New Leader Shifts Lincoln's EV Plans - Lincoln is Expected to Discontinue Gasoline Versions of the Corsair and Aviator, While Its First EV, a Three-Row Crossover, is Expected in Late 2025

[Rick73]

43 minutes ago, akirby said:

Buyers of mid to large SUVs and trucks don’t seem to share your obsession with efficiency and fuel economy - based on sales history.

Obsession?  Where the hell did that come from again?  I’m not going there and argue revised topics with people who change subject.

 

We were discussing need for full-size SUVs and pickups needing way more than 400 HP as stated, so if you’re going to get in the mud and change subject of discussion, I’m not arguing back.

 

The vast majority of F-150, Expedition, Silverado, Tahoe/Suburban, Toyota, Nissan, etc. are sold with around 400 HP or less, not 600~700 like DeluxeStang wants.  THAT WAS THE POINT AND ONLY POINT.  If you want to disagree with that, and can stick to that subject, I’ll debate like an adult, otherwise you are on your own.

 

[ice-capades]

Unfortunately, as is all too often the case, much of the discussion in this thread is completely off-topic. The topic is... "New Leader Shifts Lincoln's EV Plans - Lincoln is Expected to Discontinue Gasoline Versions of the Corsair and Aviator, While Its First EV, a Three-Row Crossover, is Expected in Late 2025".  

[DeluxeStang]

6 hours ago, Rick73 said:

I agree that three different hybrid powertrains should cover most of the vehicle size range, but view requirements very differently beyond that.

 

For vehicles like Maverick and smaller, the FWD hybrid could get upgraded to a newer engine.  I can’t believe Ford developed the new Mustang 2.3L unless it planned to use in other vehicles as well.  An Atkinson variant of new 2.3L could replace older 2.5L.  To me targeting around the same 200 HP “combined” power, more or less, while providing improved fuel efficiency is adequate and makes sense.

 

For RWD vehicles in the middle, like Ranger and Explorer in size, a 6-cylinder hybrid powertrain with approximately 300 combined HP could improve fuel economy enough to stand out.  I would go with inline-six Atkinson for smoothness and engine cost savings.  To minimize development costs, I-6 could share modular design with new Mustang 2.3L.

 

For largest vehicles like F-150 and Expedition, a V8 hybrid powertrain targeting around 400 HP makes sense to me.  If funding wasn’t limited, a new V8 engine using same modular design could work best, making it 4.5L.  However, consolidating 4-, 6-, and 8-cylinder engines into one modular design (like some manufacturers have done or tried) seems highly unlikely due to costs, so I think an Atkinson version of existing 5.0L V8 might be possible.

 

Where I disagree with you and a few others is that I believe high-power performance has a much more limited market for the masses.  Buyers want adequate power, but don’t want to spend on excesses they will rarely if ever use.  Sales numbers suggest to me that between 200 and 400 HP should cover the vast majority of vehicles, and that’s well within a range that could be optimized for economy with three refined fuel-saving powertrains.

 

 

 

 

So let's deconstruct this bit by bit. You want Ford to replace the 2.5 with a new 2.3 design, but why? Any fuel efficiency, and power gains are purely hypothetical.

The 2.5 is a golden powertrain, it's old, that's why I bought a maverick with that powertrain, because it's old, because it's an extremely proven and reliable design, definitely one of Ford's most reliable powertrains currently. That's a selling point, not something detrimental. It's very reliable, about as fuel efficient as you can get, and fast as hell for what it is. It's one of the few examples of a powertrain where there really isn't much you could improve about it. So again, why would you want to replace it? 

 

The same goes for your other proposals, you want Ford to make 6 and 8 cyl hybrids, but you don't want them to use their existing 3.5 and 5.0. The 3.5 powerboost is stellar, and a perfect option for a future expedition and transit hybrid. Again, I'm trying to be respectful, but I don't understand where your head is at wanting Ford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to develop new engines that will probably be worse that what they already have. 

 

The 5.0 is one of the best performance engines in the market. There's no reason or need to develop a new V8 when the 5.0 does basically everything well. If it works, why get rid of it? Also, you say modern buyers don't care about having powerful engines, once more, I respectfully disagree. Modern cars sell almost entirely on wants, over needs. No-one needs a 760 hp gt500, very few people need a super duty that can pull 30,000 lbs up a steep hill. No-one needs a raptor or bronco that can go rock crawling. But people like knowing they own vehicles that can do these things. 

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

That statement was addressing DeluxeStang’s point about 600~700 HP SUVs and trucks.  If you happen to believe that that is what most buyers want and are willing to pay premium, you are entitled to an opinion, even one not supported by sales history.

 

I do not understand a lot of things, but then again even highly-compensated auto executives get basic customer desires wrong, like demand for BEVs, so it goes without saying that it is just as possible an expert like you may understand market forces even less than me. We are just expressing opinions here.  You think I’m wrong, and I think DeluxeStang is wrong in emphasizing performance to such an extreme. ? 

 

IMO Maverick Hybrid success (over 50% of sales) can be replicated with large vehicles also, provided similar strategy is followed; just adjusted for greater power and higher-cost vehicles.

You seem to think I'm saying that 5.0 hybrid is something Ford should put in explorers and transits, it's not. I'm saying a 5.0 AWD hybrid would be a solid choice for a future mustang, as well as a few high performance f-150 variants, such as a next gen raptor perhaps. 

 

2 out of the 3 powertrains I discussed aren't even performance oriented, so I don't see where you're getting this idea that I wanting all future hybrids to be performance monsters. 

[ice-capades]

If the completely off-topic posts continue, I'm going to start deleting posts or shut down future posts to this "Lincoln" topic. I'm much more forgiving when threads drift off-topic, but this is getting ridiculous. If anyone wants to discuss engine sizes, hybrids, horsepower, etc. for Ford vehicles (F-150, F-Series Super Duty, Expedition, etc.) start a new topic.  

[ice-capades]

Two new off-topic posts since I expressed my opinion about the continuing stream of off-topic posts. Simply put... enough already! 

[akirby]