Sevensecondsuv Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Those F150 sales probably included places like Home Depot that will rent you a pickup to drive your purchase home with. Edited January 17, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 You just don't understand fleet sales and statistics. Here are the 2017 fleet leaders. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/12/dont-gentle-rental-nissan-boosts-u-s-sales-numbers-flooding-americas-fleets/ Thank you akirby and Michael Reynolds sir for the data and article. The article says the data comes from Polk/IHS Automotive up to October 2017. Nissan's sales release for January - October 2017 is here. http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/U-S-Sales-Reports/releases/nissan-group-reports-october-2017-u-s-sales According to the article about 300,000 Nissan & Infiniti vehicles went to rental car fleets in that period. I'll estimate another 50,000 went to government and other company fleets. Total Nissan Group sales in the U.S. January - October 2017 were 1,319,253. That makes Nissan's estimated fleet percentage of total sales about 26.5%. Only Ford was higher during that time at 29.5%. So Nissan has been fleet dumping for sure. The sales lead lady at Nissan lied when she said fleet sales were "very profitable" for the company. Nissan's financial report said that in the six months ended September 30, 2017, revenue in its automobile segment increased by 5.4% but operating income decreased by 31.7%. Fleet dumping must be a large part of that decrease in profitability. Nissan is in more trouble than I thought. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/FR/2017/fr2017_2Q.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Well, it is for the entire year. ...and if U-haul and other truck rental companies are included (as mentioned above), I can see that. I mean if you think about it, 49k F-150 is about 2/3rd of one month's sales. They sell WAAAAY more "regular" fleet than that on a yearly basis, so there's no way this could be indicative of all fleet. So this chart makes sense. F series sales include superduty so that’s more than a month’s F150 volume I think. But I think you’re right. I saw something else that said there were 76K daily rental truck sales in January which is way more than I expected. So it probably is daily rentals and not overall fleet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thank you akirby and Michael Reynolds sir for the data and article. The article says the data comes from Polk/IHS Automotive up to October 2017. Nissan's sales release for January - October 2017 is here. http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/U-S-Sales-Reports/releases/nissan-group-reports-october-2017-u-s-sales According to the article about 300,000 Nissan & Infiniti vehicles went to rental car fleets in that period. I'll estimate another 50,000 went to government and other company fleets. Total Nissan Group sales in the U.S. January - October 2017 were 1,319,253. That makes Nissan's estimated fleet percentage of total sales about 26.5%. Only Ford was higher during that time at 29.5%. So Nissan has been fleet dumping for sure. The sales lead lady at Nissan lied when she said fleet sales were "very profitable" for the company. Nissan's financial report said that in the six months ended September 30, 2017, revenue in its automobile segment increased by 5.4% but operating income decreased by 31.7%. Fleet dumping must be a large part of that decrease in profitability. Nissan is in more trouble than I thought. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/FR/2017/fr2017_2Q.pdf Ford’s fleet sales percentages are skewed by F series and Transit. Just look at the non-trucks in the chart above. Fusion is at the bottom. Toyota and Nissan don’t have anything like F series and Transit which are huge volumes and high commercial fleet sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Looking at Cars.com it is crazy to see what Fusions are selling for, 2017 Sport, Platinum, or Titanium Energi are all about 18K..(https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/724161652/overview/) That is 20K+ off the sticker in 18 months. Hopefully they are making enough on the Escape/Edge/Explorer leases to off set those losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Might be $20K off sticker but only about $14K off street price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Might be $20K off sticker but only about $14K off street price. My Fusion has 11,000 miles and is a 2017 and it's in that 13-14 range from what I paid. It won't effect me that much because I don't intend to get rid of until it is at least 8 years old.That is pretty poor compared to an Accord or Camry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 My Fusion has 11,000 miles and is a 2017 and it's in that 13-14 range from what I paid. It won't effect me that much because I don't intend to get rid of until it is at least 8 years old.That is pretty poor compared to an Accord or Camry. Im 8 months from the end of my lease on my Focus and its completely upside down. Residual is so bad Im probably going to have to pay out of pocket to trade it early if we decide to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Im 8 months from the end of my lease on my Focus and its completely upside down. Residual is so bad Im probably going to have to pay out of pocket to trade it early if we decide to try. I am not going to pretend to know your situation. Though from an outsider, keep another 8 months. Don't give them another dime more than you have to. September will be here before you know it. EDIT: Are you over mileage? Why would you have to pay at the end of your lease other than mileage or damage? Edited January 18, 2018 by jcartwright99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I am not going to pretend to know your situation. Though from an outsider, keep another 8 months. Don't give them another dime more than you have to. September will be here before you know it. EDIT: Are you over mileage? Why would you have to pay at the end of your lease other than mileage or damage? oh its going to take probably 2 coast to coast trips to come close to hitting the 36k, Im at 23k(ish) right now. This is what our sales rep told us when we looked into it a month ago. We were hoping to get in on the 2017 Fusion fire sale going on, but thats not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 My Fusion has 11,000 miles and is a 2017 and it's in that 13-14 range from what I paid. It won't effect me that much because I don't intend to get rid of until it is at least 8 years old.That is pretty poor compared to an Accord or Camry. I’m getting ready to trade my 2013 Titanium on a new F150. I paid $32K (I think) 5 years ago and due to low mileage (39K) it should be worth about $14K. That’s not terrible considering the avg depreciation after 3 years is just over 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I’m getting ready to trade my 2013 Titanium on a new F150. I paid $32K (I think) 5 years ago and due to low mileage (39K) it should be worth about $14K. That’s not terrible considering the avg depreciation after 3 years is just over 