Dodge Gaining Traction Among Police Cars

[FordBuyer]

AP

Dodge Gain Traction Among Police Cars

Friday November 23, 12:53 pm ET

By Jeff Karoub, AP Business Writer

Dodge Charger Challenging Ford, Chevy for Police Sales

 

 

DETROIT (AP) -- The police car you see on the roadside -- or in your rearview mirror, if luck's not on your side -- might not look like you expected.

The sporty upstart Dodge Charger is aiming to challenge the Ford Crown Victoria as chief of police cars. Chrysler LLC's full-sized model that debuted in 2006 is no immediate threat to the Crown Vic or Chevrolet Impala, the market's other major player, but the Charger is gaining momentum in a market that sells 75,000 vehicles a year as national tests cite its speed and handling.

 

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"We've been steadily gaining market share and acceptance for the police vehicle since its inception," said Chrysler LLC spokeswoman Shawn Morgan. "We see that trend continuing."

 

It's a small dent in the automotive industry, which expects to sell about 16 million cars this year. But it's an important niche for automakers because it gives them a chance to put their products to the test when life -- or at least the law -- is on the line.

 

"That vehicle has to accommodate a bunch of requirements -- it's an officer's first-aid station, comfort area for accident victims, command post for a crime scene. Next thing you know it's involved in a high-speed run, responding to a heart attack, chasing a criminal," said Lt. David Halliday, who leads the Michigan State Police's annual police vehicle tests that serve as a national standard for law enforcement.

 

"We really ask (the automakers) to do an enduring duty for the public that's often underestimated," he said.

 

Automakers don't break out data for sales to law enforcement agencies, but overall sales for the full-sized Charger were 97,833, up 1.5 percent for the first 10 months of 2007 compared with last year. The Crown Victoria's sales were 51,286, down 7.2 percent during the same period. The Impala's total sales through October were 270,504, up 12.6 percent, according to Autodata Corp.

 

John Felice, Ford Motor Co.'s director of North American fleet operations, said the decline is due to a drop in retail sales, which accounts for a small percentage of the Crown Victoria's sales. He said Ford forecasts flat sales this year for police cars and controls about 80 percent of the market.

 

The latest round of police vehicle tests on 2008 models found the Charger with the 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine had the fastest acceleration, highest top speed and among the shortest braking distances.

 

"Law enforcement has always liked good performance in a vehicle," Halliday said. "For example, the (5.7-liter) Charger has a top speed of (nearly) 150 mph. If you're in the market for a vehicle that has that kind of performance, that kind of vehicle will fit the bill."

 

Halliday said his testing team doesn't assign scores to the vehicles or declare winners. It assesses what each vehicle offers and how it can be applied to a department's mission. The tests also include road racing course times on a two-mile course. The winners: the V-8 versions of the Dodge Charger and Magnum wagon.

 

Halliday said the Charger also has an advanced stability-control system, which senses when a driver may lose control of the vehicle and automatically applies brakes to individual wheels to help keep it stable and avoid a rollover. He said his team is working with the other automakers on developing such systems for their police vehicles.

 

Likewise, many agencies opt for the Impala because it has front-wheel drive, which offers additional traction control in slippery conditions, he said.

 

Halliday believes the Charger might be garnering attention because it offers a new option in the market, long dominated by Ford and General Motors Corp.'s Chevy division.

 

Chrysler returned to the police car market in 2000 after a 14-year absence, but received what Halliday called a "lukewarm response from law enforcement" to its Dodge Intrepid. The Charger has been much better received, he said.

 

A state police spokeswoman says the department currently has about 670 Crown Victorias and 10 Chargers.

 

Ford's Felice said the Dearborn, Mich., automaker keeps a close eye on competitors but also works closely with law enforcement and is confident it's continuing its 50-year tradition of making safe, affordable, roomy and reliable vehicles for law enforcement.

 

"Really when you look at the overall police market. It's really ... not an individual attribute," Felice said. "It's who brings the product to the marketplace that meets the collective needs of this customer, the police officer."

 

Despite the new cars entering the police segment, Ford remains the dominant player, Felice said.

 

Gene Taylor, the police chief in the Detroit suburb of Belleville, said his small department has used Ford vehicles for several years, but bought a Charger a year ago and plans to buy another. He said his department, which has five cruisers, sought another option after having major problems with several Crown Victorias and came across the relaunched Charger.

