Ford November 2016 Sales - Up 5%, Retail up 10%

[jpd80]

 

And once again, everything I said was accurate.

 

And yes, a million times I've commented on Ford's un-growable SUV manufacturing, although they certainly have capacity in Oakville and FlatRock.

 

Ultimately Ford has a way to activate capacity if they were motivated to get to it but would rather sacrifice until they can open cheaper capacity in Mexico.

 

All I ask is that people for once acknowledge these nuances and realities instead of taking offense.

And the only unitary Utilities to show YOY growth at GM was Trax and Encore,

the bulk of GM's economic growth is being fueled by full sized BOF Utility sales,

that's to their credit in a segment where Ford cannot follow for the foreseeable future.

 

It's funny how all the early financial gains made in Q1 were given back in Q2 and particularly Q3,

maybe that's the nature of Ford seasonally mixed fleet sales strategy...

Edited December 2, 2016 by jpd80

[bdegrand]

I..... did not expect this.

 

72k F-series. 20% jump in Ford utilities. 20% jump for the Lincoln brand.

 

Looks like the Silverado attack ads are NOT working. Silverado now trails F Series by 27000 units. Colorado sales are almost 2000 units less compared to last month and the lowest monthly sales since February!!!!

[bdegrand]

Ford SUV sales are up 4% for the year. Explorer is down and and Escape is flat, Edge is up because it's recovering from the rocky 2015 launch, Expedition makes up the rest of the growth. Yes, indeed I did look closely at these numbers....did you?

 

See, this is the thing, you can't take for granted that people have done their homework before carrying on a conversation, so I guess I have to spell it out each time. Ford SUV sales have hit a wall because they aren't growing in core segments and looking at a month's worth of data is only part of the data in the same chart.

 

What makes this worse is that Ford is losing far more car customers than the industry and their SUV sales are in no way stopping this erosion. The only thing preventing enormous sales declines for the year is F-Series and Transit, not their SUVs. Which means Ford is just losing customers to other parts of the industry (and presumably not making them all van and truck customers).

 

A 14% sales decline in cars is a combination of Focus, Fiesta, AND Fusion (actually all Ford cars are down). Fusion is down by 10%, or 30,000 units. Ford has lost 100,000 Car sales this year which means Fusion's decline makes up a 1/3rd of that. These are HUGE declines absorbed entirely by Trucks and Vans.

 

Still, I commend Ford for keeping their sales charts flat despite collapsing demand for everything but the F-Series. But it's extremely unusual to see Ford falling so far behind in key car segments.

Why did Ford TRANSIT sales nose dive in November by almost 30% ? Dodge Promaster almost tied them for the first time ever. Heavy rebates?

[bdegrand]

Good to see Ford bounce back a bit in November. GREAT month for F-Series, which is really gaining some traction now. These trucks really sell themselves well...As an aside, I STILL see that ridiculous Chevy versus Ford truck bed commercial literally about every 30 seconds - it even pops up at the top of this website! Can't believe those losers are still running that commercial - I think maybe that stupid, dork narrator may be turning people off at this point .. If I was in the market for a new truck, just the sight of that guy would make me run to Chevy's competition. Also looks like Camaro's incentives ran out of steam, not to mention the fact that the car is ridiculous looking, and even more ridiculous to drive (in terms of package - the drivetrain is great). Fusion is holding it's own in the face of some really good competition..... Decent sales for Lincoln, too. Lincoln is probably, what, 1/3 of Cadillac sales, but

considering that Ford's investment in Lincoln is probably less than 15-20% of GM's taxpayer-funded investment in Cadillac, I'd say that's a decent return that will only improve as the Lincoln portfolio improves.

Agree...the Silverado attack ad is on every Sunday Football game. It's going into 8 months of the same ad (that has to be some record)....but Ford F Series sales advantage is

actually growing in comparison. Talk about making your disappointment PERSONAL!

