2007 Premium Midsize Sedan Sales

[waymondospiff]

Ford Five Hundred - 6,657

Ford Crown Victoria - 7,389

Mercury Montego - 2,295

Mercury Grand Marquis - 6,514

 

Buick LaCrosse - 3,791

Buick Lucerne - 5,672

Chevy Impala - 28,171

Pontiac Grand Prix - 5,582

 

Chrysler 300 - 9,138

Dodge Charger - 10,057

Dodge Magnum - 2,389

 

Toyota Avalon - 5,791

 

Nissan Maxima - 3,504

 

VW Passat - 3,439 (inc. 677 Passat Wagon sales)

 

Hyundai Azera - 2,812

 

Kia Amanti - 528

 

Such an interesting market as I wouldn't normally think too many cross shop the Maxima, 300, Impala, Amanti, Grand Marquis, and Five Hundred...but that's what you have.

 

Scott

[LincolnFan]

The Fivehundred actually outsold the Avalon.

[351cid]

The Fivehundred actually outsold the Avalon.

 

 

I saw that !!

 

My inlaws who both have Avalons are planning on buying a Taurus when they come out in '08. They love my wife's Five Hundred.

[LincolnFan]

I saw that !!

 

My inlaws who both have Avalons are planning on buying a Taurus when they come out in '08. They love my wife's Five Hundred.

 

Cool, what made them change their mind about the Avalon (if it's the 05+)?

[351cid]

The design of the car. The HVAC is a blooming nightmare to operate, and the cup hold design is rediculous. I can't get into the rear seat without hitting my head.

 

But my favorite comment from my father in-law was "After the engine troubles I've had, my next vehichle will NOT be a Toyota". Toyo got him on his engine replacement.

[LincolnFan]

But I thought the 3.5 V6 was a heaven-sent engine. rofl Toyota.

 

I have heard nothing but shit about the Avalon, I live in a country where they swear by Toyota, and the Avalon has a shitload of problems but it's still not a pos because of the T badge.

[LastMercury]

Grand Marquis kicks a$$

 

LOL

[taxman100]

Grand Marquis kicks a$$

 

LOL

 

Yes it does.

[goinbroke2]

7300 CV? I assume that's not fleet/police sales?

[630land]

OK if the Panthers, Lucurne, Impala, Avalon, and D3 are "mid size", then what is 'full size'? A stretch limo? You cant call something "Middle size" if there is nothing bigger than it!!!!

 

I think the global A,B,C,D,E class makes more sense than calling 75% of cars 'mid sized'

[PolarBear]

Anyone else notice the Vic still outsells the Five-Hundred? Yep- let's cancel that slow-selling POS, just like the Taurus. Oh whoops.... they're bringing that one back.

 

Reminds me of an old redneck saying- don't fix what ain't broke.

[armadamaster]

Chevy Impala - 28,171

 

28K Wimpalas? Nauseating. Of course, 1/2 of them I see around here have that cute little green "E" sticker on the back window. Enterprise will pick you up!

 

A hearty continued "LOL!" at the Five Hundread. Go Panthers! Especially the Vic! :shades:

Edited May 4, 2007 by Armada Master

[LincolnFan]

Yep, lets cheer for the car that has a %99.9 fleet sales.

 

Heck, even the panther mafia don't buy these vehicles new.

[armadamaster]

Yep, lets cheer for the car that has a %99.9 fleet sales.

 

Heck, even the panther mafia don't buy these vehicles new.

 

Still preferable to the lot dust bunny the Five Hundread is.

 

You can't find a Panther on the lot....if ya didn't know better you'd think they were unable to keep them in stock.

[swenson88]

No offense guys, but it's kind of hard to cheer for the Crown Vic sales when it isn't even sold to retail customers anymore. Getting excited about 7300 police cars and taxi cabs is a strange form of auto enthusiasm. I don't love the 500, I think it leaves a lot to be desired, but at least retail customers are buying it. A small plus, but still a plus.

[taxman100]

No offense guys, but it's kind of hard to cheer for the Crown Vic sales when it isn't even sold to retail customers anymore. Getting excited about 7300 police cars and taxi cabs is a strange form of auto enthusiasm. I don't love the 500, I think it leaves a lot to be desired, but at least retail customers are buying it. A small plus, but still a plus.

 

It's the chicken and the egg. Ford doesn't want to sell them at retail - look at the incentives vs. the Grand Marquis, complete lack of any material updates in the platform, etc. They have been wanting to kill the platform for years, but their customers won't let them. All of this has been covered multiple times, but the facts are Ford doesn't want to sell this platform anymore - they really want to kill the car.