50%. It may level it out but who knows. Good Price! Your mileage definitely helps. I just know that we start out at a much bigger hit than the Camry or Accord, and they hold their value better. Again, I want to keep this 8 years or 150k so it probably won't be worth much by then anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 It used to be deceiving because Fusions typically sold far lower than MSRP while Accord was near MSRP and all the residual calculations were based on MSRP. So obviously if you paid $4K less than MSRP for a Fusion off the lot it’s going to be worth a lot less compared to MSRP but if you look at the actual depreciation in dollars it was pretty close. I don’t think Accords are still selling for MSRP (or Camrys) so that may not still be the case. But it is something to consider when you see residuals. The other way to look at it - if Accords were so much better at holding their value then their lease payments should be much lower - and they haven’t been. That said everyone is taking a hit on residual sedan values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I just checked the trade-in for my 2014 Focus hatch w/ 47k miles & leather: $6,534 Holy crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I just checked the trade-in for my 2014 Focus hatch w/ 47k miles & leather: $6,534 Holy crap. whats sad is if it didnt have that shitbox transmission it wouldnt be much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 whats sad is if it didnt have that shitbox transmission it wouldnt be much better Yup. Looks like this crappy transmission wrapped up inside a pretty decent car stays with me until its demise. It is worth way more to me than $6k. If it makes it a few more years (no reason it should not....thank you 7/100 warranty!)), it will most likely end up as my son's first car where he can summarily blow it up within a month of ownership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 oh its going to take probably 2 coast to coast trips to come close to hitting the 36k, Im at 23k(ish) right now. This is what our sales rep told us when we looked into it a month ago. We were hoping to get in on the 2017 Fusion fire sale going on, but thats not going to happen. Let's trade cars for 4 months. I'll get it to 36k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Let's trade cars for 4 months. I'll get it to 36k. only 4? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) only 4? Lol 5 if you want to take it directly to the dealer afterwards. 33,000 miles on my Focus last year 33k / 12 months = 2750 miles a month 4 months = 11k miles 5 months = 13.3k miles I bought my Focus on November 4th 2016. I currently have 38,620 miles on it. Here's a snapshot of my fuelly log. Doing it since day 1. Edited January 18, 2018 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) See? This stuff is why I don't play the new car game. I bleed Ford blue but I'll stick with the $4000 used stuff thank you very much. Ford has to build something really special/spectacular to get me to consider buying new. Last time they achieved that level of greatness was my 2011 Ranger. Edited January 19, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 See? This stuff is why I don't play the new car game. I bleed Ford blue but I'll stick with the $4000 used stuff thank you very much. Ford has to build something really special/spectacular to get me to consider buying new. Last time they achieved that level of greatness was my 2011 Ranger. And your contributing zero to Ford's bottom line too. I'd rather of the piece of mind of a new car with a warranty then possibly buying someone elses problem that they can't fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I don’t think Accords are still selling for MSRP (or Camrys) so that may not still be the case. But it is something to consider when you see residuals. Yes sir. It's easy to get good deals on 2018 Honda Accord without trying too hard. Discounts are much lower than most other midsize sedans though. No smart consumer would pay MSRP on a new Accord, even though it's an excellent class leading product and the MSRP is very reasonable compared to most of its competition. Accord has the highest resale value in its class. This is due to three main reasons. First Honda doesn't offer cash rebates, nor do they use unrealistically high RVs for leases. Second Honda does almost no fleet sales. Third Accords are very reliable, well designed, and long lasting. This results in high demand and reputation for the model among used car buyers. The model with the second highest resale value in the midsize sedan segment, Subaru Legacy, follows the same approach. Toyota Camry is ranked third. It has superb reliability, longevity, and reputation but has some fleet sales (12-15% of total sales based on the numbers earlier in this thread) and some cash rebates which negatively impact resale value. https://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-resale-mid-size-car/ Resale values for everything else in the midsize sedan segment are low due to lack of good reputation or name recognition, fleet dumping, huge cash rebates, or lower quality ratings than the leaders. Sonata, Optima, Fusion, Malibu, Passat, Altima, and Mazda 6 all suffer from one or more of these issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I'd rather of the piece of mind of a new car with a warranty then possibly buying someone elses problem that they can't fix. If you're going to get a Ford sedan, the best value is always a late model used car with some of the factory warranty still intact. You can buy a used car extended service contract to help with peace of mind. Or DIY any repairs as much as possible. I bought several Ford, Lincoln, or Jaguar sedans over the years, all used or dealer demonstrators. None of the repairs I had to do on these cars cost anywhere near the amount of depreciation that the original owner or dealer took as a hit. Any Ford car (not truck or SUV) that isn't a Mustang has very steep depreciation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) The best deal is something 10 years old with 150,000 on it for $4000. Parts are dirt cheap by then, junkyard is well stocked with extra parts, the aftermarket has a solution for whatever design flaws the model had, and the internet has learned how to fix everything. Seriously, I spend less time wrenching on my old junk than most people spend waiting at the service dept for an oil change. Get to know the grease monkey crowd in your area. I've got connections for $400 rebuilt trans and even internal engines I can typically fix myself for a few bucks. It's not hard at all once you've done a few. I've bought dozens of old used cars and never had a "lemon" or someone else's problems. Just give it a thorough inspection before buying and buy smartly. Edited January 19, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) And you're contributing zero to Ford's bottom line too. I didn't say I never buy new, just that I make Ford work for it. Also, I'm a shareholder. So I do, in fact, contribute to the bottom line. Edited January 19, 2018 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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