range Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 Looks like Toyota is planning for the number of defective engines to grow, or the possible recall referenced by the Toyota offical is close at hand. Toyota Spokesperson Bill Kwong : "Our dealers have approximately 1,600 new Tundras nationwide for disposal as a loaner vehicle while a customer's truck is being repaired, and that doesn't include older Tundras and Tacomas." "While meant more as an assurance that the company will do whatever it can to help out customers who find themselves with an affected engine, that statement also implies Toyota is at least prepared for the number to grow. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 And nobody is answering the question of WHY Toyota, knowing of the defect in FEBRUARY, continued to sell Tundras with the defective engines? No stop sale order, no build-and-batch, nothing. And the news of the defect didn't come to the surface until almost JUNE. Toyota is quick to blame their supplier, yet it was Toyota who allowed defective vehicles to get into customers hands despite knowing of the problem in February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davew Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Regarding the "only 20" claim....one only needs to go back to the Toyota Sludge debacle and see what Toyota claimed then, vs. what was actually proven in a court of law. Back then Toyota was claiming the sludge "only" affected a small number of vehicles. The recent class action victory for the sludge owners, and the discovery process showed the problem was a lot more widespread than Toyota claimed. Sludge owners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 And nobody is answering the question of WHY Toyota, knowing of the defect in FEBRUARY, continued to sell Tundras with the defective engines? No stop sale order, no build-and-batch, nothing. And the news of the defect didn't come to the surface until almost JUNE. Toyota is quick to blame their supplier, yet it was Toyota who allowed defective vehicles to get into customers hands despite knowing of the problem in February. Here's the answer: arrogance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Here's the answer: arrogance AMEN!! I hope this blows up in their face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Why didn't Toyota stop-ship? Because the camshafts were below spec, but the pressure was probably on to pass them anyway, and 'hope' nothing breaks. Ford did this in the past, got seriously burned, and they don't do it anymore. Toyota is in the same boat. They have human beings working for them motivated by the same basic desires as humans working for Ford or anywhere else. If they looked at Ford back in the late 90s/early 00s and thought, 'that can't happen here', well this incident is proof that it can and did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 It's becasue they wanted to beat GM out of the #1 spot so bad that anything was acceptable. When Japs get something in their heads like that , they would sacrifice their first born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford-boy Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Has NHTSA become involved yet? Has a preliminary safety study gotten underway? Edited June 1, 2007 by ford-boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 And honestly fellas... comparing these 20 (so far) camshaft failures to the myriad 6.0L PSD problems or the Explorer/Firestone problems... that's reaching just a wee bit, no? Let's see a little math here: 30,000 5.7 V8s, with 20 reported failures.....so far. That's 0.06% There were over 6 MILLION Explorers sold prior to the Firestone tire issue, with around 300 instances of tread separation reported. That's 0.005% Oh yeah...apples to oranges for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Let's see a little math here: 30,000 5.7 V8s, with 20 reported failures.....so far. That's 0.06% There were over 6 MILLION Explorers sold prior to the Firestone tire issue, with around 300 instances of tread separation reported. That's 0.005% Oh yeah...apples to oranges for sure! So far is the key... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 So far is the key... Yeah, I threw that in there right before I hit "submit post". I think that part is important to keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I suspect Toyota is getting ready to see what GM and Ford did years ago. They have peaked...it's down hill from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exploder48 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) So far is the key... Hey Toyota- this is what happens when you play with the big boys. The Tundra, no matter how you look at it is a LIGHT DUTY truck. Who the heck needs this ridiculous engine in a light duty truck? Serves 'em right. Edited June 1, 2007 by exploder48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark8LSC CE0464 Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) :happy feet: My sister has gone through 4 or 5 head gaskets on her 4-runner in a period of 50,000 miles. Their cars and trucks are always given a free pass by the media. I sure hope this gets bigger. Since the media won't treat this with due diligence, it needs to get huge so that the owners will start talking on blogs and websites. I will sleep like a baby tonight. Edited June 1, 2007 by Mark8LSC CE0464 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz928 Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Here's the answer: arrogance I am a Fleet