Close Lincoln or Mercury.....

[TStag]

Ford North America is hurting right now. It's got so many problem's that I could write a billion words on them, but you've heard all about that before. Globally Ford is doing ok though. Mazda is generating lot''s of cash, Ford International the same. PAG is making twice the revenue of Ford Europe. But the big problem is at home and then there is a problem at Jaguar.

 

In my view it's time to kill of a North American brand. Either Mercury or Lincoln. Concentrate on Ford and one other brand in North America and then allow the PAG brands to carve up the Lincoln/ Mercury dealer network between them. Think about it, Volvo, Jag and Land Rover are all international brands with strong name plates, respected all over the world. Lincoln and Mercury are forced to make cars based heavily on Fords. Take the new Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX. They are the same badge engineered car. Except Lincoln is pretending they came up with it. Ford only have to look at british Leyland to realise that in the long term this strategy will finish Lincoln off anyway.

 

Land Rover on the other hand is doing very well with it's own cars which do not have the stigma of being badge engineered. Why sacrifice profitable PAG when killing a Norh American brand off would probably do the trick. The remaining brand could then just sell Ford Europe's highly regarded cars, maybe alongside Jag and Land Rover. All the extra dealers would boost Jag and Land Rover maybe making Jag profitable overnight. Look at how SAAB now sells through GM dealers. Maybe killing Oldsmobile helped.

 

No time to get senimental about this. International brands are the future. Domestic brands are the past!

[PolarBear]

"Domestic brands are the past!"

 

I'm sorry- I just can't accept that.

[g48150]

"Domestic brands are the past!"

 

I'm sorry- I just can't accept that.

 

Well, Coca Cola, McDonalds, Apple, Wal Mart, Johnson & Johnson, Marlboro, and LOTS of other BRANDS say that he's wrong, I agree totally.

 

What America is selling (to this day) is the American Dream. Its getting more and more complicated every single day, but that's what IP (patents in general) are for, right?

[wescoent]

Ford North America is hurting right now. It's got so many problem's that I could write a billion words on them, but you've heard all about that before. Globally Ford is doing ok though. Mazda is generating lot''s of cash, Ford International the same. PAG is making twice the revenue of Ford Europe. But the big problem is at home and then there is a problem at Jaguar.

 

In my view it's time to kill of a North American brand. Either Mercury or Lincoln. Concentrate on Ford and one other brand in North America and then allow the PAG brands to carve up the Lincoln/ Mercury dealer network between them. Think about it, Volvo, Jag and Land Rover are all international brands with strong name plates, respected all over the world. Lincoln and Mercury are forced to make cars based heavily on Fords. Take the new Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX. They are the same badge engineered car. Except Lincoln is pretending they came up with it. Ford only have to look at british Leyland to realise that in the long term this strategy will finish Lincoln off anyway.

 

Land Rover on the other hand is doing very well with it's own cars which do not have the stigma of being badge engineered. Why sacrifice profitable PAG when killing a Norh American brand off would probably do the trick. The remaining brand could then just sell Ford Europe's highly regarded cars, maybe alongside Jag and Land Rover. All the extra dealers would boost Jag and Land Rover maybe making Jag profitable overnight. Look at how SAAB now sells through GM dealers. Maybe killing Oldsmobile helped.

 

No time to get senimental about this. International brands are the future. Domestic brands are the past!

 

I don't think it could be said enough. Lincoln and Mercury are NOT two seperate operations. Lincoln-Mercury is a two for one deal. Close both of them, or keep both of them open.

 

Lincoln is the brand Ford needs to concentrate on, of those two. Lincoln vehicles, while they don't need exclusive architectures or engine families, need to have distinct sheetmetal that isn't shared with Ford products. MKS versus Taurus is a perfect example of how the relationship ought to be. They share structural components, but looking at two side by side, you'd never guess they were related. Lincoln, along with Jaguar and Land Rover, should be the first to get cutting-edge technologies for their vehicles.

 

Mercury is Lincoln's companion brand. It gives dealers products to sell in the $20,000-$30,000 range. If people come in looking at Lincolns, and realize a Mercury can give them 95% of what they're looking for at 50-60% of the price, the dealer will have something for them. However, there will still be many people who want things you can only get in a Lincoln.

 

It costs very little to keep Mercury in business, and what little money they'd save wouldn't do any other part of the company any more good than it would do keeping Merc afloat.

[Blue II]

Ford North America is hurting right now. It's got so many problem's that I could write a billion words on them, but you've heard all about that before. Globally Ford is doing ok though. Mazda is generating lot''s of cash, Ford International the same. PAG is making twice the revenue of Ford Europe. But the big problem is at home and then there is a problem at Jaguar.

