No, the made it fit into the existing space

 

Thanks for answering the Question.

 

 

 

No. And if you continue this trollish behavior you'll get a 2 week vacation.

 

Larger battery? you mean larger capacity battery, not larger battery.

 

A 2.0 engine does not generate twice the power of a 1.0 engine. Because power does not scale linearly, because there are dis-economies of Scale as engines become larger. The same is true with batteries because their are Economies And dis-economies of scale when you increase Storage capacity. larger batteries weight more, but may require less cooling, because they discharge more slowly than smaller batteries which saves weight. Shape of the battery pack and the arangment of the celle also affects weight and Size. then theire is the chemistry, Voltage, electrical configuration, and size of the vehicle That make it impossible to say that a 60KWh battery has twice the range of a 30Kwh battery,

 

look at Tesla

Tesla model S AWD range capasicty miles per KWH %increase Range %increase Capacity

60D- 218 60 3.633333

75D 259 75 3.453333 19% 25%

90D 294 90 3.266667 14% 20%

P100 D 315 100 3.15 7% 11%

 

https://www.tesla.com/models/design

 

it isn't a linear increase in range vs Capacity

 

I am not trollingI am answering your question.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Biker16

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Larger battery? you mean larger capacity battery, not larger battery.

You're playing semantics. You know perfectly well what he meant.

[akirby]

The P90D has AWD. The P100D has AWD AND a more powerful rear motor. Those are apples and oranges.

 

P60D to P75D loses 6% obviously due to battery weight. If they weighed the same they would have the same range which is what I said before.

 

Look at the Focus EV numbers going from a 23 KwH battery to a 33.5 KwH battery at the same weight.

 

 

Now do you want to stop this argument here or would you like that 2 week vacation I promised you earlier?

[Biker16]

You're playing semantics. You know perfectly well what he meant.

I can see , but as you can size is critical, and battery size does not equal capacity. And size is a key differentiator between the bolt and THE EVs that came before it.

[Biker16]

The P90D has AWD. The P100D has AWD AND a more powerful rear motor. Those are apples and oranges.

 

P60D to P75D loses 6% obviously due to battery weight. If they weighed the same they would have the same range which is what I said before.

 

Look at the Focus EV numbers going from a 23 KwH battery to a 33.5 KwH battery at the same weight.

 

 

Now do you want to stop this argument here or would you like that 2 week vacation I promised you earlier?

All the model S I referred to were AWD, except the P100D which added the dual motor rear axle with single motor up front.

 

My point is as I have been saying. Double capacity does not equal double the range.

 

 

I can't agree with you statement on the focus EV Until I see the specs for it. I know it's the same size but not if the battery became heavier or not. Which it would be logical to assume.

[akirby]

Maybe we should be calling it the LG Bolt.......

 

Look at all the components that were sourced from LG. And LG has lots of contracts with other mfrs. I don't think Ford has announced who they are working with but there is zero reason to think Ford can't do the same thing.

 

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/oct/1020-bolt.html

 

 

 

GM & LG Blend Expertise
Engineers considered different vehicle architectures, electric driving ranges and performance options for the Bolt EV before deciding the vehicle must be affordable and deliver 200-plus miles of all-electric driving with spirited performance.

LG supplied an array of new components and systems for the Chevrolet Bolt EV, including:

• Electric Drive Motor (built from GM design)
• Power Invertor Module (converts DC power to AC for the drive unit)
• On Board Charger
• Electric Climate Control System Compressor
• Battery Cells and Pack
• High Power Distribution Module (manages the flow of high voltage to various components)
• Battery Heater
• Accessory Power Module (maintains low-voltage power delivery to accessories)
• Power Line Communication Module (manages communication between vehicle and a DC charging station)
• Instrument Cluster
• Infotainment System

“Chevrolet needs to be disruptive in order to maintain our leadership position in electrification,” said Mark Reuss, GM executive vice president of Global Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain. “By taking the best of our in-house engineering prowess established with the Chevrolet Volt and Spark EV, and combining the experience of the LG Group, we’re able to transform the concept of the industry’s first long range, affordable EV into reality.”