and Commercial Manager on the west coast and I surveyed some of my Fleet accounts on the new Tundra and whether their clients were asking for prices on the new Toyota. About half of them were being asked but no one was ordering them due to their "in service" costs which is about half of what the F150 in service cost is. If the F150 was $ .06 a km, the Toyota was at least $ .12 a km. The in service costs take into consideration the aquisition cost as well as the cost of the recommended service intervals to maintain warranty. Toyota hasn't yet had any impact out here in Fleet and Commercial but I have heard they have just loaded more incentives to help move them so we'll see. I also agree with all of you that the automotive press here in Canada sucks for the most part and hold very dear their sentiments towards the japanese products. Thanks for this forum and the knowledge you share on it. Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 (edited) Let's see a little math here: 30,000 5.7 V8s, with 20 reported failures.....so far. That's 0.06% There were over 6 MILLION Explorers sold prior to the Firestone tire issue, with around 300 instances of tread separation reported. That's 0.005% Oh yeah...apples to oranges for sure! The Tundra was launched just over 90 days ago and their showcase, top of the line engine has already had 20 falures that Toyota would admit as of the time of the first article, there are likely more by now. This failure requires a complete engine replacement! At least the Firestone tires lasted a lot longer than 90 days. Firestone was sold to the Japanese tire company Bridgestone in 1988 so every one of those defective Firestone tires installed on Explorers were made by a Japanese company. Toyota uses Bridgestone tires on the new FJ-Cruiser and there was a recall on those tires within months of that vehicle's launch. Face it. It's official. Toyota has blown the launch of the all-new Tundra. Fact: Their inferior engineering is the reason the Tundra is dead last in safety ratings for the entire class (even the Titan beat the Tundra) Fact: Their inferior build quality has racked up 20 complete engine failures within 90 days. Fact: Toyota knowingly sold thousands of trucks that they knew had internal engine defects. Edited June 2, 2007 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cass Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 The Tundra was launched just over 90 days ago and their showcase, top of the line engine has already had 20 falures that Toyota would admit as of the time of the first article, there are likely more by now. This failure requires a complete engine replacement! At least the Firestone tires lasted a lot longer than 90 days. Firestone was sold to the Japanese tire company Bridgestone in 1988 so every one of those defective Firestone tires installed on Explorers were made by a Japanese company. Toyota uses Bridgestone tires on the new FJ-Cruiser and there was a recall on those tires within months of that vehicle's launch. Face it. It's official. Toyota has blown the launch of the all-new Tundra. Fact: Their inferior engineering is the reason the Tundra is dead last in safety ratings for the entire class (even the Titan beat the Tundra) Fact: Their inferior build quality has racked up 20 complete engine failures within 90 days. Fact: Toyota knowingly sold thousands of trucks that they knew had internal engine defects. Ford installed 85,000 bad transmissions in the last f series and recovered, not to mention the 6.0 problems, or the early 2001 5.4L engines going south. Toyota hasn't blown the launch, really all that matters is how they handle the problem. The larger and more american toyota gets the more of these problems they will have. I know several folks with camry sludge engines that were replaced free of charge that had in excess of 150k. Toyota has been building some of the worst engines for a while now... V6 truck engines total junk... 1997-2001 camry 4 cylinder .. more junk. celica 4cylinder... bad oiling system, junk. Somehow they have handled the problems well enough to maintain some customer satisfaction. The biggest problem with Toyota and their truck is that nothing american has the horsepower or refinement or MPG to compete... 2 valve pushrod engines went out in the late 1930's, and cast iron crankshafts went out with them. Fords 3V Hack job with nodular iron crank is no competition to anyone. Its cheap and runs ok but thats all you can say for it, and thats all the taurus had going for it the last 10 years of its life cycle(yeah I know but the new taurus is the 2nd coming). Ford should have shouldered way more of the blame over the explorer tires... any idiot would have known 26psi tires on a 4600 pound vehicle was trouble waiting to happen after a few pounds leaks off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Ford installed 85,000 bad transmissions in the last f series and recovered, not to mention the 6.0 problems, or the early 2001 5.4L engines going south. Toyota hasn't blown the launch, really all that matters is how they handle the problem. The larger and more american toyota gets the more of these problems they will have. I know several folks with camry sludge engines that were replaced free of charge that had in excess of 150k. Toyota has been building some of the worst engines for a while now... V6 truck engines total junk... 1997-2001 camry 4 cylinder .. more junk. celica 4cylinder... bad oiling system, junk. Somehow they have handled the problems well enough to maintain some customer satisfaction. Toyota Only replaced those motors when they were forced to, they did not do it willingly. They treied every trick in the book to get out of even blameing the customer. Nice try. The biggest problem with Toyota and their truck is that nothing american has the horsepower or refinement or MPG to compete... 