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20Navigator

Where Was Our 2021 Navigator?

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On January 4, 2021 my wife and I factory ordered a 2021 Navigator.

 

Using the “fordtracker.tech” Website it indicates our Navigator's Production Date as February 20, 2021. Its my understanding today it only takes a day or two to build a vehicle on the assembly line.

 

Our dealer received our Navigator on May 19, 2021.

 

Is anyone able to confirm where our Navigator was located between its production date of 2/20/21 and 5/19/21?

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No way to tell for sure.  It was either sitting at the factory waiting on a part or it was stuck in transit somewhere.  Most likely the former.

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14 minutes ago, akirby said:

No way to tell for sure.  It was either sitting at the factory waiting on a part or it was stuck in transit somewhere.  Most likely the former.

 

The Lincoln Concierge wasn't able to tell us and we were hoping someone had the tools to confirm for sure.

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38 minutes ago, 20Navigator said:

On January 4, 2021 my wife and I factory ordered a 2021 Navigator.

 

Using the “fordtracker.tech” Website it indicates our Navigator's Production Date as February 20, 2021. Its my understanding today it only takes a day or two to build a vehicle on the assembly line.

 

Our dealer received our Navigator on May 19, 2021.

 

Is anyone able to confirm where our Navigator was located between its production date of 2/20/21 and 5/19/21?

 

Talk to your Dealer. The Vehicle Visibility report will show the entire order, scheduling, production and shipping status information including dates, location, etc. 

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A few questions the dealer was also not able to provide answers to were:

 

1) Why was there 26 miles on the odometer when the factory ordered Navigator was delivered to them?  I found this strange as I have bought 4 other vehicles that were new and none ever had more than 3 miles on their odometer when I drove them off the lot.  Why did our factory ordered Navigator have 26 miles on it?

 

2) Why were there components like exhaust hanger brackets, axle drive shafts and the flange of the main drive shaft rusted?  Even some of the running board brackets had a small amount of rust in areas where the paint was chipped.  Now these are items which are not painted and granted over time (maybe 4-6 months or after a winter in the Northeast) you would expect to see rust, but this was a brand new vehicle.  Why would it have rust like it sat in a field for a few months?

 

 

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I cannot help you with your 2nd question (and I'm not 100% certain I can help with your 1st one) but I'll tell you about my experience: 

 

When the 2013 MKZ-H I ordered in May 2013 arrived at my dealership in late June 2013, it had (I think) 35 miles on its odometer and I was told that was because it had been put through extra quality control scrutiny at the factory.

 

The factory was reportedly having some quality control issues with that new model and every 10th MKZ was pulled aside and given a more thorough "going over" and testing to look for and address any problems before it was released for delivery to the dealership.  At least, that is what I was told.

 

My factory warranty was adjusted to make allowances for those 35 miles.  That is, the new car warranty on it was good until 36,035 miles (or maybe it was 48,035 miles; I forget now).

 

I don't know if that is what happened with your Navigator, I'm just telling you of my experience.  Good luck!

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I guess the idea that our Navigator was taken for a "Quality Test Drive" is a possibility, however wouldn't you think the Quality Group would somehow identify this action to the customer such as a sticker indicating an additional level of review was performed on our vehicle?  Also, if this was the case I just find it odd that our dealer had no idea why it had the mileage on it.

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25 minutes ago, 20Navigator said:

I guess the idea that our Navigator was taken for a "Quality Test Drive" is a possibility, however wouldn't you think the Quality Group would somehow identify this action to the customer such as a sticker indicating an additional level of review was performed on our vehicle?  Also, if this was the case I just find it odd that our dealer had no idea why it had the mileage on it.


Youre getting worked up over nothing.

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Well there is a little more to the story.

 

A few weeks after we took delivery we noticed what seemed like a musty wet towel odor inside. I could provide more details but I ended up finding 5 dead baby mice in the cabin air filter.

 

After their removal the smell would still not go away so off to our dealer the Navigator went. Many calls back and fourth to the Lincoln Concierge over a 5-week period resulted in a sorry, sucks to be you, we can't help you!!

 

The case was then turned over to our insurance which resulted in the entire front interior (dash, both front seats, console, carpeting.....) there was noting remaining except the firewall to be able to see the engine.

 

The result of the entire front interior being removed was that parts of a mouse, probably the mother, were found stuck in the drivers blend door of the ventilation system.  This repair took 6-weeks.

