Ford to shutter Ontario plant sometime in 2010

[armadamaster]

 

Heh-heh....

 

[armadamaster]

Because they are more or less using the same shit on the car that was developed over 10 years ago and the tooling costs have been long paid for. The Panther has no future since its sales can't be improved upon because its limited in its appeal (Fleet) and the costs that would take to make it appealing tot he retail market, then add in the competition in the future from the LX and GM RWD large sedans that are coming, and it has no hope of even keeping its current sales levels to those markets.

 

But it's cheaper to rob a Volvo platform (D3s) and design a whole new car around it that is a flop? Investment in the Panthers would have already yielded profit or worst case maintained sales numbers versus allowing them to slip what they have now.

 

Your starting to sound like Henry Ford himself when it came to the Model T and he was forced to Make the Model A....

 

:do what:

Edited December 13, 2007 by Armada Master

[Traveler]

I've said it before...I've been a long time Mustang owner with all of them being V8. Two of them were SVT Cobras. At least to me, its hard to NOT draw a comparison between the Mustang and the Panther platform for they both have long since shared common drivetrains and powertrains up until 2005. I'm 35 and was reluctant to buy a Crown Vic, but here is the simple truth. In 2005, the Crown Vic HPP was the only enthusiastic Ford brand sedan worth owning.

 

I grew up in a time where American meant long hoods, rear-wheel drive and V8 engines. I've migrated from different vehicles and I'm here to tell you that the Crown Vic HPP is no slouch and not a '79 LTD by no stretch of the imagination. While it certainly isn't a 2001 Cobra, the Crown Vic has legs to accelerate briskly and can hold a turn amazingly well. Go over and get a Falcon or redevelop a Mustang chassis for a RWD replacement, because I know performance pretty well and V6s, FWD and sharp dropping hoods with a greenhouse the size of a...well, greenhouse isn't going to impress me nor do I think many LEOs will be impressed. What Ford will do is kiss their police business goodbye to Chevy or Dodge only to decide later to re-enter and have to fight and claw their way back to dominance...which may never happen. Ford should capitalize on what they have now.

 

Today, you have lots of folks here and elsewhere putting down the Panthers, but I don't see that many Fusions or Five-Hundreds/Tauruses in sigs on here. If you support your opinions that Ford don't need a V8 RWD sedan, then you should be supporting Ford with your money and buying the cars that you place on the pedestal. Ford needs customer support, don't they? I've put my money where my mouth is and having owned a number of Fords (performance Fords at that) I feel confident in both my decision and my opinion.

[taxman100]

The Panther will die as it won't meet future Crash/Regulatory standards without some major reworking, from new interior panels, new doors, updated roof structure to allow curtain airbags and maintain crash distances, new braking and engine control system to allow for stability control new emissions, etc, on top it hurts CAFE numbers and modern drivetrain won't fit in to it. So milk it as long as you can, and when the time comes, flip the switch and walk away.

 

You make some very valid, important points in your post. The rules for automobiles are changing, unfortunately, in my opinion, for the worse. All these regulations are just going to limit consumer choice, and make every vehicle sold more and more alike, as well as more and more expensive.

 

With Ford being in the very poor condition that it is in, they are looking to cut corners anywhere they can. So naturally they will try to take something built overseas and convert it on the cheap for North American sales.

 

I'll get one more Panther, enjoy the comfort, space, durability, and low operating costs, and let everyone else pony up their hard-earned money for the newest Nanny-state designed vehicles.

[J-150]

The Panther will die as it won't meet future Crash/Regulatory standards without some major reworking, from new interior panels, new doors, updated roof structure to allow curtain airbags and maintain crash distances, new braking and engine control system to allow for stability control new emissions, etc, on top it hurts CAFE numbers and modern drivetrain won't fit in to it. So milk it as long as you can, and when the time comes, flip the switch and walk away.

 

 

whick is kind of a joke considering its 5 star without all the add-on crap that doesn't always work in a crash

[J-150]

Well actually, it wasn't just your dollar that fell, our dollar has risen significantly against all currencies. It is slightly down right now, but I think it may be leveling off at a good place.

 

 

powered by demand for oil and precious metals demand in India and China

[jpd80]

whick is kind of a joke considering its 5 star without all the add-on crap that doesn't always work in a crash

Actually for international NCAP testing, cars without curtain airbags are inelligible for

the pole side impact test and cannot receive a 5-star rating.

