mustang84isu

I think we are seeing the end of the hands off approach to autonomous driving regulation that has been ongoing for the last several years. Tesla has been promoting "Full Self Driving" now since 2016 and is not anywhere close to the SAE Level 5 type of autonomy that they have been implying through tweets and even videos of Musk driving with his hands off the wheel. I hope the Feds throw the book at them--playing with people's lives so you can cut corners and boost your stock price is a road they should have never been allowed to go down. Ford, GM Cruise, Waymo, and others are doing it the right way and it will pay off in the long-term.

Definitely false on not having better materials in Lincolns vs. Fords. We own an Edge Titanium and a Continental Reserve, and I have also rented Mustangs, Explorers, Fusions, an MKZ, and an Aviator. Lincoln indeed does have better materials, at least the midsize and up models do. Not sure about the Corsair, but I would imagine it's similar to the MKZ. Continental and Aviator both have soft touch leather seats that cannot be found in any Ford product, and dash and door materials are softer and better grained. Sound deadening is better also. Even things like welcome lighting, interior chimes, and how the doors close all have a more premium feel. The Continental has massaging, heated, and ventilated seats available both in front and back seats, as well as rear reclining seats, 3 zone climate control, and automatic rear sunshades. You will not find those in Ford products. I have not been in a Mach E so maybe Ford stepped it up for that vehicle, but in my experience there is a notable quality upgrade to Lincoln interiors and far more tech and comfort features.

I've long speculated the rabid fandom around Tesla has to do with the fact that a lot of them probably invested in the company early on and are financially tied to the success of Tesla stock. Sort of like Scientology in a way. I'm guessing some are overleveraged and a big drop in the stock's value would impact a large portion of their net worth. So that is why you see this weird cult-like behavior and rushing to Elon's defense.

I really don't understand why Ford is watering down the ST nameplate by calling these ST-Line. Give it a different name...SL (Sport Line)? This is like Chevy sticking the SS badge on anything and everything back in the mid-00's.

The rear end looks 100x better than the current model. Everything else seems like a pretty mild update in comparison, but I do like the detail touches they brought to the interior wood trim.

I traded in my '07 MKZ for a Continental at a Ford-Lincoln dealership and they lowballed me and budged very little on trade-in value. They offered $1500 originally, it took a lot of work to get them up to $1800, but I was hoping to get closer to $2500. Of course they used the excuse that they can't get new inventory (this was mid-May) and that was the best they could do. A week later, I check their website to see if it is listed. Guess what they are selling it for? $7900! I about fell out of my chair. In the condition it was in (fair overall, but heavily corroded & peeling wheels, a little rust, and a few other minor cosmetic issues) it was only worth about $3100 private party value. It doesn't appear they did any reconditioning in the photos - it even has the old dealership sticker still on it. Not sure what dealer retail value was, but I can't imagine it comes anywhere close to $7900. I do think I got a great price on the Continental, and it was the cleanest one I found within 200 miles and very low miles, but in hindsight I should have shopped around more on the trade. Lesson learned. I've heard CarMax has been consistently paying over KBB trade-in value lately, and they were quoting me $2900. Wish I would have gone that route.

Should be a good improvement. I like the current Navigator overall, but I have never liked the taillights. They always looked like they were upside down. If rotated 180 degrees and slimmed down I think they would have fit in with the rest of the lineup much better.

I'm in the market for a new vehicle (currently have an MKZ) and this is exactly what I am looking for. Sadly, Ford is going to force me to look at another manufacturer because they will never bring something like this over here.

I was pretty negative toward Ford earlier this year, but ever since Jim Hackett was replaced with Jim Farley feels like the ship is finally turning around. I haven't added to my existing position, but the last couple weeks I have thought about picking up another couple hundred shares to bring the cost basis down a little. However, with an RSI at 75 right now Ford shares are a little rich and I'm waiting for another pullback. Seems to be a lot of support around the $8.75 level, which might be a better entry point.

If Ford is cutting out the ability to open the rear doors by touching the rear door handle sensor they are making a mistake. We have a baby and most of the time we are opening the rear doors on our Edge first to put her in. When you're carrying a child in a carseat and a diaper bag, not needing to fumble around with the keyfob or go for the front door handle first to get the rear doors open is an overlooked convenience that I am sure many parents appreciate and will miss when it is gone. I am happy to hear Farley is finally tackling warranty costs but sad to see more boneheaded cost-cutting from Ford.

