DOA: Mercury and Mark LT

[NickF1011]

Mercury IS the Grand Marquis, if you don't keep up with your number one seller, then WTF are you doing?

 

Umm...Mariner and Milan outsold the Grand Marquis in August. Sable and Montego combined were about even, as was the Mountaineer. Just like I told you in the Lincoln thread....Mercury has moved on. Panther fans should too.

[RichardJensen]

Oh, WOW was I ever off...one gussied up rebadged Ford truck for Lincoln to another one....you're right, BIG difference.

Was the Blackwood a rebadged Ford truck?

 

Or was it a Navigator with a pickup bed?

 

Do some research and get back to me.

[Ralph Greene]

I would not have gone to a local Ford dealershipo to buy a Five Hundred instead of buying our Montego from a L/M dealership. For one thing, the Montego has HID head lights (a huge big deal to my wife and daughter), something the Five Hundred didn't offer. My daughter would buy a new Milan this afternoon if it had HID's. Also no Ford dealership is accustomed to giving the level of service we get from our L/M dealership.

 

I kinda doubt if the sales of Mariners, Milan's, and Sables would/could be transferred to Ford dealseships. So what's wrong with a liittle rebadging, and adding a few gadgets to make the Mercury products just a tad more upscale? And....if you take away these products from the L/M dealseships, what do they replace those sales with....and how do they stay in business? If they are struggling to stay in business, who sells the Lincolns Ford is developing?

Edited September 6, 2007 by Ralph Greene

[wescoent]

Was the Blackwood a rebadged Ford truck?

 

Or was it a Navigator with a pickup bed?

 

Do some research and get back to me.

 

From a structural standpoint, the F-150 and Navigator were extremely similar, but the Blackwood shared the interior, front sheetmetal, and engine with the Navigator, with completely unique sheetmetal in the back, as well as a nifty bed. Perfect example of how Fords and Lincolns should be related, but the market balked, being as it was completely useless as a truck. The Escalade EXT barely sells, so I suspect this segment, even when done right, is a pointless exercise at best.

 

The Mark LT handsomely served its purpose as a temporary product filler for dealer, and as an F-150 in a tuxedo. This indicates that quality Lincoln product is on the way, and that fillers like the Mark LT are a thing of the past. Lincoln might be able to figure out how to take the Navigator L, and put a bed on the back, and sell it as the Navigator LT, but otherwise, there's really no point.

[retropia]

This post will probably get me flamed, but it's how I feel. I'm willing to hold my nose and deal with a Toyota dealership in order to get a Toyota. With any luck, I'll rarely have to return to the dealer for service.

 

On the other hand, I don't want to hassle with the average Ford dealership in order to own a Ford product. If I decide I'm willing to deal with slightly higher odds of having to frequent a dealer's service department, I'd rather pay a little more and be treated better at a Lincoln-Mercury dealer. But I'm not willing to pay Lincoln prices for that honor.

 

I think keeping Mercury around gives Ford a chance to attract buyers like me, who don't like the average Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota or Honda dealership experience. Charge me a little more than a Ford, give me something a little nicer, and treat me better.

[rmc523]

From a structural standpoint, the F-150 and Navigator were extremely similar, but the Blackwood shared the interior, front sheetmetal, and engine with the Navigator, with completely unique sheetmetal in the back, as well as a nifty bed. Perfect example of how Fords and Lincolns should be related, but the market balked, being as it was completely useless as a truck. The Escalade EXT barely sells, so I suspect this segment, even when done right, is a pointless exercise at best.

 

The old ('97/'98-'02/'03) Expedition, F-150, Navigator, and Blackwood all used the same basic interior, with some minor cosmetic changes to differenciate between the Fords and Lincolns.

 

'04 Lightning

'02 Expedition (ignore top part of image)

'02 Navigator

'01 Blackwood

Edited September 7, 2007 by rmc523

[danup]

GM tried their notorious "name change game" and killed off Olds with a lack of product, and now they are doing the EXACT same thing to Buick and we'll just see where that goes.....

 

GM was foolish to drop Olds, I've heard it cost them millions to close Olds out, but SAAB was a bargain...

 

GM poured a ton of money into Olds. There was some outstanding product, even--the second gen. Aurora was a beautiful car, and Intrigue and Alero were no more heinously badge-engineered than anything else GM was making at the time. But after refreshing their entire lineup, remaking their image with a new logo and a flagship car, and a ton of advertising, they still hadn't made a major recovery.

 

I wish it had been Buick, because I love the Aurora/Intrigue Olds design language, but to say that GM didn't give it the college try before they pulled the plug is disingenuous.

[NLPRacing]

Was the Blackwood a rebadged Ford truck?

 

Or was it a Navigator with a pickup bed?

 

Do some research and get back to me.

 

It was based on a SuperCrew with the Navigator engine, interior & front clip with a stupid trunk like thing in lieu of a real bed. If it would have had a real bed with a hard cover, I think it would have done better. The goofy trunk kept it off my list.

