FordBuyer Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 This is so frustrating to watch Ford slowly die. It is very inhumane. I would rather see Ford take some big risks than just keep on slowly bleeding to death with double digit sales declines month after month. Nissan did it a few years ago. They went crazy with new product and reinvented themselves. Ford is just plodding along. Ford should be developing at least three new vehicles and they need to be out in next 24 months. Other than Flex, there is really nothing we know about that has the volume to change this company. Some refreshes that will maintain present sales maybe that are miserable, and one new product that shows promise. Ford needs an onslaught of new product, and needs to show glimpses of it to give us some HOPE. The MKR got a lot of good vibes last year, then Ford just put it out of mind. I know the Verve will be out sometime in 2009, but Ford needs a lot more than an econocar. Ford needs a new Explorer that gets 25% better gas mileage and needs it within 12 months. I sure hope Ford has some bombshells for us soon as hope is dwindling fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagrah01 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 This is so frustrating to watch Ford slowly die. It is very inhumane. I would rather see Ford take some big risks than just keep on slowly bleeding to death with double digit sales declines month after month. Nissan did it a few years ago. They went crazy with new product and reinvented themselves. Ford is just plodding along. Ford should be developing at least three new vehicles and they need to be out in next 24 months. Other than Flex, there is really nothing we know about that has the volume to change this company. Some refreshes that will maintain present sales maybe that are miserable, and one new product that shows promise. Ford needs an onslaught of new product, and needs to show glimpses of it to give us some HOPE. The MKR got a lot of good vibes last year, then Ford just put it out of mind. I know the Verve will be out sometime in 2009, but Ford needs a lot more than an econocar. Ford needs a new Explorer that gets 25% better gas mileage and needs it within 12 months. I sure hope Ford has some bombshells for us soon as hope is dwindling fast. My point exactly. If it can work for Nissan, it can work for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 My point exactly. If it can work for Nissan, it can work for Ford. You get the feeling Ford executives will have 25 meetings to consider building the MKR and then if it gets go ahead you may see it 42 months later. Ford cannot do business like this anymore. It needs to work with real urgency now and take some risks. Educated risks, but risks nonetheless. Anything is better than slow, agonizing death. At least go down with guns blazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb62 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 This is so frustrating to watch Ford slowly die. It is very inhumane. Nothing inhumane about it. Quite frankly, from a shareholder perspective there is nothing wrong with having an exit strategy as your business plan. Companies do it all the time when they expect that they will die due to market conditions. And doing it slowly is certainly better for the workers and suppliers so they can plan for the future (rather than experiencing a shock). While I doubt that Ford is taking this approach it is a classic business strategy that has many management consultants dedicated to helping companies execute such a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 You get the feeling Ford executives will have 25 meetings to consider building the MKR and then if it gets go ahead you may see it 42 months later. Ford cannot do business like this anymore. It needs to work with real urgency now and take some risks. Educated risks, but risks nonetheless. Anything is better than slow, agonizing death. At least go down with guns blazing. 100 meetings and when one person cute 8 year old niece or wife said she didn't like it, they change it. Until you've worked in Ford's management culture you'll never understand why they can't be Nissan. Upper management at Ford has one purpose, to justify their job, they don't do anything and most are not needed but make a lot of money and if they look important e.g. drag feet and make changes, they can keep their job, in which their boss does the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) This is so frustrating to watch Ford slowly die. I can see how it could look like that. Fortunately, Ford is not slowly dying; rather, Ford has been shrinking, and quickly, at that. It has been shrinking because of bad management and bad decisions, some quite recent, and others that were made 10 years ago. It's going to shrink even more in size and market share, because the car market is going to be flat for 24 months as the economy sucks itself into stagflation. That's the bad news. The good news is that starting in about 6 months, there is a continuous stream of new product arriving. In tough markets, new and improved may be crucial. Edited January 4, 2008 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the Flex is the only new product Ford has coming out this year, next year I think it's the Fiesta, not enough imo.