Trust me when I say Chevy is tearing down every part of that F Series truck to find something wrong they can use in their next attack ad!

Edited December 2, 2016 by bdegrand

[PREMiERdrum]

Looks like the Silverado attack ads are NOT working. Silverado now trails F Series by 27000 units. Colorado sales are almost 2000 units less compared to last month and the lowest monthly sales since February!!!!

 

I can't believe that they doubled down on the campaign the way that they did during the back half of the college football season.

 

While trying (and failing) to degrade their competitor's truck, they're highlighting it's key feature.

 

GM's engineering efforts vary from decent to awesome, but their marketing has been nothing but inept for most of modern history.

[630land]

GM will say "never mind" as soon as their Al pickups are unveiled.

 

And all the whining about lower cars sales? Toyota and Honda each are planning for more CUV sales and less cars. CRV is Honda's #1 seller now. Accord is becoming a 'grandmothers car', Camry has been one for some time.

[grbeck]

The Accord is probably being hurt as much by the new Civic as it is by Honda's crossovers.

 

Toyota passenger cars, in general, have much more of a "senior citizen" image than Hondas (and Fords, for that matter) do. The Corolla, Camry and Avalon come across as 21st century descendants of the Plymouth Valiant, Oldsmobile 88/Buick Lesabre and Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight/Buick Electra, respectively. Supposedly the 2018 Camry has been designed to be more "exciting." We'll see if that effort has worked.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

I can't believe that they doubled down on the campaign the way that they did during the back half of the college football season.

 

While trying (and failing) to degrade their competitor's truck, they're highlighting it's key feature.

 

GM's recent engineering efforts vary from decent to awesome, but their marketing has been nothing but inept for most of modern history.

FTFY.

 

Pre bankruptcy GM engineering makes me want to go on a rampage when I try to work on them, especially if it was built in the 90s.

[RichardJensen]

Supposedly the 2018 Camry has been designed to be more "exciting." We'll see if that effort has worked.

 

I'm thinking exciting the way the '62 Valiant was 'more exciting'.

[grbeck]

Today I like the 1960-62 Valiants for the sheer audacity - and wackiness - of their styling.

 

At the time, however, I probably would have bought an Oldsmobile F-85 Cutlass.

 

At this point, trying to peddle Camrys to people looking for excitement is probably going to work out as well as trying to peddle Cadillacs to people looking for BMW-like ride and handling.

Edited December 2, 2016 by grbeck

[630land]

Civic is a hit, so there are some cars that are not 'fading'. Should have mentioned that. Honda PR folks said it has been #1 a few months in past year. But, at least Ford is not dropping cars, like Fiat-Jeep.

[jpd80]

Looks like the Silverado attack ads are NOT working. Silverado now trails F Series by 27000 units. Colorado sales are almost 2000 units less compared to last month and the lowest monthly sales since February!!!!

Or are those flat sales of Slverado and Sierra a consequence of selling so many more full sized Utilties?

 

I'm looking at the jump in F Series sales and the gap over Slverado/Sierra sales almost covers Colorado sales as well

but it's with those combined full sized trucks and utilitiy sales that GM really scoots away - 93K to Ford's 78K last month.

 

The big difference for me is the depth of GM's full sized Utility sales -Yukon, Tahoe, Suburban, Escalade combined sales

last month was near 29,000 while Ford's Expedition/Navigator combined sales were much less at just under 6,000 sales.

 

Shoots and ladders, Ford is responding with better F series sales but a nice fresh Expedition and Navigator would also

do wonders on the Utility side, I could see Expedition matching Tahoe or Yukon's near 10K sales and Navigator matching

Escalade's 3,600 sales - that more than anything else would do wonders for Lincoln's ATP deficit to Cadillac...

 

The obvious gaps in Ford's product lines are being addressed, a new Expedition/Navigator are due next year

and a new Ranger/Bronco follows a year after - that's not so long in the grand time scale the full sized Utes are

of greater immediate importance, the Ranger and Bronco will add sales in an area lacking for the past few years.