 

The Mark LT is/was nothing but a rebadged F150 SuperCrew. It's about the same as a Lariat and not even as nice as a King Ranch. Same engine, tranny, interior, everything...except badges.

 

I really think Lincoln is missing out by not offering a true luxury pick-up with a real bed & capacity. Maybe the Mark LT can make a comeback when the next SuperDuty comes out.

 

Personally, I would like to see a Navigator LT similar to an Escalade EXT with the Saleen Supercharger. If that was available, it would already be in my driveway...

[RichardJensen]

Like the Escalade EXT, the Blackwood had an integrated box. It wasn't separated.

 

And on the Escalade. Ouch. I wonder how many of those it will take to pay off the money spent differentiating it from the Avalanche.

[armadamaster]

Like the Escalade EXT, the Blackwood had an integrated box. It wasn't separated.

 

And on the Escalade. Ouch. I wonder how many of those it will take to pay off the money spent differentiating it from the Avalanche.

 

And what do the Escalade EXT, Blackwood, Mark LT, and Avalanche all have in common? They are all perceived as TRUCKS by the potential buyers.

 

What do all the aforementioned NOT have in common? The Blackwood and Mark LT are flops.

[rmc523]

The Mark LT handsomely served its purpose as a temporary product filler for dealer, and as an F-150 in a tuxedo. This indicates that quality Lincoln product is on the way, and that fillers like the Mark LT are a thing of the past. Lincoln might be able to figure out how to take the Navigator L, and put a bed on the back, and sell it as the Navigator LT, but otherwise, there's really no point.

 

Kinda like this?

 

I named it the Mark LT, but it could be named Navigator LT like you said. Based off the Navigator L, with an even longer wheelbase though.

Edited September 8, 2007 by rmc523

[RichardJensen]

What do all the aforementioned NOT have in common? The Blackwood and Mark LT are flops.

Escalade has more differentiation than the Mark LT and sells in smaller volumes. How does that make the Mark LT a flop?

[suv_guy_19]

Like the Escalade EXT, the Blackwood had an integrated box. It wasn't separated.

 

And on the Escalade. Ouch. I wonder how many of those it will take to pay off the money spent differentiating it from the Avalanche.

 

 

Again you've proved how little you know. The Mark LT sells in higher volume than the EXT. If anything, the EXT is a flop.

[630land]

Who really cares or gives a shit about the LT? There are no Lexus, Beemer, or M-Benz pickups, that is the real competition.

 

 

Also Mercury could die off tomorrow, and only the hobbyists and car history fans would cry. There hasn't been any true Mercurys since the 70's. Best way is to let it fade away, and offer stronger dealers other products. Also, with FoMoCo wanting to cut dealers, and it will happen with attrition, they can easily cut the brand without speding $1B like GM did. Olds dealers that were doing well should have gotten Saturns to sell, plain and simple.

[armadamaster]

Escalade has more differentiation than the Mark LT and sells in smaller volumes. How does that make the Mark LT a flop?

 

Discontinued to "sales aren't high enough" after only three model years constitutes a flop in my book.

 

"Sales aren't high enough"

 

And believe me, I don't think the Escalade EXT is a rousing sucess either.

 

Back to Mercury, I did notice for the first time in months some Jill Wagner Mariner/Milan ads.....odd though I have not seen her in a Grand Marquis ad to date....

Edited September 8, 2007 by Armada Master

[LincolnFan]

Back to Mercury, I did notice for the first time in months some Jill Wagner Mariner/Milan ads.....odd though I have not seen her in a Grand Marquis ad to date....

 

Jill is supposed to give the male buyer something to lust over... well you get the point why she doesn't do GM ads.

[CarShark]

I wouldn't be too sad if Mercury went away. I don't really like the cars of any of the "premium" mid-market brands. The balance between luxury and value is such a hard one to crack. Most don't do it right, and it's damn near killed VW (along with other reasons). I think the whole industry needs to abandon near-luxury. I know that GM is probably still paying for Olds (I think it ended up being $1 billion total, all told), but I think it's easier to distinguish a brand as representing performance (like GM's trying to do with Pontiac) or off-roadworthiness (like Jeep and Hummer USED to do) than just being more luxurious. I mean, would people continue to pass on a well-priced, high-spec'd Fusion for whatever Milan's are left just because of the badge and dealer experience? Wouldn't the Fusion benefit from $10,000 worth of room for content (and just being a better car) before it bumped heads with the cheapest Lincoln rather than immediately going against itself with an opposing badge?

 

If and when Pontiac becomes all RWD, there will be a big difference between Poncho's mid-sized offering and Chevy's, one that I think will benefit both brands.

