JLaudioF150 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) What IF Ford had kept this duo and updated them as they deserved? IRS, V8, RWD, AFFORDABLE coupes. Isn't this what everyone is clamoring for now?! "Nah, it would have bitten into Mustang sales" Huh, considering they offered V6 SC models alongside the Mustang 5.0 of the time. No big deal then...was it??? Pardon the error: MN12 not MN112 Edited January 26, 2007 by JLaudioF150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I love my SC, which is why I still have it. I intend to keep it 'til Ford makes the Fusion I'm waiting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 No one wants a large RWD 2-door car with no trunk space or interior room. If Ford properly updated these car as they were from 1997, it would sell well for about 6 months, then drop off the radar. Now, if Ford built a SEDAN off that chassis with the right styling, then we'd be talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) If Nissan is able to peddle the Z for as much as they do, I don't see why Ford shouldn't be able to offer up a new Cougar/Tbird. Cost is a BS excuse! The hell with the Taurus Allan, the Cougar/Tbird are untarnished nameplates that have a loyal following. Edited January 29, 2007 by Michael Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I miss my 96 LX V8 very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 No one wants a large RWD 2-door car with no trunk space or interior room. If Ford properly updated these car as they were from 1997, it would sell well for about 6 months, then drop off the radar. Now, if Ford built a SEDAN off that chassis with the right styling, then we'd be talking No trunk room? News to me...the only restriction in my trunk is the shelf where the ride control comp is parked, which hangs down a few inches waaaay back in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 No trunk room? News to me...the only restriction in my trunk is the shelf where the ride control comp is parked, which hangs down a few inches waaaay back in there. Same here, my '92 Cougar had more than enough trunk and interior room. Used to load up the kid, crib, toy's and 2 weeks worth of crap in the trunk and head to Ohio on leave. Could fit 4 adults in comfort and 5 in a pinch. It was my idea of the perfect family car for someone not wanting a "family" car. Only thing I didn't like was those stupid track seat belts. As much as I loved mine and would like to see one like it built again, I don't think it would sell very well. For reasons I don't understand med/large 2 doors are not popular anymore. But I like your thinking JLaudioF150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 No trunk room? News to me...the only restriction in my trunk is the shelf where the ride control comp is parked, which hangs down a few inches waaaay back in there. I have a 1996 LX V8, and although wide and long, the trunk is absurdly shallow. It's not that its small, its that for a 200" long car, the trunk needs to be bigger. Don't get me wrong. I love my car to death, and would buy a new one in half a second if they were still being made, but I recognize that there aren't enough other people out there like me who would buy one. And Nissan can peddle the Z for 25-38k bcuz its a perfectly balanced RWD 2-seat sports car. Not to say its selling all that great, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 All over the car message boards are drivers of 10+ year old coupes demanding new ones. But, where did the buyers go? If supposedly "there is a market", there would be! Nissan's Z car is NOT a big personal luxo coupe, so no, it is not the same. With this day of higher energey costs, a two ton car with a small back seat and trunk isnt in demand. the Monte Carlo is dying off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystander Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) The MN12 was so over its cost and weight target that Ford fired the manager in charge. To think it could compete in today's marketplace with any 'updates' short of a clean sheet design is crazy talk. Hell, it couldn't compete in 1997 when you could buy a loaded one brand new for $15K. Edited January 26, 2007 by bystander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphy Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 The MN12 was so over its cost and weight target that Ford fired the manager in charge. To think it could compete in today's marketplace with any 'updates' short of a clean sheet design is crazy talk. Hell, it couldn't compete in 1997 when you could buy a loaded one brand new for $15K. It may have been overweight in 1989 but compared to today's rwd cars with IRS such as the Chrysler 300 it's about the same. I think the MN12 was ahead of its time in 1989 when it debuted: a midsized American car with IRS, sla front suspension, center mounted gas tank, ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
