Stray Kat Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 ......I truly hope that Ford will comprehensively market themselves to the off road life crowd in a big way. Toyota has a huge presence at the fastest growing and in my opinion the coolest motorsport going right now and that is Supercross. Id like to see Ford become immediately identifiable brand when it comes to off road and sand sports. Certainly the Jeep and off road go hand in hand and GM is big in the sand sports crowd with their LS crate motor programs. Ford already owns the OEM pre-runner category with the full size Raptor. With the new products coming online Ford really has the possibility of an almost unbeatable off road brand line. If it were up to me I would close the loop and pretty much market the Raptor line as a separate brand like Gm does with Corvette. Eventually there will be three maybe four vehicles with the Raptor moniker or at least Raptor capability. I would work with one or two off road sand car manufacturers to pioneer a couple Ecoboost and maybe a conventional pushrod V8 tailored specifically for off road duty. Ford is completely unique right now with their lightweight full-size trucks. Their upcoming Ranger Raptor and Bronco and baby Bronco. Ford doesnt screw up on trucks and I think well be very happy when we get those products. If youre still a fan of suck, squeeze, bang, blow youre pretty much gonna get a truck or a Mustang. All the other stuff looks like its going electric. I think there is a huge potential for a manufacturer to fill this role. Ford is in my humble opinion the lone manufacturer to have a shot at doing this. When a person loads up their dirt bike, quad or S x S I want them to think F O R D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Raptor is a high demand truck, yet Ford makes the buying process a bit difficult by keeping supply low and prices high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Raptor is a high demand truck, yet Ford makes the buying process a bit difficult by keeping supply low and prices high. Makes more sense to do that than sacrifice production of your volume seller(s) for a niche model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Makes more sense to do that than sacrifice production of your volume seller(s) for a niche model. It seems though, since there are no discounts offered, Ford must make more per truck on the Raptor than most of the others. If they built enough to satisfy demand, they could sell many more. It just seems with Ford exploiting every segment of their lineup with ST and Elite and Bronco, Bronco Jr etc, they're trying to get every sale possible. Edited March 24, 2018 by MKX1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Limited supply? There are 40 Raptors in stock within 100 miles of me right now. And anybody can order one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) Raptor is a high demand truck, yet Ford makes the buying process a bit difficult by keeping supply low and prices high.Never going to see big incentives on Raptor, they sell them quicklyTheres about 3,300 nationwide in dealer stock so plenty out there Edited March 24, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Not usually more than about $1250 rebates on the higher end trims anyway - Lariat, KR, Limited, Platinum. The only F150 with big rebates is the XLT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Which, coincidentally is why I bought a XLT and not a Lariat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Never going to see big incentives on Raptor, they sell them quickly Theres about 3,300 nationwide in dealer stock so plenty out there Many of those dealers are asking huge markups, that's why so many are sitting. There are a couple of dealers near me charging ADM and one of them has over 20 in stock. My dealer charges sticker and when they get them, they usually sell in few days. The ADM dealers won't trade off with MSRP dealers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Limited supply? There are 40 Raptors in stock within 100 miles of me right now. And anybody can order one. There are probably that many within 10 miles of me,but most have markups. My salesman told me one dealer is still trying to sell 17's over sticker. My salesman said biggest problem is getting allocation. He assured me if I decided to buy, he'd be able to spec change, since they order as many as their allocation allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Many of those dealers are asking huge markups, that's why so many are sitting. There are a couple of dealers near me charging ADM and one of them has over 20 in stock. My dealer charges sticker and when they get them, they usually sell in few days. The ADM dealers won't trade off with MSRP dealers either.If those dealers selling with mark up have 20 in stock, they may still be selling and replenishing stock levels to make it look like stock levels haven’t changed. I say that because they obviously don’t want to trade off any Raptors for MSRP and that unfortunately is part of accepted dealer practice, it’s not nice but at least you can still get a Raptor for close to MSRP from some dealers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 There are probably that many within 10 miles of me,but most have markups. My salesman told me one dealer is still trying to sell 17's over sticker. My salesman said biggest problem is getting allocation. He assured me if I decided to buy, he'd be able to spec change, since they order as many as their allocation allows. But it’s not a supply problem if there are that many sitting on dealer lots. It’s a dealer pricing issue. I know what you’re trying to say - that if Ford produced more Raptors the dealers wouldn’t be asking for ADMs. But these aren’t in such short supply that buyers have to bid against each other. And looking at it from Ford’s standpoint - why should they build more then the ones they’re building are sitting on dealer lots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 But it’s not a supply problem if there are that many sitting on dealer lots. It’s a dealer pricing issue. I know what you’re trying to say - that if Ford produced more Raptors the dealers wouldn’t be asking for ADMs. But these aren’t in such short supply that buyers have to bid against each other. And looking at it from Ford’s standpoint - why should they build more then the ones they’re building are sitting on dealer lots? In larger markets there may be plenty of Raptor's in stock due to Dealer ADM's but in smaller markets Dealers get far less allocation for Raptor production and have to deal with the supply vs. demand situation and price Raptor's accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 ......I truly hope that Ford will comprehensively market themselves to the off road life crowd in a big way. Toyota has a huge presence at the fastest growing and in my opinion the coolest motorsport going right now and that is Supercross. Id like to see Ford become immediately identifiable brand when it comes to off road and sand sports. Certainly the Jeep and off road go hand in hand and GM is big in the sand sports crowd with their LS crate motor programs. Ford already owns the OEM pre-runner category with the full size Raptor. With the new products coming online Ford really has the possibility of an almost unbeatable off road brand line. If it were up to me I would close the loop and pretty much market the Raptor line as a separate brand like Gm does with Corvette. Eventually there will be three maybe four vehicles with the Raptor moniker or at