Edmunds test of new Tundra

[swenson88]

Edmunds.com

[SVTCobra]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..2.*

[bec5150]

The link posted previously didn't work. Try this one.

 

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...89/pageNumber=1

 

I made a statement a few months ago in regards to how Toyota will fail the first few times when entering a market segment but will keep trying and trying and will NOT give up. From what I read in this test and on the Toyota web site, they have a very stout frame, brakes, six speed auto, a 5.7L V-8 that is stronger than any other half ton drivetrain as well as more economical than the other half ton powerhouses AND runs on 87 AND is a ULEV and....well...looks like Toyota came to play.

 

I am no Toyota flag carrier, but to all those that thought Toyota was going to have another "pretender" with this model, umm, I think you might be wrong about that.

[F250]

Since Toyota's Alabama engine plant has not produced a single 5.7L engine yet you are reading the performance stats of a "ringer." Several specialy assembled 5.7L engines were shipped here from Japan to be installed in pre-production Tundras because Toyota's production engine plant in Alabama was not scheduled to begin building it's first engines until August 2007. Toyota has since realized it needs the 5.7L to launch the new Tundra and has pushed the engine plant's schedule ahead as far as it can but at best the real production Tundras will not be available until late Febuary. So the engine in this test Tundra must be one of the special, built in Japan, hand assembled units built just to impress the press. "Ringer" engines in specially tuned pre-production cars built just for press testing were very common among American manufacturers during the muscle car wars of the 1960's. Same game, different players.

 

Ask Nissan if having a powerful engine and 5-speed transmission in a Jap-ugly big truck is enough to compete in the most brand loyal market in the industry. Ask anyone if pushing an all-new engine 6 months ahead of schedule is a good idea.

 

Titan=square ugly

Tundra=round ugly

[ford-boy]

Edmunds made comparisons with EVERY other big pick-up player, mentioning horsepower/torque, fuel mileage etc., but did not mention Ford even ONCE. Very strange to have TOTALLY ignored the best selling pick-up of all time. Maybe they think the F 150 is not worth a comparison. Could they be..... Nah!! Their not biased.

[Bluecon]

Edmunds made comparisons with EVERY other big pick-up player, mentioning horsepower/torque, fuel mileage etc., but did not mention Ford even ONCE. Very strange to have TOTALLY ignored the best selling pick-up of all time. Maybe they think the F 150 is not worth a comparison. Could they be..... Nah!! Their not biased.

Maybe they were to embarassed to mention the Fords 300hp?

 

Shouldn't we have a picture of a burning Honda in this thread?

Edited January 8, 2007 by Bluecon

[bec5150]

Since Toyota's Alabama engine plant has not produced a single 5.7L engine yet you are reading the performance stats of a "ringer." Several specialy assembled 5.7L engines were shipped here from Japan to be installed in pre-production Tundras because Toyota's production engine plant in Alabama was not scheduled to begin building it's first engines until August 2007. Toyota has since realized it needs the 5.7L to launch the new Tundra and has pushed the engine plant's schedule ahead as far as it can but at best the real production Tundras will not be available until late Febuary. So the engine in this test Tundra must be one of the special, built in Japan, hand assembled units built just to impress the press. "Ringer" engines in specially tuned pre-production cars built just for press testing were very common among American manufacturers during the muscle car wars of the 1960's. Same game, different players.

 

Ask Nissan if having a powerful engine and 5-speed transmission in a Jap-ugly big truck is enough to compete in the most brand loyal market in the industry. Ask anyone if pushing an all-new engine 6 months ahead of schedule is a good idea.

 

Titan=square ugly

Tundra=round ugly

I don't doubt that this truck might be a ringer, but doesn't every manufacturer ship their best stuff to the media or at least SHOULD? Besides, I don't think anyone brought up where the engine was made or anything like this. This is a pretty fair truck, at least the stats seem to say that it is. Of course, with the latest Tacoma long term C&D test and how bad it came out, time will tell. But this ain't no toy...

 

And yes, I woudl agree that the only reason they didn't mention Ford is to save embarrassment for Ford. They did em a favor.

[kenp77]

Probably didn't mention ford because they have the weakest drivetrain out there right now

[Blueblood]

One of the things that stuck out most to me was that this thing outbraked the Escape by a full 30 feet yet it weighs over 2000 pounds more! The car based Edge as well.