2 valve pushrod engines went out in the late 1930's, and cast iron crankshafts went out with them. Fords 3V Hack job with nodular iron crank is no competition to anyone. Its cheap and runs ok but thats all you can say for it, and thats all the taurus had going for it the last 10 years of its life cycle(yeah I know but the new taurus is the 2nd coming). Yeah, the 5.7 Toyota is SO refined that it snaps the camshafts......HAHAHAHAHAHA! Ford should have shouldered way more of the blame over the explorer tires... any idiot would have known 26psi tires on a 4600 pound vehicle was trouble waiting to happen after a few pounds leaks off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 The biggest problem with Toyota and their truck is that nothing american has the horsepower or refinement or MPG to compete... arent the EPA MPGestimates the same for the F150 with the 5.4 and the 5.7 powered Tundra? isnt the 4.6L F150 rated HIGHER than the 4.7L Tundra? wouldnt it surpass it when they put the 6spd in the F150? how primative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Toyota hasn't blown the launch, really all that matters is how they handle the problem. The larger and more american toyota gets the more of these problems they will have. I'll give you a direct, simple to follow comparison. April 2006 Ford discovers a flaw in an internal automatic transmission part used in their trucks. This part is also from an outside supplier. Ford reacts as quickly as possable to prevent any transmissions with a known defect from reaching dealers or customers. Ford shut down 7 assembly plants until the problem was corrected 1-2 days 2-shifts per plant. Ford announced this entire problem on their website and hid nothing from the media or customers. See: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=23311 Febuary 2007 Toyota identifies defective camshafts but their reaction to the problem is the exact opposite! Instead of stopping production until the known defect can be corrected they continue to build engines with camshafts they know to be defective and say nothing. Only after the engines begin quickly failing exposing the defect did Toyota admit to building approximately 30,000 engines by their own estimates with camshafts they knew were defective and selling them to their customers. These comparisons are recent, relevent and direct. Toyota has already demonstrated "how they handle the problem." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8A4RE Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I'll give you a direct, simple to follow comparison. April 2006 Ford discovers a flaw in an internal automatic transmission part used in their trucks. This part is also from an outside supplier. Ford reacts as quickly as possable to prevent any transmissions with a known defect from reaching dealers or customers. Ford shut down 7 assembly plants until the problem was corrected 1-2 days 2-shifts per plant. Ford announced this entire problem on their website and hid nothing from the media or customers. See: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=23311 Febuary 2007 Toyota identifies defective camshafts but their reaction to the problem is the exact opposite! Instead of stopping production until the known defect can be corrected they continue to build engines with camshafts they know to be defective and say nothing. Only after the engines begin quickly failing exposing the defect did Toyota admit to building approximately 30,000 engines by their own estimates with camshafts they knew were defective and selling them to their customers. These comparisons are recent, relevent and direct. Toyota has already demonstrated "how they handle the problem." Thanks to this site I was able to warn two superduty owners about the trans flaw, their dealer didn't even know about it yet, both were repaired before failure and are happy owners today, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Let's see a little math here: 30,000 5.7 V8s, with 20 reported failures.....so far. That's 0.06% There were over 6 MILLION Explorers sold prior to the Firestone tire issue, with around 300 instances of tread separation reported. That's 0.005% Oh yeah...apples to oranges for sure! Let's count the number of deaths related to each part failure. Do your percentages matter now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Let's count the number of deaths related to each part failure. Do your percentages matter now? Let's extrapolate how many deaths will be caused by the Tundra's 4-star frontal crash rating compared to the Explorer's and F-150's 5-stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 (edited) Let's extrapolate how many deaths will be caused by the Tundra's 4-star frontal crash rating compared to the Explorer's and F-150's 5-stars. And then how many were inured or killed due to the outgoing "Heritage" model F-150's abysmal frontal crash rating. Edited June 4, 2007 by RAdams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 And then how many were inured or killed due to the outgoing "Heritage" model F-150's abysmal frontal crash rating. Do they still sell that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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