Ford October 2007 Sales

[Pioneer]

I remember Austin saying something about OAP was actually 3 plants?

Two plants merged into one complex. One was the old OTP plant, and the other assembled the Windstar.

[matthewq4b]

What I simply suggested means massive changes other products and

assembly lines, something Ford is obviously loathed to do without good cause.

 

I remember Austin saying something about OAP was actually 3 plants?

 

 

STAP could handle the volume remember there is also the full size luxo barge to contend with so there is anouther 2- 4k units a month. STAP was turning out near 500K units a year back in the 80's.

 

 

 

Matthew

[ShockFX]

Problem is Shock the Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit. Hate them all you want they have consistanly been one of Ford's biggest money makers. They have consistanlty out perfermed the D3's profit wise. And have pretty much matched them sales wise.

 

Apparenlty your against Ford making Money.

Who cares if they Old or mostly Fleet as long as the make money build them.

 

If Ford would get thier shit togther and actually do some thing withthe damn cars or the the segment as a whole then maybe they could see some real money. The whole D3 large sedan program has been on the go for almost 4 years now (jan 2004), and still has not gained signifigant favor with consumers. Considering it's stable mate is now sporting sheetmtal that is soon to be 17 years old (jan 1991)

 

If Ford does not make signifgant gains a couple years withthe D3's they need to examine the whole program. And make a desicion to all one way or the other either FWD or RWD and quit splitting the full size segment with 2 distinctly different platforms.

Combine the D3's and the Panthers and you are looking at over 15K sales per month in the segment A very very respectable showing. But they have split it between 4 models and 2 platforms.

 

Ford needs to combine the 2 platforms and have one Platfrom that can get the 15 k+ sales all to it's self.

 

The debate of weather it shoud be FWD or RWD is on going and this is not the thread for that discussion.

Matthew

 

To quote Pioneer, "Can I have a copy of your per car profit spreadsheet?"

 

My key point was that Panther retail sales are around what? 20,000 a year? Tops? If Ford wants to use the plant in Canada to churn out $10k profit per fleet vehicle then sure, but somehow I doubt any fleet would buys cars knowing they are priced $10k OVER COST. This number makes no sense. For you to site it like it's fact, the fleets would have to use it to leverage better pricing. Official Ford proof of said $10k per car profit or GTFO.

[Hemiman]

To quote Pioneer, "Can I have a copy of your per car profit spreadsheet?"

 

My key point was that Panther retail sales are around what? 20,000 a year? Tops? If Ford wants to use the plant in Canada to churn out $10k profit per fleet vehicle then sure, but somehow I doubt any fleet would buys cars knowing they are priced $10k OVER COST. This number makes no sense. For you to site it like it's fact, the fleets would have to use it to leverage better pricing. Official Ford proof of said $10k per car profit or GTFO.

 

 

The new BON authority has spoken.

[jpd80]

No Ford insider is prepared to risk gaol (jail) and serious fines to table stolen workplace documents

on BON, so we never see any definitive proof either way.

 

Under those circumstances, I think it's only fair to accept insider info on this matter

and have corroboration from at least one insider but preferably more if possible.

 

I too find $10,000 profit/car a little hard to believe but I think it was confirmed by Blue II

so I will continue to accept Matthew's assertion.

Edited November 3, 2007 by jpd80

[LincolnFan]

I too find $10,000 profit/car a little hard to believe but I think it was confirmed by Blue II

so I will continue to accept Matthew's assertion.

 

Looking at this logically, the Vic doesn't have any engineering/tooling costs anymore. Everything has been paid for. It only costs Ford to make the vehicle, Blue II mentioned before that the sole reason the Vic has survived the many attempts to cancel it was the big cash bags it made per transaction.

[mustang_sallad]

I'm pretty sure we have a consensus on this board that Ford's future depends on new car sales.

 

No, but I can object to the panther mafia being retarded.

 

I don't.

 

You've been here all of two months and you've made 700 posts? And so far the only ones i've read are raggin' on people for buying used cars, get a life dude!

[Pioneer]

Looking at this logically, the Vic doesn't have any engineering/tooling costs anymore. Everything has been paid for.

 

You think once something is set up, it runs forever without replacement parts or engineering changes?

 

You people really have no idea how industrial plants operate.

[LincolnFan]

You think once something is set up, it runs forever without replacement parts or engineering changes?

 

You people really have no idea how industrial plants operate.

 

That was deduction based on little information. I don't work or know anyone who works ar a plant/factory.

[jpd80]

You think once something is set up, it runs forever without replacement parts or engineering changes?

 

You people really have no idea how industrial plants operate.

Wasn't there $300 million spent on the pantheres a few years ago?

If 300,000 panthers have been built since then, those upgrades amortise to $1,000/car.

[jasonj80]

Wasn't there $300 million spent on the pantheres a few years ago?

If 300,000 panthers have been built since then, those upgrades amortise to $1,000/car.

 

 

Also look at currency, with the dollar worth crap, those cars assembled in Canada and sold in the US are not as profitable they were just two years ago. When 1 USD would get you 1.55CND for one USD it makes those cars sold here much more profitable, and I could see them generating $10,000 profit per car, with the dollar worth .95 of the CND dollar now it has cut into the profitability of those cars.

[jpd80]

Also look at currency, with the dollar worth crap, those cars assembled in Canada and sold in the US are not as profitable they were just two years ago. When 1 USD would get you 1.55CND for one USD it makes those cars sold here much more profitable, and I could see them generating $10,000 profit per car, with the dollar worth .95 of the CND dollar now it has cut into the profitability of those cars.

