Ford to Reduce Focus Options in Next Gen

[jpd80]

The difference in rear leg room / hip / shoulder width between Focus and its rivals:

Focus ...........33.2" / 52.7" / 53.7"

Cruze.............36.1" / 51.9" / 53.7"

Corolla..........41.4" / 43.9" / 54.8"

 

Difference in length/Wheelbase for sedans

Focus ...........178.5"/ 104.3"

Cruze.............183,7"/ 105.3"

Corolla...........183.1"/ 106.3"

 

Difference in cabin / luggage / total volume for sedans

Focus ...........91 cu.ft / 13,2 cu.ft / 104.3 cu.ft

Cruze.............94 cu.ft/ 14.8 cu.ft / 108.8 cu.ft

Corolla...........98 cu.ft/ 13.2 cu.ft / 111.2 cu.ft

 

In North America, the EPA defines a compact sedan as having between 100 and 109 cu.ft. total volume,

it would seem that Cruze is built right on the limit while Corolla is more like a small Mid Sized car....

 

Question,

Would it be in Ford's best interest to grow both the Fiesta and Focus to the point of being "tweeners"?

or is this in fact what Ford has to and will do in order to stay with the competition?

Edited October 1, 2016 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Short C doesn't necessarily mean just a wheelbase change - think Nissan Juke and Nissan Rogue. 4.2M vs. 4.6M at roughly the same width.

The Rogue and Juke are on different platforms, the Juke is B and the Rogue is C.

 

There are numerous examples of this especially in Europe and Asia.

like what?

 

The styling can and should be different to appeal to a different demographic.

this is true but

 

Using the same platform keeps costs down.

an expensive platform does not transform into a cheap platform simply by incremental increases in volume.

 

you have to start with a low cost platform, and if necessary imported it from a high volume production location.

 

Ecosport and Fiesta are just too narrow for NA.

Is the fiesta too narrow?

 

considering it's wider than the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Kia Rio, and Nissan Versa.

 

For the fiesta I think ford's problem is more that the car is old and should have been replaced in 2014. it Really hard to improve a vehicle that is never redesigned.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Biker16

[Biker16]

The difference in rear leg room / hip / shoulder width between Focus and its rivals:

Focus ...........33.2" / 52.7" / 53.7"

Cruze.............36.1" / 51.9" / 53.7"

Corolla..........41.4" / 43.9" / 54.8"

 

Difference in length/Wheelbase for sedans

Focus ...........178.5"/ 104.3"

Cruze.............183,7"/ 105.3"

Corolla...........183.1"/ 106.3"

 

Difference in cabin / luggage / total volume for sedans

Focus ...........91 cu.ft / 13,2 cu.ft / 104.3 cu.ft

Cruze.............94 cu.ft/ 14.8 cu.ft / 108.8 cu.ft

Corolla...........98 cu.ft/ 13.2 cu.ft / 111.2 cu.ft

 

In North America, the EPA defines a compact sedan as having between 100 and 109 cu.ft. total volume,

it would seem that Cruze is built right on the limit while Corolla is more like a small Mid Sized car....

 

Question,

Would it be in Ford's best interest to grow both the Fiesta and Focus to the point of being "tweeners"?

or is this in fact what Ford has to and will do in order to stay with the competition?

nothing can chage until they are redesigned, the biggest issue right now is that they are old.

[akirby]

There is only 1 inch difference in width between juke and rogue despite being on different platforms.

[Biker16]

There is only 1 inch difference in width between juke and rogue despite being on different platforms.

So what, do you know the difference I width between the focus and the fusion?

[akirby]

So what, do you know the difference I width between the focus and the fusion?

The issue was b platform vs c platform and the difference between fiesta and focus is 4 inches.

[jpd80]

The issue was b platform vs c platform and the difference between fiesta and focus is 4 inches.

Correct, the difference in external and internal width between Focus and Fusion is roughly an inch

where as the difference between Fiesta and Focus is more like three inches internal and four inches external.

 

In terms of width, Focus and Fusion are close to each other while Fiesta and C170 Focus are closer in width.

The external widths are both 67.8" while the front shoulder widths are also very close at 50.4"/50.6".....

 

When C1 was developed, the emphasis was clearly on giving Focus more width to make it feel bigger

than other compacts of the time, remembering that the first examples in Europe/ROW we back in 2003.

Since that time, compacts have grown in both width and length while the subcompacts like Fiesta not so much.

 

It's looking like the market is changing from large B, C and D cars to wanting small C, D and E cars.

I hope this is the case because it will finally help to reset sizes back to what buyers can recognize.

Edited October 1, 2016 by jpd80

[akirby]

Point is you can have two vehicles of similar width but different lengths with different styling and demographics. Short c, long c. Fiesta/ eco sport is too small for NA.