 

In my view it's time to kill of a North American brand. Either Mercury or Lincoln. Concentrate on Ford and one other brand in North America and then allow the PAG brands to carve up the Lincoln/ Mercury dealer network between them. Think about it, Volvo, Jag and Land Rover are all international brands with strong name plates, respected all over the world. Lincoln and Mercury are forced to make cars based heavily on Fords. Take the new Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX. They are the same badge engineered car. Except Lincoln is pretending they came up with it. Ford only have to look at british Leyland to realise that in the long term this strategy will finish Lincoln off anyway.

 

Land Rover on the other hand is doing very well with it's own cars which do not have the stigma of being badge engineered. Why sacrifice profitable PAG when killing a Norh American brand off would probably do the trick. The remaining brand could then just sell Ford Europe's highly regarded cars, maybe alongside Jag and Land Rover. All the extra dealers would boost Jag and Land Rover maybe making Jag profitable overnight. Look at how SAAB now sells through GM dealers. Maybe killing Oldsmobile helped.

 

No time to get senimental about this. International brands are the future. Domestic brands are the past!

 

We need to find you a staff position at Top Gear.

[2005Explorer]

If you have about 8 mins. watch this 1966 Lincoln commercial...it is hilarious.

 

 

Anyhow with that said...I am completely against dumping the Lincoln-Mercury division. Mercury is a supplemental volume brand to help the dealers. As it has been said before, Ford spends very little on Mercury and still comes up with a unique style for the brand. The fact is you are assuming that by dropping Lincoln and Mercury and replacing them with the more expensive European brands Ford will sell more cars and make more money. I think these brands sell to a very different customer. Lincoln can be something great again. That is is Ford wants it to be. Mercury can continue on doing what is has always done and that is sell differently styled and optioned Fords. The key is that Lincoln SHOULD NOT be a rebadge job.

[LincolnFan]

Why close Lincoln or Mercury? it would cost a lot of money and wouldn't really save any since they're just rebadges.

 

Now about Jaguar..

[kpc655]

Why close Lincoln or Mercury? it would cost a lot of money and wouldn't really save any since they're just rebadges.

 

Now about Jaguar..

 

Ford should definitely shutter one brand..i think mercury. its completely lost its way. Lincoln can still be salvaged as a premium brand.

 

people always say it doesnt cost much to keep it running..but what does it really bring? people arent stupid..they know that lincolns and mercury's are rebadged fords, i would venture that most would buy a ford if the lincoln or mercury optoin werent available.

 

i think the biggest problem with the ford/lincoln/mercury rebadging strategy that ford currently uses is the inherent compromises that must be made to each car. if a designer comes up with a great design..he/she knows immediately that each brand will want a version. and so the compromises start, the ford version cant be classier than the lincoln, but the mercury must be dressed out nicer than the ford. etc. etc. in the end you wind up with 3 mediocre cars where 1 (or 2) good ones could be.

 

ford should consolidate and focus on making really great ford's/lincoln's, not half ass ford/lincoln/mercury's

[silvrsvt]

Ford should definitely shutter one brand..i think mercury. its completely lost its way. Lincoln can still be salvaged as a premium brand.

 

I think thats whats happening, just looking at the facts over the past couple months:

• No Mercury Models at the Employee Future glance
  
• Persistent rumors that the Sable/Mongeto will go away in 2010 when the D3 is totally redone
  
• No Meta one/ Mercury Taurus X when mules where seen
  
• Ford's desire to cut back on dealerships, Lincoln folds under Ford dealerships or they pick up additional car lines
  
• Artificial limiting of Ford products (No HID or other High Dollar items)
  

[ZanatWork]

Close Lincoln or Mercury.....

 

 

Bad idea. Actually giving them the attention and resources they need has always been and will always be a better idea.

[SVT_MAN]

Sure, let's CLOSE THEM! Let's totally forget about Lincoln and Mercury's BRAND EQUITY. That's a good idea now, isn't it? I bet you anything, there are more people with good experiences with Mercurys and Lincolns than Fords. Many people who REFUSE to buy a Ford WILL buy a Mercury or Lincoln.

 

Let's close Mercury. Good idea, especially since it's one of the few Ford brands that a lot of women are beginning to latch onto. One of my friends from college - her mom thinks that Fords are the crappiest vehicles on the road and can't figure out why I would drive a Mustang. Yet, since she doesn't realize Mercury is attached to Ford, and she told me that my Mercury Sable was a "nice looking car."

 

These types of attitudes are a lot more frequent than you might realize. (Note: I would love to punch this lady, she drives an ISUZU, and she's making fun of my Ford Mustang! I dislike her on many levels anyway. She has a 6 year old that she treats more like a 3 year old. It makes me sick.)

 

No, let's close Lincoln, a brand that I'm beginning to see some 30-somethings sophisticates latch onto with cars like the MKX and MKZ.