They also technically left out the New Edge Mustang and the 05-09 (which didn't have the haunch at the B-pillar).

Personally, I would not be buying shares in any company until we see this virus slow or begin receding not just in the US, but globally. Don't try to catch a falling knife. This could all fall a lot farther and harder than it has so far. I hope I'm wrong, but it feels like early September 2008 right now.

I would recommend against buying stocks because they are low in price; it's a great way to lose money. I was one of the ones that was buying Ford way back when it was in the $1 to $2 range back in 2008/2009, and continued buying on the way up thinking it was going back to $20-30/share. I made some good money initially, but I lost a lot also by continuing to hold and hope for the best. This stock has been terrible since 2014, and I don't see things getting better any time soon. I have actually done far better in the last several years by selling off chunks of my Ford holdings and diversifying into other companies such as Microsoft, Intel, and Johnson & Johnson. Ford is considered very undervalued right now, so if you are going to take out a speculative position I don't think it will hurt, but don't expect to get rich off it. Auto stocks, especially mature companies like Ford, are just not very good investments in general. And Ford is even more difficult because the Ford family has so much control over the shares (which is great to keep the company family owned, but not necessarily good for stockholders). Add in the unknown effects of the coronavirus on China sales and the global economy; there are just way too many risks to the auto industry right now.

IMO, it's time for Hackett to go. He has been a disaster. This is what Hackett said this time last year about Ford's poor results and the outlook for 2019: 2019 ended up far worse than even 2018 was. The Explorer launch was a disaster, warranty costs continue to increase, every single market including North America is seeing declines, Ford continues to bleed market share, and the mobility division continues to be an increasingly larger drag on profitability. $3.7 billion net income in 2018 down to a measly $47 million in 2019. The only bright spot in 2019 was Ford Credit. I had high hopes for Hackett, but he is proving to be a major disappointment.

I like it, but it definitely feels Aviator-influenced.

It's a sign of a late stage bull market. People throwing money into companies with less than stellar financials because they want to try and catch the wave. Fear of missing out. It's obvious Tesla is manipulating its financials if you really dig into the numbers. The profit in Q3 was almost exclusively due to ZEV credits and Tesla pushing off some vendor payables into this quarter. We'll see if they sold enough vehicles to make another profit in Q4, but the stock definitely feels like it is in bubble territory right now.

My wife and I bought an Edge Titanium a couple years ago as her new daily driver. She was previously a Corolla owner. She has a harder time seeing out of it and seeing over the hood and doesn’t like parking it because she can’t tell where the lines are. Also, this may just be how the Edge’s suspension is set up, but it is not the most sure-footed vehicle over bumps and corners—my MKZ and even her Corolla had better ride quality on the terrible roads around my area. Long story short, she wants to go back to a sedan for her next vehicle…and Ford will have nothing to offer. And I’ve always driven sedans and Ford will have nothing to offer in the spring when I’m looking at another vehicle (besides the dead-man-walking Fusion and MKZ, and I’m not interested after hearing some of the de-contenting that is going on with 2020 models). Handling may not matter to the majority, but it does matter to some. Some people like having a trunk. Some people like a lower seating position. Some people like the better rear visibility out of a sedan. A few extra MPG may not seem like a big deal, but it does add up over time. I've seen a few comments that Boomers, Gen X, and Millennials are driving this move away from sedans. What is fashionable now may not be fashionable in 10 years, especially with Gen Z who have way different thought processes than even Millennials. They’re almost becoming the anti-Millennial generation. Ford is giving up on 1/3 of the market that buys cars now, and data has proven that orphaned buyers usually defect to other brands, so we will likely see more permanent market share loss. I did a quick excel spreadsheet, and Ford'st post 2008 market share peaked in 2011 at 16.67% and has been steadily declining every year since then, currently sitting at 14.12% YTD. So for years, Ford has been saying that we want to right size the business by cutting unprofitable models and segments, with the reasoning that fewer models and more efficiency will improve margins. Yet the facts so far do not bear this out; Ford's post-'08 operating margin peaked in Q1 of 2011 at 10.03%, and has steadily declined since then to 1.05% as of Q3 2019. Gross and net margins also peaked around 2011 and have been steadily decreasing since then. I'm not an accountant to really analyze deep into why this is happening, but clearly Ford is doing something wrong here and this is part of the reason Wall Street is so bearish on them. It's just interesting that despite all the cutting of models and brands throughout the years, and more focus on SUVs, that margins have never improved like they were supposed to. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/F/ford-motor/profit-margins

These are not going to age well. The proportions are all out of whack. You get the worst of both worlds - lack of utility with the sedan shape, and poor handling with the crossover ride height. That's why it worries me when Ford talks about "white space" CUV's that have a sedan shape....it's the answer to the question that nobody asked. Just give us sedans and CUV's and allow consumers to make a choice on whether handling or utility is more important to them.