[jpd80]

Point is you can have two vehicles of similar width but different lengths with different styling and demographics. Short c, long c. Fiesta/ eco sport is too small for NA.

Exactly so, size what really matter more than any perception of platform age.

[Biker16]

Point is you can have two vehicles of similar width but different lengths with different styling and demographics. Short c, long c. Fiesta/ eco sport is too small for NA.

You can not just keep repeating something false expecting to eventually to be true.

 

 

Could we say the focus is simply a short fusion?

 

Exactly so, size what really matter more than any perception of platform age.

It really difficult to make product larger with out a redesign. Every redesign gives you an opportunity to improve the product. When you let a product languaish you have given up on being competitive by making your product better.

 

 

If the focus and fiesta were on the same interval as the F150 we would have had the larger focus and fiesta by now.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Biker16

[akirby]

 

It really difficult to make product larger with out a redesign. Every redesign gives you an opportunity to improve the product. When you let a product languaish you have given up on being competitive by making your product better.

 

If the focus and fiesta were on the same interval as the F150 we would have had the larger focus and fiesta by now.

 

The redesign is coming with the new platform and new plant in Mexico. How many times do we have to keep saying that before you acknowledge it?

 

Focus and Fiesta make 1/10 the profit of F150 - probably less. Just because you don't like that doesn't make it any less true.

[jpd80]

 

You can not just keep repeating something false expecting to eventually to be true.

 

 

Could we say the focus is simply a short fusion?

In some respects, yes.

Remember, EUCD was considered an extension of C1, the big benefit was sharing

of power trains and basic electrical systems. The evolution to Cd4 and C1+ was simply

rationalization of global suppliers and inclusion of North American vehicle pre-requisites.

 

It really difficult to make product larger with out a redesign. Every redesign gives you an opportunity to improve the product. When you let a product languaish you have given up on being competitive by making your product better.

To a point I agree and perhaps Ford has been caught in two minds here,

1) besotted by savings from platform consolidations

2) playing to the swing away from cars to utilities

 

I think that both of those trends set up the inertia we're seeing today

that meant Ford went long on those platforms for reasons not so obvious...

(- recurring annual savings from consolidation and higher ATPs from SUVs -greater ROI with less builds)

If the focus and fiesta were on the same interval as the F150 we would have had the larger focus and fiesta by now.

I would argue that neither of those products are financially urgent for north America.

They will be here soon enough, 12 -18 months isn't that long, especially now that

the market is flattening out and so many now want Utilities, Ford can trade on that.

Edited October 1, 2016 by jpd80

[jpd80]

And also consider that Ford's much higher profits from everything but B and C cars

actually provides much of the funding for those cars....

 

In North America, the financial impact of Fiesta and Focus are nearly as irrelevant as MKT.

Edited October 1, 2016 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

The redesign is coming with the new platform and new plant in Mexico. How many times do we have to keep saying that before you acknowledge it?

 

Focus and Fiesta make 1/10 the profit of F150 - probably less. Just because you don't like that doesn't make it any less true.

But they're the absolute most important products Ford has and ever will produce #bikerlogic

[Hugh]

But they're the absolute most important products Ford has and ever will produce #bikerlogic

Look I'm in the 'C' market and moving up to a C/D just because it's bigger holds no water for me. I would like to see more attention to this market but it is clear that F-Series and Mustangs take priority.

[630land]

With overseas markets now shifting to CUV's, can't expect Focus to be "the absolute #1 most important product for Ford".

 

But, with VW adding AWD to Golf, Ford should do same with MK4 version. RS has it now, but would be nice for an affordable version. And the only way a wagon would work in US, is with AWD and higher ride height. But don't hold breath.

[Biker16]

And also consider that Ford's much higher profits from everything but B and C cars

actually provides much of the funding for those cars....

 

In North America, the financial impact of Fiesta and Focus are nearly as irrelevant as MKT.

 

If Your are losing money on every one Sold, it really does matter.

 

We have been though this before in the early 00s with the languishing of the Cars in favor trucks and it failed then and it will fail again, because in a complex market it Flexibility is more important than the ability to anticipate.

 

How much money is Ford losing by not producing cars and idling multi-billion dollar factories?