 

The reasoning is that without curtain airbags, a fatal head strike injury will occur in the pole test.

 

The next Falcon is having it door frames and turret redesigned for curtain airbags

so they can be fitted as standard equipment to achieve 5-star rating across the board.

[silvrsvt]

Today, you have lots of folks here and elsewhere putting down the Panthers, but I don't see that many Fusions or Five-Hundreds/Tauruses in sigs on here. If you support your opinions that Ford don't need a V8 RWD sedan, then you should be supporting Ford with your money and buying the cars that you place on the pedestal. Ford needs customer support, don't they? I've put my money where my mouth is and having owned a number of Fords (performance Fords at that) I feel confident in both my decision and my opinion.

 

 

The problem with your argument is the people who normally buy a Fusion or Taurus/500 DO NOT COME TO AUTOMOTIVE MESSAGE BOARDS! Just look at how "busy" the Fusion or Taurus message boards are on here or how many dedicated message boards there are for them. For the most part, people who buy these cars are looking for "car appliances" that get them to and from where they need to go. Also in the case of Fusion and 500, they've only been on the market for a couple years and few have hit used car market where people are more willing to play around with them then when they are under warranty.

 

In regards to the Panther cars....keep the demographics in mind...the vast majority of the buyers are younger (who are more likely to use the internet) and get them used since they are cheap...then this place has a really bad echo camber in here that boil down to about a very vocal half dozen or so supporters of the car...hardly what I would call a majority or large group of consumers. A half of dozen people who love a car isn't going to turn the ship around on it. The same thing happens with the Focus, its a cheap car that attracts alot of young vocal buyers, but all they do is bitch about how screwed up Ford NA is and when something is offered like the SVT Focus, they automatically discount it and say its too expensive, too slow or insert your favorite excuse here.

 

Finally, as for a RWD Sedan from Ford...I'd love them to do it and I wouldn't mind getting one myself, but in no shape or form would I ever ever consider a Panther. It has ZERO aspirational value to me and rates as about as high as a hyundai or Chevy Aveo for a car I would want to be stuck driving in. I drove a TC a couple years ago and it felt like I was driving my couch the way it drove over things. Thats the big issue with the Panther cars...they have no image and nothing short of getting rid of them is going to fix that.

[Traveler]

Finally, as for a RWD Sedan from Ford...I'd love them to do it and I wouldn't mind getting one myself, but in no shape or form would I ever ever consider a Panther. It has ZERO aspirational value to me and rates as about as high as a hyundai or Chevy Aveo for a car I would want to be stuck driving in. I drove a TC a couple years ago and it felt like I was driving my couch the way it drove over things. Thats the big issue with the Panther cars...they have no image and nothing short of getting rid of them is going to fix that.

 

I'm not really sure how a TC drives. I've drive a few CVs and GMs with various optional equipment. My car is a bit unique. Its the first Panther I've driven with cloth seats, which are more supportive (at least IMO) than the leather. They also don't allow you to slide around like as on the leather. Of course, the downsides of cloth are the cleaning and the static electricity. The HPP suspension is fairly firm. Very similar to the CVPI in terms of ride feel. Doesn't lean much in corners and is pretty firm on the road. Of course, the weight of the car helps disperse any shock from most road imperfections. Honestly, I'd say its firmer than some of the Mustangs I've owned. As for the styling, I'm okay with it. Its a good blend in car, however I could easily understand most buyers wanting something more modern. However, from the driver seat (or passenger seat) looking out, its a really nice car. If it had been the stereotypical old person car that bobs and floats all over the highway with little get up and go, I wouldn't have been able to buy it. What sold me was doing a quick U-turn and flooring it. It stayed composed and moved out pretty good...for a daily driver.

[suv_guy_19]

However, from the driver seat (or passenger seat) looking out, its a really nice car.

 

As long as you don't stop to look at the dash on your way to looking out....

[P71_CrownVic]

As long as you don't stop to look at the dash on your way to looking out....

Thats the case with pretty much any Ford vehicle...not just the Panthers.

[suv_guy_19]

Thats the case with pretty much any Ford vehicle...not just the Panthers.

 

 

Yeah...Fords awful truck interiors :rolleyes:.....the same thing could be said about GM vehicles as well...