 

Taylor, who describes himself as "an old Dodge boy," initially thought Chrysler was using an old nameplate to promote a new product. But he tested all three automakers' offerings at a Chrysler event and came away impressed with the Charger's handling and performance.

 

"It's lived up to the hype so far," he said.

 

Halliday says all three automakers are making vehicles that stand up to the rigors of law enforcement.

 

"Competition is good for law enforcement," he said. "It strengthens the industry in making the vehicles capable across the board for a variety of missions."

[retro-man]

Unmarked Magnums beginning to appear in this area.

[P71_CrownVic]

Ford just came out and said that sales to police agencies were up so far this year.

[FordBuyer]

Unmarked Magnums beginning to appear in this area.

 

Not for long. Most of the Chargers around here are unmarked and do interceptor work like running down speeders and give them big tickets. Everyday police work is done in Crown Vic still.

[Anthony]

Lots of marked NYPD Charger units in Queens/Brooklyn. I've seen a lot of them..

[taxman100]

The agencies around here that bought Chargers in 2006 bought Crown Vics in 2007.

 

I predict Ford will give up the market - doesn't fit in with their image of being vehicles for the "clean hands' magazines.

[P71_CrownVic]

The agencies around here that bought Chargers in 2006 bought Crown Vics in 2007.

 

I predict Ford will give up the market - doesn't fit in with their image of being vehicles for the "clean hands' magazines.

 

It would be just like Ford to give up a market that they pretty much own.

[suv_guy_19]

:poke: :happy feet:

[Furious1Auto]

It would be just like Ford to give up a market that they pretty much own.

Ford does need something more aggressive than the Vic, but I laughed when I read that the Impala was a threat. Yeh let's trade a RWD V-8 for a FWD V-6 Some of the local dept. around my city have taken on a couple trial Chargers because the patrolmen are pushing for them, them the OIC's (officers in Charge) are finding them impractical for city work! The back seat is too small in interior volume even before the cages are added! Ford better capitalize on this before Dodge fixes the problem! They may use them for traffic but it won't be mainstream, hell Indiana State Highway patrol has been using a Chevrolet Silverado SS454 and a Camaro in traffic duty for years! There a reason that they don't haul prisoners in them! I thought that the Interceptor concept was cool!

Edited November 24, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[rmc523]

Lots of marked NYPD Charger units in Queens/Brooklyn. I've seen a lot of them..

 

BSO in South Florida has several Chargers running around. I believe the Ft. Lauderdale Police Department has several undercover 300s as well, my neighbor drives one.

[P71_CrownVic]

:poke: :happy feet:

 

I ask the same question of you:

You name one of Ford's vehicles sold today that will take the same abuse and punishment of everyday police work, then go on to do another 150-250K as a taxi with very minimal maintenance?

 

Stop thinking, (look who I'm talking to...) because there isn't one.

 

 

Yeh let's trade a RWD V-8 for a FWD V-6

 

According to people here it's working for Lincoln.

Edited November 24, 2007 by P71_CrownVic

[Traveler]

The Dodge is still a compromise for law enforcement and probably not easily rectified. I thought all along they should've used the 300 body with Dodge Magnum front end and made a police-specific model.

 

Personally, I think the Crown Vic still has good power and handling, mixed in with more room and comfort to keep it on top...along with a very long and trusted track record. I suspect that a dip would be expected just by the introduction of another viable police car offered. On top of that, they are overbuilt to handle a variety of events. Just in the past couple of days, a NC State Trooper flipped his Crown Vic while responding to a call. The images showed the car sitting on its roof and the roof did not buckled at all. For the police market, I doubt Ford will have that much to worry about for a little while longer. No other police car is built like it.

 

Now from a sales threat, the Tahoe could possibly give the Vic a run for the money. However, say what you will, they are still more top heavy and will still get less gas mileage than a Vic. The Vic isn't on its way out of police work. Police just have an extra vehicle to rotate through now. I don't see many law agencies buy Crown Victorias exclusively year in and year out.

[RangerM]

The agencies around here that bought Chargers in 2006 bought Crown Vics in 2007.

 

I predict Ford will give up the market - doesn't fit in with their image of being vehicles for the "clean hands' magazines.

 

I recall an article (can't remember the source) that indicated Dodge was selling them cheaper than the Crown Vics. I think they used the phrase "fire-sale price".