 

Ford wants to convince their customers to buy a Five Hundred/Taurus in the worst way, to the point they are willing to give up Panther sales to do so. Sounds illogical, but that type of corporate politics that are allowed to fester in companies that are not well managed, and does not know, or worse, like their customers. Who in Corporate Ford is an advocate for the product? All the designers and upper management who had a professional stake in the car have long retired or been downsized. Too many careers are riding on the Five Hundred that they will hurt the company as a whole to keep their little niche.

 

In Ford's thinking, why sell a quality product that only needs a replacement every 10 years, when they can build and sell lesser quality products that need more frequent replacement?

[wescoent]

It's the chicken and the egg. Ford doesn't want to sell them at retail - look at the incentives vs. the Grand Marquis, complete lack of any material updates in the platform, etc. They have been wanting to kill the platform for years, but their customers won't let them. All of this has been covered multiple times, but the facts are Ford doesn't want to sell this platform anymore - they really want to kill the car.

 

Ford wants to convince their customers to buy a Five Hundred/Taurus in the worst way, to the point they are willing to give up Panther sales to do so. Sounds illogical, but that type of corporate politics that are allowed to fester in companies that are not well managed, and does not know, or worse, like their customers. Who in Corporate Ford is an advocate for the product? All the designers and upper management who had a professional stake in the car have long retired or been downsized. Too many careers are riding on the Five Hundred that they will hurt the company as a whole to keep their little niche.

 

In Ford's thinking, why sell a quality product that only needs a replacement every 10 years, when they can build and sell lesser quality products that need more frequent replacement?

 

It's not that Ford doesn't want to sell the car, it's that other programs have needed the money for the redesign more, and the Panthers cater to a different kind of customer than normal cars. The Crown Victoria is bought mostly by police and taxi companies, with a tiny handful of retail sales. The Grand Marquis is bought primarily by older customers (65+) looking for comfortable, reliable transportation, and don't want a Camry. The Town Car is about half and half between affluent retirees and livery/limos. Ultimately the majority of the Panther's customers are fleets, who prefer the cars not change too much year to year, and the rest of the buyers really don't care.

 

The difference between the Five Hundred/Taurus and the Crown Victoria is that the Taurus has a future, but the Crown Victoria does not, at least not in its current form. People under the age of 65 do not want a sedan larger than the Taurus. Cost-effective updates (3V 4.6, 6-speed auto, new styling/interior) would not make the car more desireable to younger people. Tastes in society have shifted. The Panthers have many great merits, but people don't know them. Ford could unleash a full-on marketing campaign to let people know, but between the cost of the redesign and the campaign, that money could be better spent on relevant market segments with a future. To be fair, the 300 and Charger don't have a future, in the sense they are inefficient fashion-mobiles that will go out of style sooner than later.

 

As for how Ford will keep the taxi, police, and limo sales, I don't know how they could if they get rid of the Panthers.

[armadamaster]

It's the chicken and the egg. Ford doesn't want to sell them at retail - look at the incentives vs. the Grand Marquis, complete lack of any material updates in the platform, etc. They have been wanting to kill the platform for years, but their customers won't let them. All of this has been covered multiple times, but the facts are Ford doesn't want to sell this platform anymore - they really want to kill the car.

 

Ford wants to convince their customers to buy a Five Hundred/Taurus in the worst way, to the point they are willing to give up Panther sales to do so. Sounds illogical, but that type of corporate politics that are allowed to fester in companies that are not well managed, and does not know, or worse, like their customers. Who in Corporate Ford is an advocate for the product? All the designers and upper management who had a professional stake in the car have long retired or been downsized. Too many careers are riding on the Five Hundred that they will hurt the company as a whole to keep their little niche.

 

In Ford's thinking, why sell a quality product that only needs a replacement every 10 years, when they can build and sell lesser quality products that need more frequent replacement?

 

Absolutely correct and absolutely idiotic all at the same time.

[Roadrunner]

These are full-size cars, not midsize.

 

// Captain Obvious

[2008fordtaurus]

Anyone else notice the Vic still outsells the Five-Hundred? Yep- let's cancel that slow-selling POS, just like the Taurus. Oh whoops.... they're bringing that one back.

 

Reminds me of an old redneck saying- don't fix what ain't broke.