I think this month is a precursor to what we are going to continue seeing if the economy goes into recession in 2020. Relying solely on high ATP SUVs is a mistake, especially when consumers become price sensitive in a downturn. Hopefully the new Baby Bronco and Bronco can stem some of that loss, but I don't have a lot of confidence in Ford lately with the botched Explorer/Aviator launches, Hackett's lack of clarity on the turnaround, and Ford's general performance in the market. Ford is likely going to permanently lose market share to Asian/German manufacturers who continue to invest in sedans. I'm one of those that will likely have to look elsewhere this spring, as much as I hate to do it because I have been loyal to Ford for the last 15 years. I don't like crossovers though, and unfortunately Ford has given me no choice but to look elsewhere. I am glad to see Lincoln continuing to do well. 10,850 is the highest monthly total I can remember in a long time...especially for November. In December months they usually crack 10K, but I can't remember the last time I saw a 10K total in November.

As much as I like to hear this, we've been hearing of the fabled RWD Lincoln sedan for years. I'm not going to get too excited until there more hard evidence or a concept. Follow up with a RWD 4-door Thunderbird for Ford on CD6 and maybe we can forgive them for dropping every sedan in the US lineup.

I know people that used to buy Mercurys, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, etc. They all drive Japanese cars now. The Big 3 threw away market share for years--decades--by watering down their middle brands, and then when sales declined to the point of no return, they justified the phase out by stating there was a lack of interest in the brand. It wasn't lack of interest--it was a lack of compelling product. Only a fraction of those Mercury customers went to Ford or Lincoln; the rest went to competitors. Ford's market share keeps decreasing every 10 years because they do nothing but constantly alienate customers and give them reasons to go to the competition. Killing sedans is only the latest in a long history of blunders. We actually put our money where our mouth is and purchased a 2017 Edge Titanium last year for my wife, and I will be ready for a new vehicle next year. We bought the Edge as a family vehicle, but even my wife doesn't really like the high center of gravity and more sluggish driving experience after coming from a Corolla. I have always driven sedans, typically sport sedans, and have no desire to buy a truck or crossover. A Mustang is too impractical at this point (I need four doors and a usable backseat). Ford is basically telling me to look elsewhere, and it is a shame. I never imagined I would have to do such a thing after all the years I have spent invested in this company from a time, interest, and financial standpoint.

No disagreement with the Mustang, but some people need a vehicle more practical than that. Ford is hanging their hat on one vehicle.

The future is dim for anyone that likes a vehicle that is nimble, handles well, and sits closer to the ground...sedan or otherwise. "Active" millennials are part of the problem, but Baby Boomers are the real ones killing off sedans. It's unfortunate, because not everyone wants a high riding vehicle, and it means those sales are going to go to a competitor.

Hackett is in over his head. I've been an investor in Ford since 2008 and am considering liquidating some or all of my shares for the first time. This company is lost and keeps drifting further out to sea.

Until they don't. We are at the tail end of bull market and people have spending freely the last few years, extending financing out to 72 months and beyond to keep monthly payments low. When interest rates rise and that bear cycle rolls around again, and buyers are forced to trim their budgets, Ford will be flat-footed with a bunch of expensive crossovers and people will look elsewhere. Tastes are cyclical and can turn on a dime. What people think is hot today may not be so tomorrow. The crossover is becoming the modern-day minivan for millennials who are starting to have families and empty nesters who are looking for ease of entry / exit. If I had to guess, we are about 5 years out from Peak Crossover before sentiment starts turning negative on the segment. Just right around the time that Ford will have fully phased out its sedan lineup. Instead of staying diversified, Ford is putting all its eggs into one basket just like in the late 1990's. And we all saw how that story ended.