 

Let's face it: PAG makes more sense. PAG has smaller volumes. They aren't profitable volumes like Porsche either. Porsche knows how to turn a profit on very few cars. It's obvious that Jaguar in its current state sucks at this. The rest of PAG also has work to do. While I love Jaguar and it's near and dear to my heart (my family owns TWO Jaguars), I think Ford has probably pushed it away beyond repair unless the S-Type replacement is just amazing.

Edited June 11, 2007 by SVT_MAN

[FordBuyer]

I think thats whats happening, just looking at the facts over the past couple months:

• No Mercury Models at the Employee Future glance
  
• Persistent rumors that the Sable/Mongeto will go away in 2010 when the D3 is totally redone
  
• No Meta one/ Mercury Taurus X when mules where seen
  
• Ford's desire to cut back on dealerships, Lincoln folds under Ford dealerships or they pick up additional car lines
  
• Artificial limiting of Ford products (No HID or other High Dollar items)
  

 

Yep, all evidence points to slow fade out of Mercury brand. Also best way to prune couple thousand dealerships. Evidence also points to resurgence of Lincoln with MKX, MKZ, MKS and new Lincoln version of new Ford Flex. I imagine that could change if Mercury does well with what little it has, but sure looks like Mercury is the one to go.

[Deanh]

Yep, all evidence points to slow fade out of Mercury brand. Also best way to prune couple thousand dealerships. Evidence also points to resurgence of Lincoln with MKX, MKZ, MKS and new Lincoln version of new Ford Flex. I imagine that could change if Mercury does well with what little it has, but sure looks like Mercury is the one to go.

don't get it...lincoln ?Mercury dealerships ...they are joint NOT individual....if they do phase out the chrome grilled Ford spin-offs ( Mercury ) then perhaps this opens the door to concentrate FULLY on Lincoln indivduality and perhaps move a little bit up- market to differentiae from their Ford Bretheren...NOT in my opinion a bad move.....they have been practicing on Jaguar and Aston for how long now?

[FordBuyer]

don't get it...lincoln ?Mercury dealerships ...they are joint NOT individual....if they do phase out the chrome grilled Ford spin-offs ( Mercury ) then perhaps this opens the door to concentrate FULLY on Lincoln indivduality and perhaps move a little bit up- market to differentiae from their Ford Bretheren...NOT in my opinion a bad move.....they have been practicing on Jaguar and Aston for how long now?

 

Yeah...I personally can't envision Lincoln and Ford products under one roof. I would think Lincoln would be stand alone brand, but you sure wouldn't need near as many Lincoln/Mercury Dealerships as now. Maybe 30% of what you have now. Way too many Lincoln/Mercury Dealerships for the volume they are selling now. I do know that in small towns Lincoln/Ford/Mercury are all combined into one Dealership.

 

Maybe Ford will keep partial ownership in Jaguar like with Aston Martin and combine all their premier vehicles under one roof. I would be willing to bet that Ford keeps at least 20% interest in Jaguar and Land Rover.

[Ovaltine]

I personally think that Mercury should be the brand that the Euro Fords are imported and marketed under. (Can anyone say "Original Capri"? see below) Faze out the models that are rebadged Fords as the Euro Fords are federalized and brought online. This way, the expensive Euro Fords can be marketed at an upscale price that North Americans potentially would be willing to pay.

 

 

Lincolns could remain being based on the Fords, but I do think that more unique sheetmetal would be required to be successful. Big-ass taillights and tons of chrome dreck hanging off of a car does NOT a luxury/premium car make.

 

A unique tweaked "Hot Rod Lincoln" drivetrain could also be reserved for the Lincoln product (can we also say "Northstar"?)

 

 

 

Under the above configuration, the 3 brands make sense. But the business model of 3 nearly identical models off of the same chassis is too much like the GM of old.

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited June 11, 2007 by Ovaltine

[TStag]

Like it or not the reason Ford is considering selling off all of PAG is because they have to many things to focus on and to many things eating up cash. As a whole PAG is profitable. It is not soaking up cash any more. But Ford is desperate so they must go. As Mullaly's strategy is to focus more on Ford then cutting one of the US brands makes sense. The one that remains can just sell Euro Fords. Lincoln and Mercury have serious image problems. They are as so many people on here point out to me regually just rebadging Fords, in true British Leyland tradition may I add. That strategy didn't work for BL and it won't work long term for Ford. Lincoln or Mercury needs a clear independant styling direction. Based on current sales it is difficult to see how they could achieve profitabiity and develop their own more unique cars. They rely totally on sharing nearly every component with Ford. Sure Jag struggles at this too, but at least they manage to sell in more than one country! Long term for Mercury or Lincoln to have a future one brand needs to recieve the attention it deserves and the cash it needs.