393Bird Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I am older than most car guys, and have had MANY cars over the years. I have a 93 Thunderbird that I will keep till Ford builds a nice roomy, comfortable 2 door. We have a 2007 Mustang convertible that my wife drives, but she admits that the Tbird is much more comfortable. I am sick of Detroit trying to stick all those SUVs and 4 door sedans on us. Anyone needing more trunk space than is in these MN12 series, should be happy with one of them fugly SUVs. If our kids were not grown, I would be happy with a 4 door, but I am not buying or driving one now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I had a 96 Tbird V8, then a 97 Mark8. For the time, those were excellent bangs for the buck offering IRS, V8, strong platform, great crash ratings, in a sophisticated 3500-3600lbs. platform (Hmm same thing with the DEW98, go figure). The trunk was not small at all, I believe it was over 15Cu.Ft., certianly bigger than my LS which is shallow, but for the MN112, you didn't have a fold-down rear seat which helps on my LS. But realistically, at 200In. long (207 for the Mark8), the platform didn't make the best use of space. Considering the 500 is roughly the same size and you have a huge rear seat, and largest trunk of any vehicle. Since the market has declined since then (and just because Altima is revisiting it, doesn't mean it's hot again), Ford has dropped the Tbird and Probe. Now people are buying into the "4door coupes" like the MB CLS500...it's really a four door sedan, but if you throw enough money, some people believe the label of "sedan" is replaced with "coupe". I oouldn't be surprised if the next T-bird, might be one of those "in-denial coupes".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLaudioF150 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 The MN12 was so over its cost and weight target that Ford fired the manager in charge. To think it could compete in today's marketplace with any 'updates' short of a clean sheet design is crazy talk. Hell, it couldn't compete in 1997 when you could buy a loaded one brand new for $15K. Well then I'm just another dumbass. Here and there I keep reading "oh please Ford please bring the MKR. Oh please please, longer Mustang platform, blah, blah,IRS, RWD a must. Oh, Chrysler's got it right. RWD, wah, wah, Five Hundred sucks, it's not the 300C, blah, now make something for Mercury like that, blah." Well, I know the MN12 wasn't a stretched Mustang, but with a similar equiped powertrain, RWD, and 'more legroom' than the Mustang...wasn't IT the thing we want now??? I think they died just because they were left to rot and they were stripped of options like: superchargers, adjustable ride height, 5.0s, fold down rear seats, etc. Not to mention no significant redesign in 9 years of existance. Anyone have sales figures for the twins during their service for Ford? I'm willing to to bet they outsold the Five Hundred or the Fusion. But then again, I'm just a dreamer and don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLaudioF150 Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 All over the car message boards are drivers of 10+ year old coupes demanding new ones. But, where did the buyers go? If supposedly "there is a market", there would be! Nissan's Z car is NOT a big personal luxo coupe, so no, it is not the same. With this day of higher energey costs, a two ton car with a small back seat and trunk isnt in demand. the Monte Carlo is dying off. It's dying because it also looks like shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Actually yeah they did sell well over 200K, all 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) I had a final year T-Bird with the 3.8L. Loved it. Black with a gray interior. BUT, the post above was true. Read "CAR". The book about the development of the 96 Taurus. They go into detail about how the MN112's were a complete and utter failure. They were way over cost and overpriced to make. The did not make money on them. That being said, they were a great car. I also had an previous gen 83 TurboCoupe w/ a 5 speed. Loved that car too. Times are a changin'. Maybe a nice adult sized two door will make a return in RWD form. One can only hope. Edited January 27, 2007 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordManBrad Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 We currently have a 92 Cougar as well as 96 and 97 TBirds. They are nice smooth refined cars. For the modest price, you couldn't find another car with the combination of an OHC V8 and RWD with IRS. One of the reasons for their demise was Ford's complete lack of improvements on the 3.8 V6 models. They had the same 140 hp rating from day one through their final day of life. With all of that weight to move, the base engine was only adequate. For those buyers not interested in upgrading to the V8, the base model wasn't too competitive. My dad bought an 04 Monte Carlo because Ford didn't offer the TBird anymore. The chassis and drivetrain of that car can't begin to compare with the RWD V8 TBird, even though its engine and chassis engineering is more than a decade older than the Chevy. It has that cheap GM FWD feeling. There is no doubt that the coupe market has shrunk considerably, and big coupes are low volume cars compared to decades ago, when cars like Cutlass Supremes and TBirds sold in the hundreds of thousands per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 You put your kid in the trunk? :D Well.......you know.....he wouldn't shut up, needed a new diaper............