mlhm5 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) Ford has gone on record "no diesel cars". That means no 3L diesels for the F150 also. Wonder if at $4 a gallon to Ford might bring some of those diesels into the USA or will they continue not to have a dog in that fight. Toyota and Honda both will have diesels in 2010 or before and Bosch is projecting that by the middle of the next decade, diesels will comprise fifteen percent of the U.S. market. Edited November 13, 2007 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 At $4.00 a gallon you're just flat going to see a lot less cars on the road period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 When did Toyota ever say they were bringing a diesel car to the U.S. market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Ford has gone on record "no diesel cars". That means no 3L diesels for the F150 also. The F150 diesel is coming and its 4.4 L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Diesels aren't what they used to be. Just look at the 2008 SD's. They are getting pathetic fuel mileage and I see no different with the F-150 or any diesel car that has a DPF (diesel particulate filter). You need to regen the DPF and that is currently with diesel fuel. Plus diesel fuel in my area is $0.30 higher than PREMIUM gas. Why pay more than premium fuel and get about the same mileage as a gasser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I predict more popularity with the four cylinder Fusion or people mainly just keeping what they have and staying at home more. I'll tell you one thing...get on I-95 and you'll see a lot of folks throwing away their money. Most will speed through NC doing at least 10-15 mph over; some even higher. Then they'll gripe because of their cars and trucks consuming gas excessively. I must admit that I'm a bit of a lead-foot, but usually when gas gets to about 2.90/gal, I start slowing down more. Right now, around here its 3.05 for regular and I just drive no more than 5-8 mph over almost all the time. Yesterday, I drove a 150 mile trip in the Vic, that involved about 130 miles on the interstate. On the first leg, I ran 71 mph. On the return trip I did about 76 mph trying to make it home before dark. The rest was a mixture of speeds between 35-55 mph with a few starts and stops. I managed 24 mpg and used about 1/3 of a tank or about 6 gallons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 When did Toyota ever say they were bringing a diesel car to the U.S. market? Toyota has not tipped their hand as to the date when they will be bringing the clean power diesels into the USA, however with Bosh forecasting 15% of the market will be diesels in 10 years, Toyota is not one to sit on the sidelines and let Honda take business away from them. Do you believe what Toyota says? If so I have a bridge to sell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Do you believe what Toyota says? If so I have a bridge to sell you. So I am to believe your flat assertion that contrary to all published reports, Toyota will have a diesel passenger car on the market at exactly the same time as Honda? In exactly TWO model years? Why should I believe you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 So I am to believe your flat assertion that contrary to all published reports, Toyota will have a diesel passenger car on the market at exactly the same time as Honda? In exactly TWO model years? Why should I believe you? He owns a bridge, why wouldn't you believe him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let's see now..in Metro Detroit diesel fuel is running $3.69 a gallon. Now that really makes me want to spend extra money on a diesel . Plus they are still noisy. I keep hearing how quiet the new ones are, and that is BS. I heard a brand new Jetta with TDI other day and it was noisy and you could tell it was a diesel long before looking for logo. Noisy and $3.69/gallon...such a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Let's see now..in Metro Detroit diesel fuel is running $3.69 a gallon. Now that really makes me want to spend extra money on a diesel . Plus they are still noisy. I keep hearing how quiet the new ones are, and that is BS. I heard a brand new Jetta with TDI other day and it was noisy and you could tell it was a diesel long before looking for logo. Noisy and $3.69/gallon...such a deal. I know they have gotten quieter, but your right, you can still hear that its a diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The topic is Ford, not Toyota RJ. When we see 50mpg diesels on the road in a few years I wonder what the doubters will say? And diesel fuel is usually cheaper or the same as gas out here where gas prices are shooting up to 4 bucks a gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Wonder if at $4 a gallon to Ford might bring some of those diesel (cars) into the USA or will they continue not to have a dog in that fight. Not before 2011MY ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The only way that you will see a 50 mpg diesel car from Ford is if it is smaller and lighter than a Focus with an engine of no more than 95 hp. Diesel fuel is not some magic potion that insures fantastic mileage. A significant amount of the better mileage seen in diesel vehicles is due to the higher energy content of the fuel. And with the prices we are seeing for diesel now, the price in cents per BTU for diesel and gasoline are closer to each other. Diesel is only a part of the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Plus diesel fuel in my area is $0.30 higher than PREMIUM gas. Why pay more than premium fuel and get about the same mileage as a gasser? +1 in NJ. Diesel is sssoooo much more economical. :blah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) So I am to believe your flat assertion that contrary to all published reports, Toyota will have a diesel passenger car on the market at exactly the same time as Honda? In exactly TWO model years? Why should I believe you? The only reason Toyota don't do small Diesels in the States is it would kill Prius sales completely off overnight. its Yaris Diesel returned 67 MPG back in 2002, its price is well under half that of a Prius, when Jeremy Clarkson road tested a Prius he struggled to get 45 MPG from it, plus you have buy new batteries for the Prius after 5 years and they isn’t cheap Richard. 