 

All I'm saying is that if Ford is DESPARATE enough to sell profitable PAG then does anyone seriously believe Lincoln and Mercury will survive?

[mkaresh]

I think Lincoln will survive, partly by moving downmarket. Mercury won't be around much longer. Unlike GM's weaker brands, Mercury was never a strong brand.

[ZanatWork]

If they kill Mercury, they've officially decided to let bad judgements be their own reward and punishment.

 

The brand could and should be what they want: a hipper, more stylish division that attracts people between the images of Ford and Lincoln...and Lincoln needs to move UPmarket, not downmarket.

 

Neither Ford nor Lincoln is a great fit for entry-lux...but Mercury would fit there nicely if MANAGED worth a damn. When the MKZ goes to the 3.7 motor (ooooh, if only it were Twinforced), an AWD Milan with the 3.5 for around $30K suddenly leans on the A4s of the world.

 

The plan they have is actually good...but they won't completely execute it.

 

 

Dammit...Mercury really DOES need me!

[Deanh]

If they kill Mercury, they've officially decided to let bad judgements be their own reward and punishment.

 

The brand could and should be what they want: a hipper, more stylish division that attracts people between the images of Ford and Lincoln...and Lincoln needs to move UPmarket, not downmarket.

 

Neither Ford nor Lincoln is a great fit for entry-lux...but Mercury would fit there nicely if MANAGED worth a damn. When the MKZ goes to the 3.7 motor (ooooh, if only it were Twinforced), an AWD Milan with the 3.5 for around $30K suddenly leans on the A4s of the world.

 

The plan they have is actually good...but they won't completely execute it.

Dammit...Mercury really DOES need me!

A poet heading a brand veiwed as the cars of choice for blue hairs, women and rap stars...kinda makes sense.........LOL! teasin Zan....teasin....

[one2gamble]

Like it or not the reason Ford is considering selling off all of PAG is because they have to many things to focus on and to many things eating up cash. As a whole PAG is profitable. It is not soaking up cash any more. But Ford is desperate so they must go.

 

 

I seriously have a hard time with this argument.

 

Different management teams, design teams, manufacturing centers etc etc etc. If Ford NA closed its eyes they wouldnt even know PAG existed. PAG at this point in time is being used as a goat.

 

blah blah its not our fault, look at the resources PAG has sucked up.

 

Those resources didnt lead you down the path of building crappy freaking cars.

[TStag]

I seriously have a hard time with this argument.

 

Different management teams, design teams, manufacturing centers etc etc etc. If Ford NA closed its eyes they wouldnt even know PAG existed. PAG at this point in time is being used as a goat.

 

blah blah its not our fault, look at the resources PAG has sucked up.

 

Those resources didnt lead you down the path of building crappy freaking cars.

 

You've hit the nail on the head. PAG is a scape goat. In the grand scheme of things Ford needs to fix Ford NA, the rest of the company is doing ok. That's partly why I started this thread, people seem obsessed with PAG yet that bit made 200 million dollars in Q1 of 2007. If Dearborn think PAG is the problem then Ford has much bigger issues than we realised....

[mercurymichael]

What I don't get is after years of neglect and realatively little effort, Mercury is starting to turn a corner and gain some momentum on little bit of new product, badge engineered as it may be, and some advertising and now there is new game plan. Ignore Mercury and focus on Lincoln which has been igorned even longer and is not showing the same potential as Mercury.

 

Both were great brands and definately worth saving. If Ford does sell PAG, I hope they use the cash flow to fix L/M. This is what should have been done 15-20 years ago. If they had they probably wouldn't be in quite the mess they are.

 

Granted it will take time, but there is absolutely no reason Lincoln, even Mercury, could not be global brands once the product mix is right. Jag is a global brand and not performing at all. With rising gas prices look for Land Rover to fall. Volvo is truely the only one of the three that seems to be much of anything and their sales have not been stellar of late.

[David Johnson]

Neither Ford nor Lincoln is a great fit for entry-lux...but Mercury would fit there nicely if MANAGED worth a damn. When the MKZ goes to the 3.7 motor (ooooh, if only it were Twinforced), an AWD Milan with the 3.5 for around $30K suddenly leans on the A4s of the world.

 

A $30k Mercury with econobox switchgear?

 

 

[BlackHorse]

A $30k Mercury with econobox switchgear?

 

 

 

I have to go with David on this one. Nobody is going to pay 30 thousand for a Milan just because they put a 3.5 motor in there, not with the current interior that is parts bin galore. Everyone around here knows I'm one of the most vocal opponents of the cheap looking radios that Ford has been using for a long time now. I know they are working to get away from it. But honestly, you think a lot of people will pay 30K for a Milan with it's current interior level just because it has a 3.5 and it's AWD? I don't see it happening.