The Americans are smart enough to set up the contract to supply vehicles in US Dollars.

Those panthers are still being supplied to the US at the initial USD price tag per car.

When the USD weakens, the American end user does not feel the pinch - the Canadian supplier does.

On currency exchange, STAP has effectively lost 25% of the revenue in CD$ each car brings.

Edited November 4, 2007 by jpd80

[armadamaster]

Problem is Shock the Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit. Hate them all you want they have consistanly been one of Ford's biggest money makers. They have consistanlty out perfermed the D3's profit wise. And have pretty much matched them sales wise.

 

Apparenlty your against Ford making Money.

Who cares if they Old or mostly Fleet as long as the make money build them.

 

If Ford would get thier shit togther and actually do some thing withthe damn cars or the the segment as a whole then maybe they could see some real money. The whole D3 large sedan program has been on the go for almost 4 years now (jan 2004), and still has not gained signifigant favor with consumers. Considering it's stable mate is now sporting sheetmtal that is soon to be 17 years old (jan 1991)

 

If Ford does not make signifgant gains a couple years withthe D3's they need to examine the whole program. And make a desicion to all one way or the other either FWD or RWD and quit splitting the full size segment with 2 distinctly different platforms.

Combine the D3's and the Panthers and you are looking at over 15K sales per month in the segment A very very respectable showing. But they have split it between 4 models and 2 platforms.

 

Ford needs to combine the 2 platforms and have one Platfrom that can get the 15 k+ sales all to it's self.

 

The debate of weather it shoud be FWD or RWD is on going and this is not the thread for that discussion.

Matthew

 

Good post, Matthew.

 

Wasn't there $300 million spent on the pantheres a few years ago?

If 300,000 panthers have been built since then, those upgrades amortise to $1,000/car.

 

Allegedy....guess it costs $300 million these days to slap on a Gillette grille for the Middle east and drop the CV from retail and the website.

 

And as far as the Sable raking in the dough profit-wise versus the Grand Marquis, gimmie a f&*kin break. Add the Sable/Montego fresh conception costs plus it's already had it's first major restyle number in what....three years time versus the 1992 V2.0 Grand Marquis? There's where your $300 mil probably disappeared to. Yeah...Sable is raking in the coin, let me tell yeah.....

[jpd80]

OK, I just did some calculations regarding Annual Revenue of panthers verses Assumed profit of $10,000/car.

 

Approximate Annual Revenue:

Crown Victoria: 60,000 @ $25,000/car = $1.5 Billion

Grand Marquis: 60,000 @ $25,000/car = $1.5 Billion

Lincoln Town Car: 40,000 @ $45,000/car = $1.8 Billion

 

Estimated Total Revenue: $4.8 Billion

 

Assumed Profit Per Car:

160,000 x $10,000 = $1.6 Billion

 

If any of this is true, maybe Ford should shut down all other car lines and concentrate on making money out of STAP.(Sarcasm)

 

If Ford could get 33% return on products it sold, their shares would be astronomical!!

[ShockFX]

You've been here all of two months and you've made 700 posts? And so far the only ones i've read are raggin' on people for buying used cars, get a life dude!

 

I made one, maybe two posts about people buying used cars. I'm also pretty sure both were at the fact that people that only buy used panthers aren't exactly the best people to gather future product advice from.

[630land]

"Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit"

 

Is there solid proof of this claim? People make claims on personal bias, so show your work. With Grand Marq barely selling for huge discounts off MSRP, like 18K at dealers, how can one claim there is 10K profit? Sure some tooling is paid off, but the workers are not getting minimum wage.

[FordBuyer]

"Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit"

 

Is there solid proof of this claim? People make claims on personal bias, so show your work. With Grand Marq barely selling for huge discounts off MSRP, like 18K at dealers, how can one claim there is 10K profit? Sure some tooling is paid off, but the workers are not getting minimum wage.

 

How does just about every thread turn into a Panther thread? Btw, Ford sales were down 13% for this October if you factor in the extra selling day this October over last October. Double digit sales loss again.

[Pioneer]

"Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit"

 

Is there solid proof of this claim?

 

No, and anybody that says they have it is lying.

[matthewq4b]

"Panthers generate upwards and over 10K profit per unit"

 

Is there solid proof of this claim? People make claims on personal bias, so show your work. With Grand Marq barely selling for huge discounts off MSRP, like 18K at dealers, how can one claim there is 10K profit? Sure some tooling is paid off, but the workers are not getting minimum wage.

 

 

The 10 to 14K claim has been made by myself and several others in the know, some who have seen the documents stating such who work at STAP and said as much on this board.

 

That is 10K average. Profits on some units are lower And some higher. The merging of the TC in to STAP is a big cut in costs. And The TC genrates obscene profits as they cost just marginally more to make then the bread an butter GM and CV. I have heard the profts on the TC could be as high as 20K per unit. Basically the only expence for the units is the actual cost of the material in the vehicles. No R&D no advertizing budget to speak of and little to no engineering is done on the them. And yes the price of parts and what not supplied by out side suppliers is negotiated in U.S dollars so that cost dose not change wtih dollar fluctuations. The thing that will cut in to the profit margin is wages and basic over head Electricity Ect.

 

As for the sales in Canada a Base GM retails here for $44K CND the TC $60K CND Our dollar is going to have to climb way high befor the profit margin between U.S sold and Can Sold cars is even close. Left alone a lower profit margin for CND sold cars.

 

 

 

Matthew