[mrjones944]

The department I work for just got their first of a few chargers. They are exceptional police cars as long as the cop isnt too fat as the space between the door and the center console/seatbelt buckle seems to shirnk when a duty belt is on. Visibility is another area that the crown vic has on it. Handling, acceleration, and seat comfort were all far beyond what the crown vic can offer. The weak link for the charger seems to be the brakes from what i have been hearing but I assume thats because a lot of the guys are going a little faster than usual to try out the car and because it is easier to do so. Cost wise vehicle guru at the department said they were about $1000 more than a crown vic.

 

Seems like somebody mentioned rear seat room. Believe it or now the rear seat room in the charger is actually better than in the crown vic. Its the getting in/out that isnt quite as easy...I can live with that.

[retro-man]

The Dodge is still a compromise for law enforcement and probably not easily rectified. I thought all along they should've used the 300 body with Dodge Magnum front end and made a police-specific model.

 

Personally, I think the Crown Vic still has good power and handling, mixed in with more room and comfort to keep it on top...along with a very long and trusted track record. I suspect that a dip would be expected just by the introduction of another viable police car offered. On top of that, they are overbuilt to handle a variety of events. Just in the past couple of days, a NC State Trooper flipped his Crown Vic while responding to a call. The images showed the car sitting on its roof and the roof did not buckled at all. For the police market, I doubt Ford will have that much to worry about for a little while longer. No other police car is built like it.

 

Now from a sales threat, the Tahoe could possibly give the Vic a run for the money. However, say what you will, they are still more top heavy and will still get less gas mileage than a Vic. The Vic isn't on its way out of police work. Police just have an extra vehicle to rotate through now. I don't see many law agencies buy Crown Victorias exclusively year in and year out.

True enough. The Crown Vic is a good car - no, a great car. But Ford is playing a serious game of chicken with obsolescence. And this important market for them is what's at stake. Seems like they'd better get off their asses if they want to keep it for much longer. The Crown Vic is now the Checker Marathon of fleet cars.

[jam116]

I hope you are not right on this one.

I spent many a day and night in a Crown Vic...That car saved my life in two different cases.

Once it took several slugs from a shotgun with me behind the fender as a shooter was trying to pick me off....

His Jeep did not protect him as well when I threw three rounds from my Mossberg into it.....

 

I rolled a Vic three times in a chase and walked away with a few scratched and bruises....

You talk with a line officer and he will tell you by far the Crown Vic is the car of choice....Besides if a

citizen sees the Police utilizing Crown Vic's they will know that this car offers dependability and safety.....

 

I retired several years ago, some of my friends (still in the business) have been issues the Dodges...They do not like them...Say the

car does not fee; as stable and has allot of body roll...Visibility is not as good.....

 

I remember when the NC Highway Patrol went with the Dodges in the old days of the 440's they would order a extra transmission for every car....Say's allot about dependability of the tranmissions back then...(early 70's)

[danglin]

Indiana State Highway patrol has been using a Chevrolet Silverado SS454 and a Camaro in traffic duty for years!

 

Correction Furious1, we are a State Police, not only a Highway Patrol. I do not recall the Silverado SS454, but we have used a State Highway Dept. disguised F150 in construction zones. We did use Camaros, but that ended about 5 years ago. Our Department did just order 20 Mustangs though!!! They will be unmarked like the camaros, used for special traffic enforcement. They will be in service early next year.

 

The department continues to order Police Interceptors, they refuse to purchase a Unibody vehicle for regular patrol duty. I suppose they will be forced to change when Ford drops the Police Interceptor. :reading:

[Furious1Auto]

Correction Furious1, we are a State Police, not only a Highway Patrol. I do not recall the Silverado SS454, but we have used a State Highway Dept. disguised F150 in construction zones. We did use Camaros, but that ended about 5 years ago. Our Department did just order 20 Mustangs though!!! They will be unmarked like the camaros, used for special traffic enforcement. They will be in service early next year.

 

The department continues to order Police Interceptors, they refuse to purchase a Unibody vehicle for regular patrol duty. I suppose they will be forced to change when Ford drops the Police Interceptor. :reading:

Maybe it was the city kitties under cover traffic car, but I use to haul freight from cleveland to Chicago via Rt. 20. I saw that white SS454 with his reds and blues going on traffic stops quite frequently east of New Carlisle, Indiana!