 

Sure it out sold the Five Hundred but does that total include sales to police, taxi, rental agencies and senior centers?

[armadamaster]

I love how everyone boo-hoos about Panthers being fleet sales, even then, the tooling is LONG since paid for, so much to the fact that IIRC they STILL clear as much profit on one as they would an Expedition, etc. And no I don't have a link for stats to confirm this, just some common sense. Vic versus Five Hundread, I'd be willing to bet if they clear $5K on a Five Hundread they're clearing 10K on the Vic, fleet or not.

 

Some new styled door handles in league with the rest of the lineup, sharpen up the side profile with a new front clip and updated rear isn't going to break the bank. God forbid throw an engine option upgrade in there with some balls for laughs while keeping the 2v 4.6 as the base. It's still all gravy because I'd say the cars have bottomed out at this point regardless, so they only way to go is up with the smallest amount of effort.

[Bob Rosadini]

Some new styled door handles in league with the rest of the lineup, sharpen up the side profile with a new front clip and updated rear isn't going to break the bank. God forbid throw an engine option upgrade in there with some balls for laughs while keeping the 2v 4.6 as the base. It's still all gravy because I'd say the cars have bottomed out at this point regardless, so they only way to go is up with the smallest amount of effort.

As I and many others have said on this thread as well as others. Should be a no brainer. RWD is making a comeback and it would not take a lot of dollars to continue to be a player. AGAIN- NOT A LOT OF DOLLARS.

 

Love my 07 Sport. Set of Hella Fogs in the front fascia, set of Flowmaster 40's for a little bark and better then 22 mpg average. Take it on the road with the cruise set at 75 and it pushes 24 mpg. Now I know a lot of smart people will counter that it is "old", "dated" etc and would need a total redesign to make it "competitive". I disagree. Just as Armada has said,a few low buck tweaks, and a plant (STAP) with a good rep keeps cranking out decent numbers that show very quickly on the bottom line.

[NickF1011]

As I and many others have said on this thread as well as others. Should be a no brainer. RWD is making a comeback and it would not take a lot of dollars to continue to be a player. AGAIN- NOT A LOT OF DOLLARS.

 

I've yet to see any solid proof of this "RWD is making a comeback" argument. Much of this conjecture was based on the Chrysler 300. If you haven't noticed, sales of the 300 are already slipping. Mustang sales are also down. The RWD Impala has been delayed. I don't see anyone else running to fill the supposed "huge RWD void" in the marketplace. Should Ford tinker with the Crown Vic to appease fleet buyers? Sure, for now. Investments needed would be minimal. Should Ford invest the billions of dollars it would truly take to bring the Panthers into the 21st century? No way.

[Traveler]

RWD V8 cars will always be mostly favored by American enthusiasts and police. That's about it. Nobody really will likely choose RWD over FWD for any significant reason other than to feel a sense of connection with the past. Most buyers are likely those who (1) buy according to trends; (2) buy for looks; (3) buy for fuel economy and (4) buy for price. If the RWD is all those things, people will buy them.

 

EXAMPLE:

A female acquaintence bought an Infiniti G35 sedan and didn't have a clue whether the front or rear were the drive wheels!!

 

Soccer moms who have driven the SUVs through a decade of success never really cared what wheels were doing the pushing or pulling. The actual mechanicals do not impress them. When it comes to a car like the Charger or Crown Victoria, only police and those who savor V8 RWD cars really appreciate the actual powertrain/drivetrain layout. The rest just couldn't care less. If Ford stays with the Panthers or switches over to the unibody Interceptor concept for production, it will continue to be marketed mostly to police and a small niche of buyers. The key is the resale value of these vehicles and raising the desirability to own one...brand new.

Edited May 11, 2007 by Traveler

[Bob Rosadini]

Should Ford invest the billions of dollars it would truly take to bring the Panthers into the 21st century? No way.

Nick- No argument- I agree. I'm not suggesting they spend "billions" . But what I and others have said- for a relatively small amount of money you could tweak this car and continue to generate sales that add to the bottom line. It is ludicrous that you would keep the GM and trash retail sales of the CV. I and many others prefer the look ofthe CV and on dealer presence alone it wins!

 

As to your comment on the RWD market, Ford should OWN all the niche numbers that DCX is picking up. We soon will have the new Pontiac G-8 on the scene as well as Hyundai etc. Again, we are not talking about 300,000 cars a year- but we are talking about some decent numbers out of a plant that has to be fully depreciated and has a rep for turning out good products.