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang_Marty Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 From Edmunds.com TBird Cougar Mark 1986 163,695 135,904 1987 128,135 105,847 1988 147,243 113,801 ----- 1989 107,996 97,246 1990 104,602 76,467 1991 77,688 60,564 1992 73,892 46,982 1993 129,712 79,700 32,370 1994 120,320 71,026 28,164 1995 114,823 60,201 20,782 1996 85,029 38,929 13,625 1997 73,814 35,267 16,805 1998 0 0 14,357 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) I absolutely loved my 1989 Tbird and liked it more than the 1999 Mustang I had. It had plenty of rear seat room and trunk space. It had a great ride and well controlled rear suspension. I also enjoyed the low wide hoodline, low windshield cowl and steep rake. It looked more modern than the Mustang of the time. Matter of fact that Tbird has a lower more modern looking windshield cowl and flatter hood than even the new Mustang. Anyway, I am starting to resent the trend towards 4-door coupes. Small quad doors I may be able to accept, but four regular opening full sized doors and calling it a coupe just seems impure... There is something to be said about all the owners of the used MN12 cars. They love their cars and they have an enthusiastic following. And yes most of them would buy a newer model if it were offered. Ford doesn't care about those buyers. Ford will tell you "we have the Mustang or the Fusion". I wonder what the fate of the Thunderbird nameplate will be. I don't wanna see it RIP forever... The poll I started said most of you would rather have a 2-door RWD coupe for a Thunderbird. From Edmunds.com TBird Cougar Mark 1986 163,695 135,904 1987 128,135 105,847 1988 147,243 113,801 ----- 1989 107,996 97,246 1990 104,602 76,467 1991 77,688 60,564 1992 73,892 46,982 1993 129,712 79,700 32,370 1994 120,320 71,026 28,164 1995 114,823 60,201 20,782 1996 85,029 38,929 13,625 1997 73,814 35,267 16,805 1998 0 0 14,357 Interesting how the sales went up high in 1993 after a two year slump. Wasn't that the year they put the 4.6L V8 in it? Anyway, looking at the sales trends it is interesting that sales dropped in 1991 and 1992, picked back up considerably in 1993 & 1994 with the addition of the V8, then dropped off again in 1996 and 1997. 1996 and 1997 came around, they were sick of the styling and there was no new Tbird to buy as Ford abanonded the market completely. Edited January 27, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 When I got my license 30 years ago I wouldn't have been caught dead in anything with 4 doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I have a love hate relationship withthe MN 12's Love the cars but are the worst G.D things to work on. Nothign was easy to do on them. And the SC Birds were a down right bitch to change plugs on. IIRCC it was 6 hours book to do plugs on one. The AC and SC plumbing had to be removed to get a couple of them. Changing Fuel pumps was down right miserable job. Nothing was esy to fix on them. On the Up side nicely styled great ride good handeling for such a larger and heavy car. They were about average for reliabilty. Not out standing but not POS's either. It is too Bad Ford never evolved the platform. But that was par for the couse then. SUV's were way more important. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) When I got my license 30 years ago I wouldn't have been caught dead in anything with 4 doors. Me neither. Then I ended up with a 2003 Ford Escape (which I loved), a 2005 Cobalt 4-door company car and a beater 1992 Luminia 4-door. I was happy to buy another coupe again when I got the Cavalier. Now I want a coupe or convertible again for my next car. The question now is which one: New Mustang, a used retro Thunderbird , or New GTI? I would even consider a Fusion coupe if it was made. I like the Fusion okay but I just don't want to blend in with a sea of sedans branded with whatever manufacturers front end designs. I want something a little more special and personal. I did see a bright lime green Charger with black Daytona stripes today. That was interesting. It almost made me forgive the two extra doors. But I don't like Chryslers enough to ever buy one anyway. Edited January 27, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I have a love hate relationship withthe MN 12's Love the cars but are the worst G.D things to work on. Nothign was easy to do on them. Even changing the oil on a 4.6 LX T-Bird was fustrating with the oil filter having 1/2in of play to get it out off the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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