LG Electronics Vehicle Components led a team of LG companies, including LG Chem, LG Innotek, LG Display and LG Electronics, to help develop the Bolt EV. LG Electronics has invested more than $250 million in an engineering and manufacturing facility in Incheon, Korea, to support the component development and manufacturing for Bolt EV components.

[Biker16]

Maybe we should be calling it the LG Bolt.......

 

Look at all the components that were sourced from LG. And LG has lots of contracts with other mfrs. I don't think Ford has announced who they are working with but there is zero reason to think Ford can't do the same thing.

 

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/oct/1020-bolt.html

 

 

 

we shall see sometime in 2019 or 2020

[jpd80]

We might see things come in focus a lot quicker if the economy tanks next year and Bolt doesn't sell as well as expected.

 

I have a hunch that Bolt will consign Volt to history as people realize that the Bolt has acceptable range

without needing Volt's added ICE. Most Volt buyers only use electric range and are on low cost leases,

I see plenty of them switching to Bolt especially if it's offered with a lease package like Volt.

 

The other side of this is that Toyota has just released a Hybrid Corolla Hatch in other parts of the world,

I don't expect it will be too long before we see it in North America, dispelling the belief that doing a

compact hybrid is impractical - I see it as the logical inclusion of Prius tech onto a mainstream mode.

That to me is a far more important shift for Toyota....the future doesn't always pan out like we think.

 

On the back of these developments, we have Ford working away on its next gen electrification plans,

I don't see those vehicles being earth shattering. Rather than innovative, they need to be affordable

to deliver new technology to the masses and get as many on board as possible.

Edited September 16, 2016 by jpd80

[atomcat68]

 

 

 

Ford has chosen not to pursue an in house developed EV up to this point. It doesn't mean they haven't been doing R&D or that they're not capable of making one that's competitive or even better than the competition when it does debut.

 

Letting your competitors do the bleeding edge R&D and test the market is not a bad strategy provided you follow up with a great product.

 

I thought the upcoming Model E was Ford's electric car. Or is that a hybrid?

[akirby]

I thought the upcoming Model E was Ford's electric car. Or is that a hybrid?

I expect model E to include a 200+ Mile EV. I just meant they haven't released one yet. I know they've been working on it.

[Ron W.]

While I agree range is important so is the charging time. My father is about a 9 hour drive from me, when I visit him I have to stop for gas. I pull into a gas station pay for gas, fill my tank and am on my way in about 5 minutes. If the vehicle manufacturers want people to buy E.V.s their going to have to give people a "quick" recharge, I don't see that happening for quite a while. So for now I only see the E.V.s being practical for commuters going to work or people with short trips planed. Think infrastructure and convenience.

[mustang_sallad]

While I agree range is important so is the charging time. My father is about a 9 hour drive from me, when I visit him I have to stop for gas. I pull into a gas station pay for gas, fill my tank and am on my way in about 5 minutes. If the vehicle manufacturers want people to buy E.V.s their going to have to give people a "quick" recharge, I don't see that happening for quite a while. So for now I only see the E.V.s being practical for commuters going to work or people with short trips planed. Think infrastructure and convenience.

 

 

200 mile charge in 30 minutes exists today - Tesla deployed a network across North America, Europe, and most of China and Japan on their dime in under 3 years. 200 miles in 30 mins requires charging at 120kW. SAE is already working on bumping the CCS standard up to 150kW. Porsche announced plans to double that to 300kW last year at the Frankfurt auto show by going up to 800V DC (most cars today use ~400V batteries), and they're bringing SAE and everyone else along with them. At that point, you're talking 200 miles or more in a 15 minute charge. These days, I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't want to catch up on the internet after a couple hours on the road, but if that's not you, then get a plug-in hybrid and burn a little gas every once in a while?