 

And yes, Ford needs to get the Boss motors backed by a beefy and quick shifting six speed out ASAP.

 

I just can't see many people buying this thing due to it being so horrendously ugly, the ugliest vehicle I've ever laid eyes on..

[CPBroncoBoy]

And yes, Ford needs to get the Boss motors backed by a beefy and quick shifting six speed out ASAP.

 

Can someone enlighten me on the Boss motor? The only boss motors I know are the new crate motor and the boss motors from the 69-70 mustang.

[Blueblood]

Can someone enlighten me on the Boss motor? The only boss motors I know are the new crate motor and the boss motors from the 69-70 mustang.

 

It's the name Ford chose for the upcoming 5.8-6.2 liter engines coming in 09 (if we're lucky) known in development as "Hurricane".

 

It's all new, to replace the boat anchors aka "modular" engines.

 

I just hope it's all aluminum, smaller in outside dimension, and class leading in every aspect which it better considering it's so late to the party...

[F250]

I don't doubt that this truck might be a ringer, but doesn't every manufacturer ship their best stuff to the media or at least SHOULD? Besides, I don't think anyone brought up where the engine was made or anything like this. This is a pretty fair truck, at least the stats seem to say that it is. Of course, with the latest Tacoma long term C&D test and how bad it came out, time will tell. But this ain't no toy...

 

And yes, I woudl agree that the only reason they didn't mention Ford is to save embarrassment for Ford. They did em a favor.

 

Manufacturers today usually provide regular production vehicles as soon as they are available for the press.

 

This article tested what was provided by Toyota of course but a responsable journalist would have disclosed that the truck tested was not a production model but a specially built unit.

Edited January 8, 2007 by F250

[F250]

Can someone enlighten me on the Boss motor? The only boss motors I know are the new crate motor and the boss motors from the 69-70 mustang.

Yes the larger displacment Huricane engine program was cancelled by Bill Ford because apparently he was concerned it would fuel the "Ford builds only gas guzzlers" complaint from the green crowd. Fortunately the program was resumed when the new leadership took over and realized the need to be competitive.

 

And I'll say it again: Trucks need a broad flat torque curve not peak horsepower or peak torque numbers.

The modular's curve and 365 ft lbs aint bad considering it's basic design is the oldest truck V8 on the market.

 

I'd rather Ford take the time necessary to get their Boss engines and 6-speed transmissions right than cut way ahead of schedule and invite problems like Toyota is doing.

[ebritt]

Maybe they were to embarassed to mention the Fords 300hp?

 

Shouldn't we have a picture of a burning Honda in this thread?

[SVTCobra]

Maybe Ford F150 was not mentioned because it is the Best Selling pickup and *only* has 300 hp... so, while they are talking up the HP numbers they don't want to show that it doesn't mean as much to consumers.

 

Also noticed they used the staggered rear shocks mounted outside the frame rails, ala F150. Hell, they probably stripped down a current-gen F150 and used that as a template then added what the Ford is "lacking" - big HP #s.

 

I did find it odd that the article mentions the 10,500# towing capacity but felt the Tundra was not easily able to tow a ~ 8500# load.

[ebritt]

Maybe Ford F150 was not mentioned because it is the Best Selling pickup and *only* has 300 hp... so, while they are talking up the HP numbers they don't want to show that it doesn't mean as much to consumers.

 

Also noticed they used the staggered rear shocks mounted outside the frame rails, ala F150. Hell, they probably stripped down a current-gen F150 and used that as a template then added what the Ford is "lacking" - big HP #s.

 

I did find it odd that the article mentions the 10,500# towing capacity but felt the Tundra was not easily able to tow a ~ 8500# load.

Just for those who dont know.....HP is not was does the pulling it's Torque.

Does toyota have the torque, probably not.

If it did could the transmission, suspension, frame etc. stand up to it? Doubt it.

They have been at this for more than 10 years and they think HP will sell this truck?

This toy will fare no better than the others, especially after the first lot hits the road and falls on it's face.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

According to the reelased specs at NAIAS, Toyota does have the torque, 400+ lbs of it to be precise. And with DOHC with intake and exhaust variable cam timing, that torque curve is gonna be plenty flat. Toyota may be taking a risk in the market with an aluminum engine, but, they know that there are very few that look past the spec sheet numbers and consider the materials. That is the most torque available in a half ton in the US market currently. (excludes the SRT-10, which is being dropped anyway).

