GM Considering bringing back Hybrids for NA

[CurtisH]

30 minutes ago, akirby said:

How many bought the hybrid just because it was the cheapest?  We’ll see now that it costs more.

I didn’t realize the hybrid cost more now.  That would work better for me.  The 2.0 Ecoboost is faster than the hybrid and doesn’t use a CVT.   Based on reviews, the hybrid is a bit slower than I would like and I’ve never cared for the sound/feel of a CVT.

 

Disclaimer:  We probably won’t buy another new vehicle for about 6-7 years.  My preferences and options may be noticeable different by then. 

[DeluxeStang]

16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Here’s thought, the use a couple of C2 based top hats on the GE1 compact Electric platform

Maybe swap Mach E top hat for Maverick pickup and watch the change in BEV perception.

 

I think Ford might be fishing with the wrong bait but it has loads of options at its disposal….

F150 for the Lightning but perhaps the CD6 Explorer top hat as BEV SUV & a Sport Track?

You would think Ford would want to use this strategy, but apparently they're trying to cut down on how many top hats they use, which I think is a mistake. I understand designing a new shape, refining it, and investing millions of dollars in new metal press tools isn't cheap. But a variety of designs appeals to a wide range of people. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, CurtisH said:

I didn’t realize the hybrid cost more now.  That would work better for me.  The 2.0 Ecoboost is faster than the hybrid and doesn’t use a CVT.   Based on reviews, the hybrid is a bit slower than I would like and I’ve never cared for the sound/feel of a CVT.

At slower speeds, up to about 40 mph, I'd say they feel about the same in terms of acceleration. The maverick's e-cvt is nothing like those crappy belt driven CVTs. It doesn't have fake shift points, except in sport mode, it doesn't make any drony noises, and it's an extremely reliable design. 

[CurtisH]

24 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

At slower speeds, up to about 40 mph, I'd say they feel about the same in terms of acceleration. The maverick's e-cvt is nothing like those crappy belt driven CVTs. It doesn't have fake shift points, except in sport mode, it doesn't make any drony noises, and it's an extremely reliable design. 

I realize the e-CVT is a different animal than regular CVT’s.  I just prefer gears.  For this reason, I would absolutely consider a hybrid Ranger.

 

Back on topic: I think it would be smart for GM to roll out some hybrid models. 

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

How many bought the hybrid just because it was the cheapest?  We’ll see now that it costs more.

Now that Lithium price is falling, Ford should reduce price, yes?

 

This all tracks back to Hackett thinking battery supply wasn’t a big issue for Ford

its taking them years to get even the basics right….

Edited December 2, 2023 by jpd80

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

You would think Ford would want to use this strategy, but apparently they're trying to cut down on how many top hats they use, which I think is a mistake. I understand designing a new shape, refining it, and investing millions of dollars in new metal press tools isn't cheap. But a variety of designs appeals to a wide range of people. 

Yeah, Ford tends to be lazy ass and usually avoids what it sees as multiple options to buyers, just offer one and take the win form doing less - something picked up from Mulally. What is being missed is that adding variety is not necessarily added complexity, it’s easy additional sales in a well thought out plan.

Edited December 2, 2023 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

In the grand scheme of things larger vehicles like the Ranger/Bronco/F-150 won't see a huge improvement on EPA testing with hybrid engines. Keeping in mind that ECVTs won't work in a vehicle that tows large payloads like an Explorer/Ranger would be expected to do. Smaller vehicles will see MPG increases but they would see that anyways just because of them being smaller/lighter. 

 

That is a major reason why you see powerboost being pushed instead of actual fuel economy on the F-150 for example and there where tons of complaints from reviews with the Explorers HEV mileage not being that great over the Ecoboost I4 and it didn't perform as well either. 

 

And if Ford was planning ramping up HEV production, you'd think that the battery plans that they are slowing down on wouldn't be having that done since the batteries would be able to go into HEV products. I guess they expect the current ICE/P/HEV/EV lineup to be able to meet CAFE requirements till 2030 or so. 

Then add in that adding a HEV to a larger product would maybe make sense if they where getting rid of the Nano V6 or a V8 in the F-150-I could see the Bronco getting  a HEV 2.3L to replace the 2.7L, even though I think some of the Bronco or F-150 buyers would balk at that. 

[Texasota]

 

15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

In the grand scheme of things larger vehicles like the Ranger/Bronco/F-150 won't see a huge improvement on EPA testing with hybrid engines. Keeping in mind that ECVTs won't work in a vehicle that tows large payloads like an Explorer/Ranger would be expected to do. Smaller vehicles will see MPG increases but they would see that anyways just because of them being smaller/lighter. 

 

That is a major reason why you see powerboost being pushed instead of actual fuel economy on the F-150 for example and there where tons of complaints from reviews with the Explorers HEV mileage not being that great over the Ecoboost I4 and it didn't perform as well either. 

 

And if Ford was planning ramping up HEV production, you'd think that the battery plans that they are slowing down on wouldn't be having that done since the batteries would be able to go into HEV products. I guess they expect the current ICE/P/HEV/EV lineup to be able to meet CAFE requirements till 2030 or so. 

Then add in that adding a HEV to a larger product would maybe make sense if they where getting rid of the Nano V6 or a V8 in the F-150-I could see the Bronco getting  a HEV 2.3L to replace the 2.7L, even though I think some of the Bronco or F-150 buyers would balk at that. 

Even with a steep ramp up of HEV/PHEVs Ford  does not need as much battery production capacity with this EV slowdown. You can put 4-6 PHEVs on the road for one EV. You can put around 40 HEVs on the road for one EV.

 

You can bet on the Bronco getting the same 2.3 PHEV power train as the Ranger. Ford will not let the Wrangler 4XE go unchallenged. And, unlike a HEV Bronco/ Ranger, PHEV versions will see excellent MPG increases with daily commutes and city driving.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Texasota said:

You can bet on the Bronco getting the same 2.3 PHEV power train as the Ranger. Ford will not let the Wrangler 4XE go unchallenged. And, unlike a HEV Bronco/ Ranger, PHEV versions will see excellent MPG increases with daily commutes and city driving.

 

But the thing is that rumors from the plant have said No HEV or PHEV drive trains coming to them anytime soon.

 

The Wrangler 4XE is sort of smoke and mirrors-if its not plugged in, it actually gets worst MPGs then the Wrangler with the 4 cyc engine in it! The Hybrid setup is completely different then what Ford would be using since it has two motors in vs the single one in the Powerboost 10 Speed transmission. 

[Texasota]

5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

But the thing is that rumors from the plant have said No HEV or PHEV drive trains coming to them anytime soon.

 

The Wrangler 4XE is sort of smoke and mirrors-if its not plugged in, it actually gets worst MPGs then the Wrangler with the 4 cyc engine in it! The Hybrid setup is completely different then what Ford would be using since it has two motors in vs the single one in the Powerboost 10 Speed transmission. 

A PHEV version of the Ranger is already announced for ROW. I've got my heart set on it eventually coming to North America since other midsize trucks are being hybridized. If Ford does not bring it to the USA , then I am going to crawl into a dark corner somewhere and not come out. I suspect the MAP plant rumors about no hybrid drive trains was well before EV sales dropped off.

 

The PHEV (4XE) is the top selling power train in the Wrangler series (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a44364210/2024-jeep-wrangler-drive/). I think Ford will want to compete with that given the importance of the Bronco family.

 

I guess you could say any PHEV is smoke and mirrors if they are not plugged in. Sure wish you would let go of this argument that PHEVs are not plugged in. It's really old.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Texasota