 

So the question which we have never been able to get answer to is, if the vehicle only took a day or two to build on the assembly line where did it sit from when it was assembled (2/20/21 to 5/19/21) almost 3-months, until is was delivered to the dealership? As its my understanding that one of the biggest attractions for a mouse is a vehicle that is not frequently driven.

Edited by 20Navigator

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You think maybe you could have led with that?  All you said was it had 36 miles on it and some surface rust all of which is relatively normal.

 

Obviously it sat at the factory waiting for a part (microchip or something else).  But if it took a few weeks to smell something I’d say it’s questionable whether they got onboard at the factory or at home.

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I'll admit, I could have started off differently but I was curious, if anyone, without too much prompting could determine where it sat, as I didn't want to bias them.

 

It is also true that it will never be determined where the Navigator was when the mouse entered. However, we have lived at our current residence for 10+ years and never had a mouse problem with any of other vehicles so its difficult to understand why a new vehicle would be the one with a mouse issue. One vehicle in particular has been here for the entire 10+ years and sometimes goes a week or more without being driven.

 

I'll probably start another post to help educate other Navigator owners where I'll describe how I believe the mouse got inside. Being a $100,000 vehicle I'm amazed at some of the openings that a mouse could get in through the firewall and into the cabin air filter.

 

Additionally, we were amazed at how we were treated by the Lincoln Concierge. For this situation, they only provided another layer of frustration.

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45 minutes ago, 20Navigator said:

I'll admit, I could have started off differently but I was curious, if anyone, without too much prompting could determine where it sat, as I didn't want to bias them.

 

It is also true that it will never be determined where the Navigator was when the mouse entered. However, we have lived at our current residence for 10+ years and never had a mouse problem with any of other vehicles so its difficult to understand why a new vehicle would be the one with a mouse issue. One vehicle in particular has been here for the entire 10+ years and sometimes goes a week or more without being driven.

 

I'll probably start another post to help educate other Navigator owners where I'll describe how I believe the mouse got inside. Being a $100,000 vehicle I'm amazed at some of the openings that a mouse could get in through the firewall and into the cabin air filter.

 

Additionally, we were amazed at how we were treated by the Lincoln Concierge. For this situation, they only provided another layer of frustration.

 

Hi 20Navigator. It is an unfortunate reality right now that vehicle deliveries are delayed for a myriad of reasons. "Computer chip" and other commodity shortages, rail transport delays. lack of reliable truck transport, etc, etc. etc. So you are not alone in your frustration.

 

And the mileage on your new Navigator is not unusual, especially in this pandemic era. Being shuttled between storage areas, possibly test driven for quality control before and after delayed parts installation, test driven by the Dealership before delivery to you (yes, they are supposed to do that).

 

All of that being said, I do agree that your Dealer and Lincoln Concierge could have handled things better, even if they could not provide an answer.

Sometimes people just don't know how to say "We (I) don't know the answer to that question, and really don't have the resources to find out". Or are tired of being yelled at when they day they can not provide the answer.

And to be honest, even if they could offer a minute by minute schedule as to where a vehicle was while it was waiting for delivery, it would not tell us when or where a mouse may have entered, as akirby stated.

 

I hope you can finally enjoy your new Navigator and have many happy, safe and trouble free miles!

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

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Hi BBF2530,

 

Our dealer did actually drive it 3 miles to do their predelivery inspection so when we actually drove it off the lot it had 29 miles on it.

 

I'm fairly certain the concierge has the access to the data of the build, they just didn't want to share.   At no time did we ever yell at them either, but seeing how we were treated I'm sure some have used that tactic.

 

This was our first purchase of a luxury vehicle now that we are retired.  Prior vehicles had never cost more than the $30K range.  I'd have to say my experience with a foreign brand was the best customer service I've experienced.  That vehicle did have a number of issues, all which were handled under warranty with a loaner of equal or better value.  For the Navigator to be the  "flagship" of the Lincoln brand we are certainly not impressed with the customer service provided by the concierge.

 

As I mentioned I'll start another post in an effort to give other Navigator owners a heads-up about some possible locations on the firewall they may want to seal.

 

We are tying to keep a positive attitude about our Navigator.