 

I'm surprised to see RJ defend Mercury, since he's savaged Saturn so. They're basically the same idea: take a "pedestrian" mass market car, glam it up a bit, then sell it as "different". I was liking the Euro-ness of Saturn, but as GM gets better at making its cars more "global", with shared platforms, engines, transmissions...what will differentiate the cars then besides feature content and resulting price?

[RichardJensen]

I'm surprised to see RJ defend Mercury, since he's savaged Saturn so. They're basically the same idea: take a "pedestrian" mass market car, glam it up a bit, then sell it as "different". I was liking the Euro-ness of Saturn, but as GM gets better at making its cars more "global", with shared platforms, engines, transmissions...what will differentiate the cars then besides feature content and resulting price?

Well, because I don't see that strategy for Saturn making any sense.

 

I see Saturn as working best as a "Gee, that was easy!" kind of car. Simple, not necessarily cheap, but certainly inexpensive, building off the whole, "Gee, that was easy" purchasing experience and service experience that they've built up in a rather short period of time.

 

I mean they've -got- great brand equity--and instead of investing in it, they're squandering it.

 

I see Saturn as moving toward an IKEA type brand--make the showrooms (and the cars) colorful, a bit quirky, kind of avant garde, but simple, friendly, the car that says, "Hi." Something accessible, non-threatening, not imposing, etc.

 

That's what they should've done--sort of embrace their status as 'cars for people that don't like cars.'

 

Instead you've got this whole "It's our import fighter" attitude that just doesn't make any sense from a customer-centered point of view.

 

---That's why I'm not impressed by Saturn---

 

-- Oh, and Armada Master: We have it more or less confirmed that the Mark LT dies next year. How do we know the Escalade will make it much farther?

[armadamaster]

Well, because I don't see that strategy for Saturn making any sense.

 

I see Saturn as working best as a "Gee, that was easy!" kind of car. Simple, not necessarily cheap, but certainly inexpensive, building off the whole, "Gee, that was easy" purchasing experience and service experience that they've built up in a rather short period of time.

 

I mean they've -got- great brand equity--and instead of investing in it, they're squandering it.

 

I see Saturn as moving toward an IKEA type brand--make the showrooms (and the cars) colorful, a bit quirky, kind of avant garde, but simple, friendly, the car that says, "Hi." Something accessible, non-threatening, not imposing, etc.

 

That's what they should've done--sort of embrace their status as 'cars for people that don't like cars.'

 

Instead you've got this whole "It's our import fighter" attitude that just doesn't make any sense from a customer-centered point of view.

 

---That's why I'm not impressed by Saturn---

 

Big +1 on Saturn, and I'd like to ad they should go back to targeting high school and college students, that demographic has worked best for them in the past.

 

-- Oh, and Armada Master: We have it more or less confirmed that the Mark LT dies next year. How do we know the Escalade will make it much farther?

 

Hopefully, it won't.

 

Jill is supposed to give the male buyer something to lust over... well you get the point why she doesn't do GM ads.

 

[RichardJensen]

Hopefully, it won't.

What? That ridiculous pseudo-truck is --- well it makes all of us look bad by association.

[Watchdevil]

Back to Mercury, I did notice for the first time in months some Jill Wagner Mariner/Milan ads.....odd though I have not seen her in a Grand Marquis ad to date....

 

I am sure they can get Jill's Grandmother to do the Grand Marquis ads.... It will have all the excitement of a Metamucil ad...

 

Ever notice the first seven letters of the car's name spells GRANDMA... GRANDMArquis... LOL!

 

Edited September 9, 2007 by Watchdevil

[armadamaster]

Ever notice the first seven letters of the car's name spells GRANDMA... GRANDMArquis... LOL!

 

Thanks for that!

Edited September 9, 2007 by Armada Master

[NLPRacing]

Like the Escalade EXT, the Blackwood had an integrated box. It wasn't separated.

 

And on the Escalade. Ouch. I wonder how many of those it will take to pay off the money spent differentiating it from the Avalanche.

 

 

The Lincoln Blackwood box or trunk or whatever you call what very much separate from the cab. Like I said it was SuperCrew based. The fact that it many unique items compared to the SuperCrew was a very good thing, but had it come with the SuperCrew box, I believe it would have done much better then it did with its "trunk". That pseudo bed with its carpet and stainless steel made it very expensive and pretty much useless as a "truck".

[RichardJensen]

 

The Lincoln Blackwood box or trunk or whatever you call what very much separate from the cab. Like I said it was SuperCrew based. The fact that it many unique items compared to the SuperCrew was a very good thing, but had it come with the SuperCrew box, I believe it would have done much better then it did with its "trunk". That pseudo bed with its carpet and stainless steel made it very expensive and pretty much useless as a "truck".

Ay Carumba!!!

 

There's a guy in town who actually owns one of those. I could have sworn it had an integrated box----

[NLPRacing]

Ay Carumba!!!

 

There's a guy in town who actually owns one of those. I could have sworn it had an integrated box----