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the Flex is the only new product Ford has coming out this year, next year I think it's the Fiesta, not enough imo.. MKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 This is so frustrating to watch Ford slowly die. It is very inhumane. I would rather see Ford take some big risks than just keep on slowly bleeding to death with double digit sales declines month after month. Nissan did it a few years ago. They went crazy with new product and reinvented themselves. Ford is just plodding along. Ford should be developing at least three new vehicles and they need to be out in next 24 months. Other than Flex, there is really nothing we know about that has the volume to change this company. Some refreshes that will maintain present sales maybe that are miserable, and one new product that shows promise. Ford needs an onslaught of new product, and needs to show glimpses of it to give us some HOPE. The MKR got a lot of good vibes last year, then Ford just put it out of mind. I know the Verve will be out sometime in 2009, but Ford needs a lot more than an econocar. Ford needs a new Explorer that gets 25% better gas mileage and needs it within 12 months. I sure hope Ford has some bombshells for us soon as hope is dwindling fast. Two years ago, the old Ford would have done exactly what you wanted, they would have throw heaps of new products at the market hoping for a hit score. They would kept their inefficient and money sapping internal beaurocracy. Without gaining $5 billion/ year in cost savings, North America could not justify new products. Without the last 15 months of painful changes, Ford North America would be in the tubes. We all get impatient but certain things have to happen before new products come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJSteve3 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I must agree that it appears that Ford is slowly dying, sales shrinking 10 percent or so year over year, but there is some validity to the notion that they might be successful in getting to a size where profitability is more important than sales - ala BMW, albeit without the performance cred. Take a look at the "Ford Sales Figures" link on this site for years gone by - it wasn't that long ago they sold incredible numbers of Escort/Focus/Tempo/Taurus/Panther/Explorer/Ranger...... I recall 5 of the top ten in sales for awhile. Since then, victimized by a combination of misjudging the markets (Late with Crossovers, etc), poor engineering/parts decisions (3.8l head gaskets/Focus launch, etc), and brutally tough competition - face it, the Japanese cars are way better than 20 years back - hell, the Koreans were a total joke, but they pulled it together. Back in the day a Renault or Fiat would lick their wounds and go home. Hyundai- I never figured this when they were barely better than a Yugo - is a real player. Enough rambling, point is, Ford automobiles (Pickups are a separate case) are operating in a much tougher market, and as a result, goals are lower. I like the sound of solvency, for the foreseeable future...I hope they pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Pretty obvious by the December sales numbers that there are a lot of 2007s still at the Ford dealers and sitting at the plants. Also, the F-150 took a huge hit in December that Ford will not be able to recover from in 2008. You would think the Ford executives lived on another planet when the obvious answer for the past 5 years or so has been a full sized SUV that got 30+ MPG, gas, diesel or hybrid. Ford does not see it that way, and since auto buyers get to vote whether Ford stays in business with their dollars, not I would not want to be counting the Ford ballots in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Why does everybody see things as getting so much worse? Yeah, sales are down, but other than that things have gotten much better over the last year. Warranty expenses are down, costs savings have been achieved, vehicles are being produced based on demand, incentives are down, and new models are rolling out. There is good leadership at the top making strategic decisions for the long term. Ford does not need a saviour car, they need a solid line up for every day people. The lineup is beginning to shape up and there is more to come. It will take time, and it looks bad right now, but its not as if all is lost. Have faith in the Mulally and the Fields. One other important thing to remember is that Ford is a global company that makes money around the world. They unfortunately also happen to lose money at home. Things will get better in NA. Patience is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Ford has a great model in Mazda. Their sales are up significantly for the year in a down market. They had a slew of new vehicles come out last 18 months or so and a slew of new ones coming out in timely fashion. They are a little company and seem to have the capability to put out a lot of product that is great in droves. In comparison, Ford is moving at a snails pace. Mazda is sprinting forward and Ford is plodding like senior citizen in walker. God, this gets tiresome. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Results are needed, not excuses. I realize Ford has to right size the business and they are, but bring out the new products at the same time. Ford's comeback will be product driven as Edge has shown, not cost cutting driven. Cost cutting may get them to break even point which it has, but only product will get them healthy. I keep hearing to just wait until 2012 and Ford will have great product. Ford will never make it to 2012 limping along like this. I can't take another year of this shit that has gone on in 2007 with sales down 13%. Even crappy Chrysler was able to only lose 3% for year. Ford has fricking over 5,000 dealerships and arguably best dealer network that used to have big time advertising money a few short years ago, and now selling 10,000 of anything in a month is a major feat. Ford dealers seem to spend their time selling used vehicle as new ones are not going out the door, but sitting on lots. More and more every year sitting. Ford used to be able to sell vehicles in awesome numbers, and now only F-150 remains and rest are rather mundane numbers. Nothing even approaching 20,000/month on consistent basis. Toyota sells 30,000 shitty Coroallas/month with 1,000 dealerships and Ford sells 13,000 Focuses with over 5,000 dealers. Ford gives up at least 30,000 Focus sales by ending hatches and wagon. I just knew that was going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the Flex is the only new product Ford has coming out this