 

But they're the absolute most important products Ford has and ever will produce #bikerlogic

you relized the Fiesta and Focus Represent ~1.2 million units in 2016 or 25% of Ford's Global volume. without This Volume Ford Would potentially fall behind Honda and FCA in Sales Dropping from #6 to #8. reducing the ability of Ford to compete in markets where Sales growth is. (I.E. not North America)

 

Model 1H 2016 1H 2015 Difference % difference

F-series 478,384 424,884 53,500 13%

Focus 367,479 439,584 (72,105) -16%

fiesta 240,447 302,850 (62,403) -21%

escape 184,153 179,504 4,649 3%

Fusion 159,698 168,340 (8,642) -5%

transit 159,247 120,690 38,557 32%

Explorer 152,820 144,652 8,168 6%

edge 144,150 92,184 51,966 56%

Kuga 132,774 134,032 (1,258) -1%

escort 128,107 106,687 21,420 20%

ecosport 115,901 129,554 (13,653) -11%

Ranger 105,860 102,312 3,548 3%

mondeo 76,700 66,880 9,820 15%

 

 

 

 

kuga/escape 238,634 236,344 2,290 1%

modeo/fusion 236,398 235,220 1,178 1%

Edited October 3, 2016 by Biker16

[jasonj80]

 

 

Model 1H 2016 1H 2015 Difference % difference

escape 184,153 179,504 4,649 3%

Kuga 132,774 134,032 (1,258) -1%

 

 

kuga/escape 238,634 236,344 2,290 1%

Escape and Kuga combined would be 316,927(2016) and 313,536(2015)

Edited October 3, 2016 by jasonj80

[akirby]

 

If Your are losing money on every one Sold, it really does matter.

 

We have been though this before in the early 00s with the languishing of the Cars in favor trucks and it failed then and it will fail again, because in a complex market it Flexibility is more important than the ability to anticipate.

 

How much money is Ford losing by not producing cars and idling multi-billion dollar factories?

 

 

The HUGE difference between 2000 and today is Ford has a full line of competitive cars on consolidated global platforms. There is nothing wrong with the current vehicles that a simple refresh and/or new platforms (on a normal platform refresh schedule) can't fix. It's simply a matter of timing.

 

Ford sales have been evenly split between cars, utilities and trucks for several years now. You can't get more balanced than that.

[Biker16]

The HUGE difference between 2000 and today is Ford has a full line of competitive cars on consolidated global platforms. There is nothing wrong with the current vehicles that a simple refresh and/or new platforms (on a normal platform refresh schedule) can't fix. It's simply a matter of timing.

 

Ford sales have been evenly split between cars, utilities and trucks for several years now. You can't get more balanced than that.

 

Are Ford's cars competitive?

 

 

Fiesta 4,230 6,996 -39.5 38,807 53,868 -28.0

Focus 11,160 13,437 -16.9 140,049 163,864 -14.5

C-MAX 1,428 1,966 -27.4 15,149 17,291 -12.4

Fusion 20,570 24,942 -17.5 210,462 231,475 -9.1

Taurus 2,522 3,028 -16.7 26,978 30,513 -11.6

Police Interceptor Sedan 753 914 -17.6 7,166 7,446 -3.8

Mustang 6,429 9,456 -32.0 87,258 96,225 -9.3

 

Ford Cars 47,092 60,739 -22.5 525,869 600,682 -12.5

 

 

 

Chevrolet

• Chevrolet had its best September and year to date since 2007

• Malibu, Cruze, Corvette, Camaro and Volt were up 50 percent, 6 percent, 16 percent, 10 percent

and 117 percent, respectively

• Colorado, Suburban, Tahoe and Trax were up 54 percent, 37 percent, 44 percent and 31 percent,

respectively

• Malibu had its best September since 1980 and year to date since 1981

• Corvette had its best September since 2006

• Tahoe and Suburban had their best September since 2007

• Colorado had its best September since 2004

 

There is an issue that Ford is being left behind in a contracting market.

 

It is never easy to regain market share once it is lost.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Biker16

[akirby]

YTD FMC is up 16K vehicles over last year while GM is down 77K.

 

Also YTD Chevy cars are down 7%, only slightly better than Ford and Chevy has several "new" vehicles.

 

Stop cherrypicking.

[akirby]

It is never easy to regain market share once it is lost.

 

It's also easy to gain temporary market share by reducing prices at the cost of short term profits but that's not sustainable long term.

 

And yes, Ford's cars are competitive.

 

Let's see at the end of the year what sales look like compared to profits.

[Biker16]

 

It's also easy to gain temporary market share by reducing prices at the cost of short term profits but that's not sustainable long term.

 

And yes, Ford's cars are competitive.

 

Let's see at the end of the year what sales look like compared to profits.

 

it not looking good so far, and there is another 18 months left in this product drought.

[akirby]

And when Ford has new products in 2 years and GM's products are older it will be the opposite.

 

A new body is not going to fix Focus' problems - not enough room and a crappy trans.

[silvrsvt]

A new body is not going to fix Focus' problems - not enough room and a crappy trans.

 

Actually the mules are showing the next gen Focus to be slightly wider and longer, which should help with the interior issues.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/09/ford-focus-longer-wider-spy-shots/