[Traveler]

Well, I'm not a dash stroker and FWIW, I think the materials used in the Crown Vic are on par with much of the industry. Textured plastic or smooth hard plastic...take your pick. Manufacturers just divert the eyes away from it with nifty wood and chrome trim to dress it up. Honestly, I was looking closer at the F-150 King Ranch at the local show and noticed that simply focusing on the actual dash material, it wasn't that much to write home about either. When looking at the whole interior, it's dressed up nicely. Very few cars have dash plastics that are that appealing.

 

Now that isn't to say that the Panthers aren't in need of a more modern dash design. However, its build quality is good. In fact, I haven't heard one squeek or rattle out of it. What the cars needed some time ago was a dash that moved the center stack controls closer to the driver and front passenger.

 

 

That's exactly how mine looks and I don't see that much wrong with it. Again, its not the most modern design but its decent looking and functional.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Traveler

[suv_guy_19]

Well, I'm not a dash stroker and FWIW, I think the materials used in the Crown Vic are on par with much of the industry. Textured plastic or smooth hard plastic...take your pick. Manufacturers just divert the eyes away from it with nifty wood and chrome trim to dress it up. Honestly, I was looking closer at the F-150 King Ranch at the local show and noticed that simply focusing on the actual dash material, it wasn't that much to write home about either. When looking at the whole interior, it's dressed up nicely. Very few cars have dash plastics that are that appealing.

 

Now that isn't to say that the Panthers aren't in need of a more modern dash design. However, its build quality is good. In fact, I haven't heard one squeek or rattle out of it. What the cars needed some time ago was a dash that moved the center stack controls closer to the driver and front passenger.

 

 

I have no problem with dash material, I was simply speaking of the look. I am not a dash stroker either, I was just trying to give you a hard time.

[Edstock]

I am not a dash stroker either

 

As a student, you should be, typographically.

 

ALT + 0149 = • Bullet

 

ALT + 0150 = – EN dash

 

ALT + 0151 = — EM dash

 

Learning to call those up as necessary can add a lot of clarity.

 

ALT + 0176 = ° degree sign

 

useful, as is "charmap" from the "run" option, if you're on Windows.

 

• • • • • • • • • • • • • •

[P71_CrownVic]

Yeah...Fords awful truck interiors :rolleyes:.....the same thing could be said about GM vehicles as well...

Exactly. Our new Expedition has a MUCH more hollow sounding dash than our older one. Plus it is made out of plastic so cheap, Fisher Price would be ashamed to use it.

[Moby Vic]

Why does your family keep buying Fords? Seriously.

 

You should buy an Audi truck. They have the best interiors.

[silvrsvt]

Exactly. Our new Expedition has a MUCH more hollow sounding dash than our older one. Plus it is made out of plastic so cheap, Fisher Price would be ashamed to use it.

 

 

And why in praytell do you tap on your dash to see if it sounds hollow or solid?

 

Thats about fucking stupid, then again thats expected out of you...

[Moby Vic]

And why in praytell do you tap on your dash to see if it sounds hollow or solid?

 

Gotta find something to criticize. I don't like that on the new Mustangs, either, but hey, 300 hp for under $30K. I'd rather have them skimp on dash resonance.

[suv_guy_19]

Exactly. Our new Expedition has a MUCH more hollow sounding dash than our older one. Plus it is made out of plastic so cheap, Fisher Price would be ashamed to use it.

 

 

It really doesn't matter what it feels like, just how it looks.

[P71_CrownVic]

Why does your family keep buying Fords? Seriously.

 

You should buy an Audi truck. They have the best interiors.

An Audi would be nice...but I should have stated that this was a FD vehicle.

[P71_CrownVic]

It really doesn't matter what it feels like, just how it looks.

It looks like ass.

 

Boy...the cheerleaders are out in force today.

Edited December 13, 2007 by P71_CrownVic

[suv_guy_19]

It looks like ass.

 

Boy...the cheerleaders are out in force today.

 

 

Ok, I've come to the conclusion that you have no taste. By consensus of almost every living person, Ford has the best truck interiors. Your the weird one :P.

[sparky1520]

Gotta love how a discussion on a Canadian plant closing turns into a conversation on audi,truck interiors, expeditions and ASS.

[P71_CrownVic]

Gotta love how a discussion on a Canadian plant closing turns into a conversation on audi,truck interiors, expeditions and ASS.

It is quiet odd. The cheerleaders turn every other thread into something that revolves around the Panthers, but with this thread...it goes away from the Panthers.