 

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Hi 20Navigator.  I am waiting on my 2021 Navigator to be built and delivered.  I am very interested in what you found as far as access points for mice.  If you start a post I will definitely check it out.  I hope you finally get to enjoy your Navigator and have no more issues!

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I’m sure it could have been handled better but honestly 99.999% of the time a rodent infestation is not a factory problem, especially being multiple weeks after delivery.

 

However, because they’re storing vehicles before shipping they should make allowances for things like that.

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26 minutes ago, akirby said:

I’m sure it could have been handled better but honestly 99.999% of the time a rodent infestation is not a factory problem, especially being multiple weeks after delivery.

 

However, because they’re storing vehicles before shipping they should make allowances for things like that.

 

I totally agree, I'm sure the Lincoln/Ford assembly plant has some type of rodent pest control plan in place where either internally or contracted through an outside vendor, bait stations are strategically placed along with sticky traps and are routinely monitored and maintained.  It most likely did not occur at the factory, but at some location where the vehicle sat outside for an extend period of time.

 

I have only seen pictures with no factual substantiation of thousands of vehicles being stored at the Kentucky Motor Speed Way.  Are they from the Kentucky manufacturing facility where our Navigator was assembled, I do not know?  However, seeing how they are stored, sitting for weeks on end, some on gravel lots, some in the grass, considering our Navigator was built in February, a time when rodents are looking for shelter, it certainly makes me wonder....was our Navigator there, sitting for weeks/months?

 

Additionally, when you look at the developmental stage of the dead baby mice that I pulled from the cabin air filter I have to suspect the mother was in the Navigator before our dealer took possession of it.

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I don’t think there is any doubt that’s where it was.  But at this point it doesn’t matter.  It’s impossible to prove where the infestation happened and insurance has already covered it.  Best to move on at this point.

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6 hours ago, 20Navigator said:

Hi BBF2530,

 

Our dealer did actually drive it 3 miles to do their predelivery inspection so when we actually drove it off the lot it had 29 miles on it.

 

I'm fairly certain the concierge has the access to the data of the build, they just didn't want to share.   At no time did we ever yell at them either, but seeing how we were treated I'm sure some have used that tactic.

 

This was our first purchase of a luxury vehicle now that we are retired.  Prior vehicles had never cost more than the $30K range.  I'd have to say my experience with a foreign brand was the best customer service I've experienced.  That vehicle did have a number of issues, all which were handled under warranty with a loaner of equal or better value.  For the Navigator to be the  "flagship" of the Lincoln brand we are certainly not impressed with the customer service provided by the concierge.

 

As I mentioned I'll start another post in an effort to give other Navigator owners a heads-up about some possible locations on the firewall they may want to seal.

 

We are tying to keep a positive attitude about our Navigator.

 

 

Hi 20Navigator. Just want to mention that in no way was I inferring you yelled at Lincoln Concierge or anyone else. My point was that you are not the only person a rep speaks to in a particular day.  And while you may be polite, today's climate seems to have convinced some (many) people that they have the tight to be rude. Therefore, I am sure they (like many customer service reps in many businesses) get tired of being yelled at when they can not provide certain bits of information that a buyer may consider important, but they have no access to because Lincoln/Ford (or whichever company) do not consider it important enough to place into a readily available database to the at their level.

 

And as akirby has mentioned, it does not matter anyway. There would be no sense or value in Lincoln/Ford providing a searchable database to Lincoln Concierge of exactly where/when a vehicle was parked while waiting delivery during these pandemic induced, extended storage and delivery times. Even in your case, it would provide no usable data as to when/where a mouse got into a vehicle.

Yes, of course it could be searched out as to where it was parked and on what dates, but to what end?

 

Just to be able to state that "Maybe the mouse got in at location A". Or "Maybe the mouse got in at location B". Or "Maybe the mouse got in at the railhead while it was sitting there"...etc...? There would be no way to know at which location it happened...or if it happened after delivery (no one ever has mice until it happens the first time). So while it is frustrating to us, data like that does not matter where the mouse got in, only that it got in somewhere. The information provides no value, would prove nothing, cost money to compile and input, and provide no value.

 

I hope you understand that I totally understand your frustration. However, that frustration needs to be tempered with reality.

 

Please enjoy your new Navigator and good luck.