[NickF1011]

but, they know that there are very few that look past the spec sheet numbers and consider the materials.

 

That may be true when it comes to bread and butter sedans or compact pickups where the very last detail in the powertrain/suspension may not matter to the buyer, but there are a LOT of fullsize pickup buyers I've come across who can note every last detail about their truck purchase, down to spring rates and throttle body sizes.

 

Now, with that noted, I really don't see the issue with an aluminum block being used. It's about time the Big 3 got in the 21st century and started utilizing aluminum blocks themselves.

[silvrsvt]

Now, with that noted, I really don't see the issue with an aluminum block being used. It's about time the Big 3 got in the 21st century and started utilizing aluminum blocks themselves.

 

I thought the Boss blocks where going to be CGDI blocks, leapfrogging Aluminum

[NickF1011]

I thought the Boss blocks where going to be CGDI blocks, leapfrogging Aluminum

 

Perhaps they will be. If that's the case, good for Ford. Would help with addressing some of the "heavy pig" comments as well. What are the weight-saving benefits of CGDI vs Aluminum? I know they're both better than iron in terms of weight.

 

There's no reason the next F-150 shouldn't utilize a composite bed also to help it lose some weight -- not just the cargo floor, but the entire thing. Heck, make the entire body composite. Plasti-panels a'la Saturn! Hopefully there have been a couple advancements since my old Saturn SL2 though as far as flexibility and ability to hold paint.

Edited January 8, 2007 by NickF1011

[controller]

One of the things that stuck out most to me was that this thing outbraked the Escape by a full 30 feet yet it weighs over 2000 pounds more! The car based Edge as well.

 

And yes, Ford needs to get the Boss motors backed by a beefy and quick shifting six speed out ASAP.

 

I just can't see many people buying this thing due to it being so horrendously ugly, the ugliest vehicle I've ever laid eyes on..

 

I don't know about the ugly-factor, but I think it will be too big. I always thought the Mega-Cab was always too big, new Tundra is bigger. Will Toyota get all the negative press Ford got with the Excursion? Can't remember where I read it, but there was an article out there quoting a Toyota rep saying the company is worried the new Sequoia, based on Tundra, will be too big. I don't think the truck buying public will go for it. It it did, wouldn't Mega-Cab-Hemis have much higher sales #s.

Question for everybody: If Ford's 4.6 went from 231hp w/2 valves to 300hp w/3 valves, a 69hp jump; why isn't Ford doing the same w/5.4 until new engines get here? Will they eventually give both engines 4 valves? I'd like to see manual transmission w/V-8s make a comeback in the F-150 also.

[silvrsvt]

I'd like to see manual transmission w/V-8s make a comeback in the F-150 also.

 

Some one who worked at the Pliot plant said the 09 F-150 will get a 3v 4.6 Manual as the base option and the 4.4 CGDI Diesel and the 5.8 or 6.2 Boss engine with 6 speed trannies backing them up.

[MGallun]

Some one who worked at the Pliot plant said the 09 F-150 will get a 3v 4.6 Manual as the base option and the 4.4 CGDI Diesel and the 5.8 or 6.2 Boss engine with 6 speed trannies backing them up.

 

 

curious where they got the hp and tq numbers... just a educated guess? hell, if they pulled that 380hp and 400tq at the wheels everyone would be shitting bricks lol... wonder what numbers they actually pulled at the wheels...

[RichardJensen]

the program was resumed when the new leadership took over and realized the need to be competitive.

Just FYI, the Hurricane project was resumed BEFORE Mulally took over, and cancellation/resumption has more to do with who was in charge with NA ops and NA pd than Bill Ford. Smith & Martens were in charge when it was suspended, Fields & Kuzak when it was resumed.

[kenp77]

curious where they got the hp and tq numbers... just a educated guess? hell, if they pulled that 380hp and 400tq at the wheels everyone would be shitting bricks lol... wonder what numbers they actually pulled at the wheels...

Read the article in the edmonds link they put it on a rear wheel dyno those are real numbers as close as possible I would suspect???