year, next year I think it's the Fiesta, not enough imo.. Let's see, we have: Flex, MKS, new F-150, new Mustang, MKFlex, Fiesta/Verve, CD3 triplets, new Explorer (CUV), additional B-segment products possibly including new Bronco, new Focus. Those are what I know is coming within the next year or two and I'm no Ford insider, so, for all I know, there could be more products coming. So that's at least 12 new products that we know are coming right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Let's see, we have: Flex, MKS, new F-150, new Mustang, MKFlex, Fiesta/Verve, CD3 triplets, new Explorer (CUV), additional B-segment products possibly including new Bronco, new Focus. Those are what I know is coming within the next year or two and I'm no Ford insider, so, for all I know, there could be more products coming. So that's at least 12 new products that we know are coming right there. I'm talking about ALL-new products like Flex and Fiesta which didn't exist before, not re-freshes which may or may not even break even.. So yea, I forgot about the MKS, so that's maybe 1-2k more sales volume a month, not nearly enough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) I'm talking about ALL-new products like Flex and Fiesta which didn't exist before, not re-freshes which may or may not even break even.. So yea, I forgot about the MKS, so that's maybe 1-2k more sales volume a month, not nearly enough.. Farley said Ford had a strong Edge AD campaign in California it worked really boosting sales. If this is an example of his work, maybe Ford needs to let him go ferral with a big budget. Edited January 4, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There are two many negaturds here, with piss poor a weak $, things sadly are looking more like we are in deep deep shit over this side of the pond with plonker Gordon Browns strong £, Airbus look like it may be selling most of it European sites to a subsidary of Boeing within the next 4 weeks due the fact labour costs are massive in Europe and Airbus will go under if they don't get out of Europe. So at least a weak dollar will make it easy for Ford to keep jobs in the US, and cheaper to export. Airbus to sell factories, sadly Filton near Bristol might be one of them. http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews...549771020071216 The factories are being fully or partially sold to cut overhead costs as part of a plan to combat the effects of a weak dollar, which will also see a reduction of 10,000 European jobs. So l cant see why you have to much to complain about? http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1198152648.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) The problem is that gas is over $3 a gallon and Ford either is unaware of that fact or does not care. Where is the full sized SUV that gets 30+MPG diesel, gas, or hybrid? Add to that buyers see the newest of the new Fords with ~ the same gas mileage as the car/truck they bought 5 years ago i.e. no to little improvement and with trucks sales, Toyota, Nissan and Honda will continue to grow at the expense of Ford and GM. Unless Ford gets on the ball, they will sell even less cars and trucks in 2008 than they do now and neither India or China are yet in the US market. Ford builds what they want to sell instead of building what the people want to buy and with a 12+% loss in US sales in 2007, Ford better start building what people want to buy otherwise 2008 will be an even worse year for Ford and maybe its last as a stand alone company. An example of Ford's reluctance to build what the buyer wants is evidenced by its decision not to develop a hybrid, a 50 state diesel, a PHEV, a 30+MPG 5 passenger sedan, and the list goes on and on. Edited January 4, 2008 by mlhm5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The problem is that gas is over $3 a gallon and Ford either is unaware of that fact or does not care. Where is the full sized SUV that gets 30+MPG diesel, gas, or hybrid? Add to that buyers see the newest of the new Fords with ~ the same gas mileage as the car/truck they bought 5 years ago i.e. no to little improvement. Unless Ford gets on the ball, they will sell even less cars and trucks in 2008 than they do now and neither India or China is yet in the US market. Seems to me Ford builds what they want to sell instead of building what the people want. An example of this strategy is Ford's reluctance to develop a hybrid, a 50 state diesel, and a PHEV. Ford doesn't have a hybrid.....OK. Plug in hybrids and diesels are also on the way. It takes time and money to do things like this across the line. Ford can't do everything in one shot. If they tried that they would go broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, the sky hasn't fallen yet, and its not like these numbers really changed anything. I wonder how long this doom and gloom spell will last... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Plug in hybrids and diesels are also on the way. Combine the two and you have a unique product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Combine the two and you have a unique product. But can it be done at a price people will accept? If not, can Ford afford to absorb the loss they have to take in order to sell the vehicle? If that is in fact the case, and it probably is, what would be the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 But can it be done at a price people will accept? If not, can Ford afford to absorb the loss they have to take in order to sell the vehicle? If that is in fact the case, and it probably is, what would be the point? Sure it can...anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sure it can...anything is possible. Sure, anything is possible, but everything has a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sad to hear that the Transit Connect has been cancelled. It's just my opinion, but I think it would have been a success, even with the lower US dollar. Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.