least Raptor capability. I would work with one or two off road sand car manufacturers to pioneer a couple Ecoboost and maybe a conventional pushrod V8 tailored specifically for off road duty. Ford is completely unique right now with their lightweight full-size trucks. Their upcoming Ranger Raptor and Bronco and baby Bronco. Ford doesnt screw up on trucks and I think well be very happy when we get those products. If youre still a fan of suck, squeeze, bang, blow youre pretty much gonna get a truck or a Mustang. All the other stuff looks like its going electric. I think there is a huge potential for a manufacturer to fill this role. Ford is in my humble opinion the lone manufacturer to have a shot at doing this. When a person loads up their dirt bike, quad or S x S I want them to think F O R D! https://youtu.be/l0mGKCijSh8 I totally agree on this. I ride motocross and use my truck to haul my bike around. I watch Supercross every week and it pains me to see Toyota as the title sponsor. Its also unfortunate that Ford hasnt recognized this market more because the vast majority of dirtbike riders, quads, UTVs, sand rails, etc. own trucks, and there are hundreds of thousands out there. I hope that changes because it seems like a good opportunity to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 q1 In larger markets there may be plenty of Raptor's in stock due to Dealer ADM's but in smaller markets Dealers get far less allocation for Raptor production and have to deal with the supply vs. demand situation and price Raptor's accordingly. In California the average markup is said to be $10-15K and even as high as $30K. That's the result of low production. There are dealers advertising online in other states that sell at or close to sticker and customers are flying out and driving them back. A lot of work for some and those that can afford it pay the markup and keep the greedy dealers going. Same thing happened with the Focus RS and now, a lot of those guys that paid the markups are having engines troubles. and blame Ford for being slow to respond and the dealer markup issue as well. I realize Ford has no control over dealer pricing, but my opinion isn't very popular on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Let’s say each CA dealer is getting 5 raptors and selling them at $10K ADM. What’s to stop them from selling 10 raptors at $10K ADM if they got more allocation? I sympathize with buyers having to go out of state but I’m not sure more allocation would stop that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 q1 In California the average markup is said to be $10-15K and even as high as $30K. That's the result of low production. There are dealers advertising online in other states that sell at or close to sticker and customers are flying out and driving them back. A lot of work for some and those that can afford it pay the markup and keep the greedy dealers going. Same thing happened with the Focus RS and now, a lot of those guys that paid the markups are having engines troubles. and blame Ford for being slow to respond and the dealer markup issue as well. I realize Ford has no control over dealer pricing, but my opinion isn't very popular on that point. You can buy a fully loaded $70k Raptor from my local dealer for $67300 or buy one for a similar price from the dealer I bought mine from. You just need to find dealers that arent trying to rape you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Lets say each CA dealer is getting 5 raptors and selling them at $10K ADM. Whats to stop them from selling 10 raptors at $10K ADM if they got more allocation? I sympathize with buyers having to go out of state but Im not sure more allocation would stop that. Just find a dealer as mentioned above and have it shipped. Even sipping for $1k, you are money ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 q1 In California the average markup is said to be $10-15K and even as high as $30K. That's the result of low production. There are dealers advertising online in other states that sell at or close to sticker and customers are flying out and driving them back. A lot of work for some and those that can afford it pay the markup and keep the greedy dealers going. Same thing happened with the Focus RS and now, a lot of those guys that paid the markups are having engines troubles. and blame Ford for being slow to respond and the dealer markup issue as well. I realize Ford has no control over dealer pricing, but my opinion isn't very popular on that point. Our dealership was told by our Ford representative to not even ask for Focus RS allocation as the Dealers that have them can't give them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Our dealership was told by our Ford representative to not even ask for Focus RS allocation as the Dealers that have them can't give them away. Its a truly amazing car but people have a hard time paying 40k+ for a Focus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The issue is that the RS was always intended as a limited production model in Europe , an apex car with an exclusive price and equipment not found in any other model but is it that much better than an EB Mustang? In the US market probably not but maybe next gen Focus ST can be more than it is today to fill the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Raptors are available - I just bought two at retail price - Both are being sent off for armoring - Can't wait to get them back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Ford's playing games with Raptor's this year. Early on we were told that we were only getting (4) 2018MY Raptor's for the year which is less than we got last year. Then after we got the 4th 2018 Raptor we were told that we'd be getting 4 more which hits the supply vs. demand and ADM add-on issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Ford's playing games with Raptor's this year. Early on we were told that we were only getting (4) 2018MY Raptor's for the year which is less than we got last year. Then after we got the 4th 2018 Raptor we were told that we'd be getting 4 more which hits the supply vs. demand and ADM add-on issue. Sounds like Ford is trying to match production to perceived demand but perhaps ADMs are masking the real buyer demand/ I get that but is there any way that Ford can cap ADM or is that seen as an illegal action or undesirable in the spirit of dealerships? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKX1960 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Sounds like Ford is trying to match production to perceived demand but perhaps ADMs are masking the real buyer demand/ I get that but is there any way that Ford can cap ADM or is that seen as an illegal action or undesirable in the spirit of dealerships? From what I've seen on YouTube, there are quite a few dealers out there selling at MSRP and a few as low as $2K below. They must be putting pressure on the ADM dealers by now. My dealer sells at MSRP, but for some curious reason has one in stock with a $335.00 incentive on it. My salesman said he wouldn't have any problem ordering one if I decided I want one and suggested the sales manager may be willing to do something to sweeten the deal. I know one thing I will have them do is to program the mirrors so they autofold. On a vehicle that wide, I don't want to have to remember to push the buttons every time I park it. I'd also ask to have the ambient lighting to function as in 17, even if I have to pay for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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