silvrsvt Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said: May explain why Ford has backed off on offering Diesel engines in everything smaller than the Super Duties? They never sold, plus whatever savings in MPGs they might have offered wasn't an huge improvement over Ecoboost engines with the additional option/fuel/maintenance cost that they entailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 5 hours ago, silvrsvt said: They never sold, plus whatever savings in MPGs they might have offered wasn't an huge improvement over Ecoboost engines with the additional option/fuel/maintenance cost that they entailed And that was the thing Ford maintained with the launch of the 2.7 Ecoboost in F150 - the take rate on that engine option alone was close to 15,000 sales a month while the diesel was always well under 3,000 a month. I suspect the reason Ford didn’t advertise it was that it simply cut into existing sales instead of growing new ones. The diesel option in Transit was something like $6,000 and I don’t think many buyers saw the need for the diesel, not with that kind of premium anyway. It’s just easier to maintain a gasoline fleet with things like lighter vans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 4:19 AM, jpd80 said: Mach E national dealer stock is now just under 16,000. vehicles, it’s gaining about a thousand a month. Incentives are the next step and if that doesn’t work, Ford will have to think hard about Mach E’s future. Ford reduced production in November to 5,735 which is much lower than earlier in year when they produced 13,639 in May, according to Ford Authority. It seems they are trying to control both production and sales to address issue. https://fordauthority.com/2023/12/ford-mustang-mach-e-production-decreased-in-november-2023/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Rick73 said: Ford reduced production in November to 5,735 which is much lower than earlier in year when they produced 13,639 in May, according to Ford Authority. It seems they are trying to control both production and sales to address issue. https://fordauthority.com/2023/12/ford-mustang-mach-e-production-decreased-in-november-2023/ Ford can't utilize the expanded Mustang Mach-E production capacity when they have such high levels of inventory in stock and facing the pending issue with the tax credits. If they're trying to "control" sales, it's a matter of doing what they have to in order to increase sales to reduce inventory to better match the sales rate until they have a better handle on the tax credit issue before moving forward. Ford made a mess of the ordering and pricing process initially and are now forced to utilize a more traditional sales process with incentives and reducing the MSRP advertising price restrictions on dealerships. In my opinion, it made no sense to implement the online ordering process at MSRP prices, require dealerships to advertise the vehicles at MSRP only, yet allow dealerships to negotiate sales at prices below MSRP for regular customer purchases. The online ordering process still involved dealership management of the orders, the same as any other customer retail factory orders, but actually increased the time and effort at the dealership level because of the extra "online ordering" tier created. Edited December 14, 2023 by ice-capades Additional Content 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 Keep in mind the plant also provides products for the EU market also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Keep in mind the plant also provides products for the EU market also Absolutely. Unfortunately, we haven't heard anything about EU sales in quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 32 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Absolutely. Unfortunately, we haven't heard anything about EU sales in quite some time. They sold a bit more than 25,000 Mach-E's in Europe in 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 30 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Absolutely. Unfortunately, we haven't heard anything about EU sales in quite some time. Ford goes silent on sales when things don’t go to plan……. 13 minutes ago, mackinaw said: They sold a bit more than 25,000 Mach-E's in Europe in 2022. There’s a reason why Ford doesn’t mention European Mach E sales this year… It’s a great vehicle but it’s not selling well against the Tesla Y……. Ford has also given up on Mach E in China as the monthly sales are in the hundreds, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rick73 said: Ford reduced production in November to 5,735 which is much lower than earlier in year when they produced 13,639 in May, according to Ford Authority. It seems they are trying to control both production and sales to address issue. https://fordauthority.com/2023/12/ford-mustang-mach-e-production-decreased-in-november-2023/ Total US domestic Mach E inventory is now over 24, 000 with 16,500 already at dealers… https://fortune.com/2023/12/07/electric-vehicle-sales-growth-slows-rapidly-2023-ford-gm-white-house-goals/ Quote Ford has sold just under 36,000 Mach Es through November, only a 3.5% increase over the same period last year. The company’s inventory of Mach Es has been growing much of the year. It had more than 24,000 at or en route to dealers at the end of last month, even though it has been cutting production for the past two months. So you see that behind the curtain, things are going off course, they’re either building a lot of dealer stock or a lot of customer orders have fallen over…. Edited December 14, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Total US domestic Mach E inventory is now over 24, 000 with 16,500 already at dealers… https://fortune.com/2023/12/07/electric-vehicle-sales-growth-slows-rapidly-2023-ford-gm-white-house-goals/ Higher number helps explain the difference I saw reported earlier today between total production and sales from beginning. I was wondering where the rest went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, jpd80 said: There’s a reason why Ford doesn’t mention European Mach E sales this year… It’s a great vehicle but it’s not selling well against the Tesla Y……. Tesla is losing market share AFAIK due to greater competition, and reduced prices on Model Y further by offering a RWD variant. In US Tesla is under similar pressure, with one report stating that “in the third quarter, Tesla’s average selling price across its vehicles fell by roughly $9,000 to just over $45,000.” That can be due to lowering prices, or also due to selling more low-cost models and fewer high-cost S and X. Regardless, more aggressive Tesla pricing can’t possibly help Mach-E sales. Edited December 14, 2023 by Rick73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 6:33 AM, silvrsvt said: They never sold, plus whatever savings in MPGs they might have offered wasn't an huge improvement over Ecoboost engines with the additional option/fuel/maintenance cost that they entailed Ford just announced a $5k incentive ( dealer cash ) for Mach E's sold fleet.....I wonder if that will help move them....although truth be told they take a more substantial hit than that in terms of resale.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Deanh said: Ford just announced a $5k incentive ( dealer cash ) for Mach E's sold fleet.....I wonder if that will help move them....although truth be told they take a more substantial hit than that in terms of resale.... Here we go, I wonder how many people will be convinced to buy one. If so, would they want to lease with a guaranteed return price…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Here we go, I wonder how many people will be convinced to buy one. If so, would they want to lease with a guaranteed return price…. I would defintely recommend leasing...the technology is in its infancy and is progressing quickly...you lease now, three years from now Id say the product will have been improved immensly.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted December 15, 2023 Author Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Here we go, I wonder how many people will be convinced to buy one. If so, would they want to lease with a guaranteed return price…. As Deanh noted, the $5K (Dealer Cash) incentive is for Fleet sales. The LEV (Lease End Value) is disclosed in the Ford Credit lease contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Deanh said: I would defintely recommend leasing...the technology is in its infancy and is progressing quickly...you lease now, three years from now Id say the product will have been improved immensly.... Yeah I’d rather lease an EV at this point if I was set on an EV with so much of it evolving almost daily….wouldn’t be worth it when advancements big and small are coming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 6 hours ago, ice-capades said: As Deanh noted, the $5K (Dealer Cash) incentive is for Fleet sales. The LEV (Lease End Value) is disclosed in the Ford Credit lease contract. Problem is that daily rentals are walking away from BEVs because of costs in general, I don’t see too many private fleets going for this but maybe government fleets for those wanting to be seen as doing something positive… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Deanh said: I would defintely recommend leasing...the technology is in its infancy and is progressing quickly...you lease now, three years from now Id say the product will have been improved immensly.... The good part is say, 2 or 3 year lease with set buy back. As you say, better products then so Ford will be hungry to make a deal and get your BEV back as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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