[jonas1022]

Local PD used CVs painted white with blue stripes for years. Last year they ordered black and white Chargers to large fanfare. This year they got Magnums as the Charger wasn't big enough to carry all the Patrolman's equipment. But that windowed backend isn't secure. And finally, the last officer that I talked to said that they were keeping and painting all the old CVs in Black and White so that the old CVs would match the new CVs coming in next year, and they were ditching the Dodges. Too small inside the Dodge, it seems.

[rmc523]

Local PD used CVs painted white with blue stripes for years. Last year they ordered black and white Chargers to large fanfare. This year they got Magnums as the Charger wasn't big enough to carry all the Patrolman's equipment. But that windowed backend isn't secure. And finally, the last officer that I talked to said that they were keeping and painting all the old CVs in Black and White so that the old CVs would match the new CVs coming in next year, and they were ditching the Dodges. Too small inside the Dodge, it seems.

A relative of mine is a police officer, he says the CVs are the best cop cars there are. He says the same thing about the Impalas too small inside for him. I think he said/ his department has gotten some Chargers as well. He drives an Impala to his dismay. He uses another (older, high mileage) CV when he needs to do anything instead of using his (new 05) Impala b/c he likes the CVs so much better.

[Traveler]

Speaking of rolling a Crown Vic, a NC State Trooper did just that a few night ago. He was responding to a call of a high speed pursuit on the other side of Wake County. At some point, he lost control and flipped the car. I was astonished at the images I saw. The car looked as though it had been placed on its roof. There was no sign of any crushing of the roof at all. It looked as if he could have gotten some help turning the car upright, he could have kept right on driving it. The roofs of these cars must be overbuilt if they can withstand a rollover of a two ton sedan.

 

Also, I'm not sure about the acceleration and handling superiority of the Charger over the Crown Vic...especially the late model Vics. Granted the Hemi engine propels it ahead of the Vic in acceleration, but many departments are going with the V6 and the Michigan State Patrol verified that the Charger was actually a few ticks behind the Crown Vic on the road course. The Charger required the larger V8 engine to best the Vic on the road course. That is at least by their independent testing.

[pkoko]

I test drove a Dodge Charger R/T. I remeber that it had very good acceleration better than the Fusion V6 (221 HP/ 3.0L Duratec) I drove just before, but it sucked completely in everything else like handling, comfort (even rear room), and braking. Did I mention I could not see a thing in the back window I am not going to even mention the interior, but it is probably better designed than the CVs. I would not feel comfortable with a high speed chase driving the charger. It handles like a boat & a pickup together. It has a lot of Body roll for a performance model. Its rear end is also very very unstable. It is very easy to spin out of control with it.

 

I have never drove the CVs; so I can't compare their handling issue. But those chargers are straight line dragsters not sport sedans.

[suv_guy_19]

I test drove a Dodge Charger R/T. I remeber that it had very good acceleration better than the Fusion V6 (221 HP/ 3.0L Duratec) I drove just before, but it sucked completely in everything else like handling, comfort (even rear room), and braking. Did I mention I could not see a thing in the back window I am not going to even mention the interior, but it is probably better designed than the CVs. I would not feel comfortable with a high speed chase driving the charger. It handles like a boat & a pickup together. It has a lot of Body roll for a performance model. Its rear end is also very very unstable. It is very easy to spin out of control with it.

 

I have never drove the CVs; so I can't compare their handling issue. But those chargers are straight line dragsters not sport sedans.

 

 

I really have a hard time believing, and also with knowledge from personal experience, that the Charger was a poor handler. I have driven our magnum up to 185 kph and it was just fine.

Edited November 26, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[Michael Reynolds]

I often here the same thing about the Chargers. Great power and handling, but when it comes down to lugging stuff around in a vehicle equipped with a big cage it doesn't compare to the Vic. The friends that I have that work for Broward Co, FLPD and FHP seem to be all in agreement.

 

I have noticed that Orange Co and Broward Co have a decent amount of Chargers.

[pkoko]

I really have a hard time believing, and also with knowledge from personal experience, that the Charger was a poor handler. I have driven our magnum up to 185 kph and it was just fine.

 

I was comparing it to the Fusion SEL v6 in terms of handling. The Chargers felt big and not happy in turns. It had a lot of Body roll IIRC. What killed the fun factor for me is that the rear end has little to no weight on it. The rear wheels easily lose traction under acceleration while turning. The charger may have better skid #s but driving it is not fun and doesn't impose confidence like the fusion. At least for me.