Edited December 2, 2016 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

The obvious gaps in Ford's product lines are being addressed, a new Expedition/Navigator are due next year

and a new Ranger/Bronco follows a year after - that's not so long in the grand time scale the full sized Utes are

of greater immediate importance, the Ranger and Bronco will add sales in an area lacking for the past few years.

I heard a SOP date last night that I didn't like and I would like to confirm with a few more people before I share, but I will say don't get your hopes up.

[Kev-Mo]

I heard a SOP date last night that I didn't like and I would like to confirm with a few more people before I share, but I will say don't get your hopes up.

 

Ouch! I was figuring on that new Bronco in 3-4 years. Years are flying by now that I am getting older and that is my planned time to buy.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

Ouch! I was figuring on that new Bronco in 3-4 years. Years are flying by now that I am getting older and that is my planned time to buy.

Bronco will be at least a year after Ranger launches, which if what I heard is correct isn't as soon as we all thought. Like I said, I would like to vet it out a little better before I share.

[02MustangGT]

Bronco will be late to the party by that point unless it replaces a current model.

[BORG]

I think people are expecting Ranger much sooner because of MAP's schedule, but Ranger is actually into 2020 MY and Bronco beyond that (which it always has been).

[jpd80]

I think people are expecting Ranger much sooner because of MAP's schedule, but Ranger is actually into 2020 MY and Bronco beyond that (which it always has been).

The UAW agreement guarantees workers new vehicles in 2018 and 2020,

I would take that as late 2018 (Q3/Q4) and early 2020 (Q1/Q2)..

Edited December 3, 2016 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

I think people are expecting Ranger much sooner because of MAP's schedule, but Ranger is actually into 2020 MY and Bronco beyond that (which it always has been).

no

[fuzzymoomoo]

The UAW agreement guarantees workers new vehicles in 2018 and 2020,

I would take that as late 2018 (Q3/Q4) and early 2020 (Q1/Q2)..

also no

[fuzzymoomoo]

^ someone can read between the lines

[Anthony]

Between? 2019?

[jpd80]

also no

Do you think that the plan is to vacate MAP at the end of 2018 and then take a healthy part of 2019

to reconfigure the plant for Ranger before we even consider an ETA for Bronco after that?

 

Is that a closer read of what's being discussed?

 

If so god help us with sales of Focus by then, I think buyers are put off by its perceived age now,

What buyer is going to trade in his '12, '13 or '14 for something that looks only slightly changed...

At the bare minimum, it needs the engine and trans changed to go that long, the engineering is

already done for ROW versions.

Edited December 4, 2016 by jpd80

[fuzzymoomoo]

Do you think that the plan is to vacate MAP at the end of 2018 and then take a healthy part of 2019

to reconfigure the plant for Ranger before we even consider an ETA for Bronco after that?

 

Is that a closer read of what's being discussed?

 

If so god help us with sales of Focus by then, I think buyers are put off by its perceived age now,

What buyer is going to trade in his '12, '13 or '14 for something that looks only slightly changed...

At the bare minimum, it needs the engine and trans changed to go that long, the engineering is

already done for ROW versions.

Focus and C-Max production at MAP is for sure done in May of 2018. It hasn't been officially announced by the company yet but it's leaked out enough for me to be 100% confident in saying that's the absolute latest it will run to at MAP.

 

From what I've heard there will be a retooling period of several months, longer than all of us would have thought it would have been.

 

In the meantime there will be zero changes to the Focus and C-Max as they currently exist, I'm shocked they even changed nothing gave the C-Max the most insignificant refresh ever.

 

Sorry for being vague about it, I don't feel comfortable divulging anything further at this point.

[jpd80]

Sorry for being vague about it, I don't feel comfortable divulging anything further at this point.

OK thanks, I get the picture now and understand your frustration,

Thinking of you and your co-workers at this time.....