2002 Reports on diesel Yaris 67 MPG http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 Jeremy Clarksons report on 45 MPG Prious Edited November 13, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 plus you have buy new batteries for the Prius after 5 years That part of the anti-hybrid argument has been debunked about 1000 times over by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A significant amount of the better mileage seen in diesel vehicles is due to the higher energy content of the fuel. Along with very high compression, very lean mid range operation, some exhaust energy recovery on turbocharged apps. DGI can close some of the gap between diesel and spark ignition efficiency, but it'll never match it. As fuel prises go up, you'll see more diesels on US roads, just like the rest of the world, (where fuel costs have created a demand for high efficiency). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) Toyota has not tipped their hand as to the date when they will be bringing the clean power diesels into the USA, however with Bosh forecasting 15% of the market will be diesels in 10 years, Toyota is not one to sit on the sidelines and let Honda take business away from them. Do you believe what Toyota says? If so I have a bridge to sell you. Simple, not including Toyota, all the Japanese and all the German manufacurers will produce Diesel Cars for sale in the U.S.A., and since Toyota has taken the #1 spot, they are not about to give it up. If Bosh is correct and 15% of all cars sold in the USA will be diesels in 10 years, not having a dog in that fight would dethrone Toyota. Toyota will have a dog in that fight and the price of oil is the determining factor on introduction date. Edited November 13, 2007 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 That part of the anti-hybrid argument has been debunked about 1000 times over by now. Toyota's Yaris diesel costs $2000 more to buy than the gasoline version, but most folk don't buy diesels just because it 30% more fuel efficient than gasoline equivalent, the main they buy diesels reason is the diesel engine will last much longer than a gasoline engine. I know some body that has had a small lightweight Peugeot 205 diesel that’s got 359,000 mile on the clock and he has never touched the engine, apart from oil, filters, getting injectors cleaned, cam belt and few glow plug changes. So the diesel engine has much better longevity than a gasoline engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Toyota's Yaris diesel costs $2000 more to buy than the gasoline version, but most folk don't buy diesels just because it 30% more fuel efficient than gasoline equivalent, the main they buy diesels reason is the diesel engine will last much longer than a gasoline engine. I know some body that has had a small lightweight Peugeot 205 diesel that's got 359,000 mile on the clock and he has never touched the engine, apart from oil, filters, getting injectors cleaned, cam belt and few glow plug changes. So the diesel engine has much better longevity than a gasoline engine. Good change of subject...but there are hybrids running around now with 200,000 miles on them on the original batteries. They are obviously not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'd like to see a Ford diesel, there is no doubt about that........but there is a reason why Honda has went that route. The failure and lack of success with their own hybrid program. Lagging behind Toyota and Ford with a full hybrid, producing a hybrid vehicle with very little utility and finally the Accord (need I ramble on about that one). So before everyone starts their war cry about how Ford sucks, lets see how the company works their hybrid angle first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 In the end, Ford won't do a diesel car in the US until they have perfected a urea free clean diesel for the market, then, they'll take a look at the market and decide if its worth while. Ford the global company has several small, very fuel efficient diesels in its stable. They just see no need to bring them to the US yet. There's no compelling reason to do so. Gasoline here is still averaging 10-20% less in price than diesel fuel on a national basis (with variations among the regions). Clean diesel cars are unlikely to return more than a 20-25% mpg gain over a similarly speced gasoline engine (turbo, dgi, sized right, dual VCT, etc) under ideal conditions, and perhaps less on regular conditions. Judging by the price differential at the pump, that means that the effective benifit to the average consumer will be near a 5 to 8% reduction in fuel costs over the first five years of the vehicles life. Said diesel vehicle will likely cost a couple thousand dollars more than the gasoline equivalent, thus making the net effect a wash or a loss financially over those five years. So, it may be vogue to get diesels by then, but, the majority of consumers will likely consider diesels to be even less desirable than hybrids, which will have been on the market about a decade at that point (Honda Insight), be on their second or third generations by then and will likely, for the same price, get better gas mileage than the diesels. And, though you must replace the battery pack once every 7-10 years in a Hybrid, the average consumer will have discarded the vehicle long before that time. And, heaven forbid that your diesel engine takes a dump, because it's going to be very expensive to have fixed as well, likely more so than the hybrid batteries. I also expect that, as hybrid battery production picks up, their replacement price will come down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If diesels get popular, and don't cost too much of a premium over a gasoline version, they may command a big premium as used cars, and then be a smart purchase. Kinda like the Prius. I know people with a Prius who didn't buy it for it's economy, but for it's high resale value. There is more to a car cost than just fuel and original cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 So I'm a bit confused. Is this the same diesel debate thread we had last month (and the month before that) or is this a new one for November? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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