Edited by bbf2530

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@20Navigator  - -   Post or PM the last 8 digits of your VIN.   I believe I can obtain the release date of your unit.   My guess is that it was awaiting parts or QC approval (which would also explain the extra miles).   If a unit is pulled for random extended QC testing, the factory is supposed to attach a small sticker with the amount of miles hand written on it.  I am always surprised at how many of our retail units have been pulled for random extended QC testing since we are a very small dealership.   

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To be fair, the concierge folks can't possibly know all areas of assembly/storage/transport, etc.  Sounds to me like you were pushing for answers to questions they had NO way of knowing, and rather than accept it, you pushed it (I can understand why you would), and in frustration they finally just said they couldn't help you.   I can understand your repulsion of finding the mice, but as noted by others, there's just no way to prove how it happened, or where.

As to the "extra miles".....sorry, but that wouldn't even register with me.  Could be that they had to take the car to another rail yard, or once it was delivered locally, they drove it to the dealership, etc. - but for Pete's sake, that's nothing in the anticipated mileage of the vehicle.  We just have to accept that there's some things there aren't answers for, correct the issue - and move on.  

We're replacing a18 month old, $68k 2019 Aviator Reserve II because it's been a nightmare of ghost problems electrically.  I could have chosen to pound on desks, raised my blood pressure and had hissy fits all over the dealership....or simply say "I knew better than buy a 1st-year model" and move on...which we did.  We don't even know how bad the costs are going to be yet, but frankly I'm not going to worry over it.  The '19 has long been paid for, and I've been setting money aside since we decided to replace it - so whatever the hit is, we'll get over it.  Life's too short to get worked up over this stuff.  Besides - you could be like a neighbor whose week-old, $120k Mercedes just burned up in a mall parking lot last week with no apparent causation - and so far, Mercedes is telling him "not our problem".

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Thanks for everyone's replies, we are moving on.

 

The only issue remaining is to remove the strong chemical odor from the initial numerous attempts over a 5-week period to neutralize the smell of death before the mother mouse was found. This type of chemical remediation was a recommendation from the Concierge based upon their conversation with Lincoln Engineers. In hindsight, it probably wasn't the best course of action, removal of any remaining carcasses should have been first.

 

After the dealership replaced all the ventilation components (bower fan, duct work, dampers, heater core, evaporator core, etc.,.....) and reassembled the interior they sent it offsite to their 3rd party detailer to try and remove the chemical odor but were unsuccessful.

 

We have had our Navigator's back for about a week now and it still smells like a Dupont chemical factory, much better than the smell of death, but still nauseating. Our insurance adjuster has made a recommendation for another company to attempt to remove the chemical odor which it will be going to shortly.

 

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If you have access to an ozone generator, try that overnight.  Just be careful - ozone is NOT good for you in large doses, so it's generally best to set the machine up, close the doors and THEN plug it in.  Once done, unplug it, open all doors from OUTSIDE the vehicle, and allow to "air out" for a few minutes - it disperses quickly.  It's often used to negate smoke smell in homes and cars - it's quite effective against most organic-based odors.  Best part - if it doesn't work, you will NOT have introduced a new "scent" to the vehicle, since there's absolutely zero residual chemical/odor.

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31 minutes ago, TexasRedneck said:

If you have access to an ozone generator, try that overnight.  Just be careful - ozone is NOT good for you in large doses, so it's generally best to set the machine up, close the doors and THEN plug it in.  Once done, unplug it, open all doors from OUTSIDE the vehicle, and allow to "air out" for a few minutes - it disperses quickly.  It's often used to negate smoke smell in homes and cars - it's quite effective against most organic-based odors.  Best part - if it doesn't work, you will NOT have introduced a new "scent" to the vehicle, since there's absolutely zero residual chemical/odor.

This is a great suggestion, thanks!

 

Unfortunately we don't, but maybe the restoration company does.

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Just a quick anecdote - my son and his partner recently moved to 29 palms in the California desert.  He has a pet bald python.  They went to the pet store to get dinner for Drake and on the way back home from the pet store 3 mice chewed through the cardboard container and got loose in the car.  They all died but they only found 2 of the 3.  Took out the seats and never could find it.  Luckily being in the desert in summer it desiccated pretty quickly.   Now they put the cardboard box inside a plastic bin.

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1 hour ago, 20Navigator said:

This is a great suggestion, thanks!

 

Unfortunately we don't, but maybe the restoration company does.

 

A LOT of rental companies offer them now.

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