I'm Liking the Verve

[P71_CrownVic]

Yeah. Because if they're at an auto show (and it's not even open to the public yet), they're representative of the public at large.

 

There is, IMO, a pretty sizable perception gap between the auto enthusiast and the general public, especially when it comes to cars like the Mondeo.

 

The problem I have with the Mondeo, as I've stated repeatedly, is not the quality of the design, but its suitability. It does not say "Ford" to me.

You should read what it says on the front.

 

I guess if the Mondeo looked like this...:

 

 

...It would look more like a "Ford"

[RichardJensen]

That is exactly why it looks so good.

That is a pointlessly stupid remark, and it's a pretty solid clue why people call you a troll.

[RichardJensen]

I guess if the Mondeo looked like this...:

 

(extremely lousy photochop removed)

 

...It would look more like a "Ford"

And, again, you wonder why people call you a troll.

 

That, too, was a pointless and idiotic response.

[P71_CrownVic]

 

 

 

[RichardJensen]

And yet again, you wonder why people call you a troll.

 

What, exactly have either you OR Pioneer contributed to the argument, "It doesn't say Ford to me"????

 

 

Here's a clue for you. It's two words long and I'll spot you the first one:

 

JACK _______

 

You tell me what comes next.....

 

Either find a means of articulating yourself, shut up, or do something that's actually funny.

Edited January 16, 2008 by RichardJensen

[P71_CrownVic]

And yet again, you wonder why people call you a troll.

 

What, exactly have either you OR Pioneer contributed to the argument, "It doesn't say Ford to me"????

Here's a clue for you. It's two words long and I'll spot you the first one:

 

JACK Daniel's?

 

You tell me what comes next.....

 

Either find a means of articulating yourself, shut up, or do something that's actually funny.

 

It is funny, the same thing myself and others get railed for on this site...you and your squad can do to Ford of Europe. It is the same old rhetoric with you.

 

Just admit that Ford of Europe builds nicer, higher quality cars that look better and have a full line of engines.

 

Myself, I hate Ford NA. they have NOTHING on the market that is even remotely interesting. And their idea of all-new is a mild re-fresh that looks 4 years old already.

 

That being said, I love Ford of Europe and Australia. They build vehicles that I would actually want to spend money on. Not this once, twice, three time recycled crap they sell here.

 

And FWIW, that box was damn funny.

Edited January 16, 2008 by P71_CrownVic

[RichardJensen]

It is funny, the same thing myself and others get railed for on this site...you and your squad can do to Ford of Europe. It is the same old rhetoric with you.

Yeah. That's my point. It's that you provided cogent, coherent arguments in support of using the Kinetic design language in the US and I can't refute them, hence I'm mad.

 

Oh, wait, I'm confusing this universe with an alternate one where you actually post reasoned commentary on the topic at hand instead of trashing the stuff you don't like.

[RichardJensen]

And FWIW, that box was damn funny.

Nah. Not really, and given the fact that I've made -you- laugh, I'm going with my instincts on this one.

 

I know funny.

[P71_CrownVic]

Yeah. That's my point. It's that you provided cogent, coherent arguments in support of using the Kinetic design language in the US and I can't refute them, hence I'm mad.

 

Fine...you want all that...here goes:

 

THIS:

 

Is much better looking than this:

 

 

And this:

 

 

Again, is much better looking than this:

 

 

My biggest frustration is that America does not get the best Fords. They reserve them for Europe and Australia.

[RichardJensen]

And FWIW, that box was damn funny.

No, this is funny:

[RichardJensen]

Fine...you want all that...here goes:

Actually, that's still "I like this, I don't like that", why?

 

And FWIW, IMO, I've got to go with the '08 NA Focus over the '08 EU Focus on interiors. Of course, it's still the incredibly lame business of comparing photos of interiors.

[pcsario]

It does not say "Ford" to me.

 

That's the thing I don't get about your POV.

 

Edge is based on a design done for a Lincoln.

 

Said Lincoln doesn't look like an MKZZzzz or MKForenza, which are also quite generic looking.

 

The FuckUs and Fusion have nothing in common other than Dave (and even then, not really)

 

Fusion and Taurus look nothing alike.

 

Mustang... well... self-explanatory, but it's ok.

 

And so on and so on, face it, other than trucks, Ford NA is a mess in terms of design DNA - there's nothing to protect.

 

You can turn anything into a "Red, white and bold" Ford with a simple front-clip swap. (See Edge)

 

Even then, Horbury and Freeman Thomas have different views as to how FNA vehicles should look, which just tells you FNA design was nowhere to begin with. "Dave" came out of something from the J Mays' days. Since we're talking about cars, there's nothing to lose, since...well, there's nothing to gain by following the current path. The public just doesn't like FNA's cars. (And no, by your standards of "success", even the VW Phaeton is a hit)

 

If you are basing your opinion on concepts, then that's a different story, but right now, all you're defending is a grille.

Edited January 16, 2008 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

And this is even funnier....

Edited January 16, 2008 by RichardJensen

[pcsario]

 

Again, is much better looking than this:

 

 

My biggest frustration is that America does not get the best Fords. They reserve them for Europe and Australia.

 

Agreed. Common sense, really.

 

It's amazing how idiotic FNA has been acting these past years. Fusion over Mondeo, FuckUs over C1, etc.

 

And they wonder why they're in the shitter right now.

Edited January 16, 2008 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

Edge is based on a design done for a Lincoln.

 

If you are basing your opinion on concepts, then that's a different story, but right now, all you're defending is a grille.

I would argue that the Edge and Flex represent the "Red White and Bold" language from bumper to bumper, yes with the Focus-Taurus you are looking at a hodge podge of hard points that were set in 1998, 2002, and 2003, but that's hardly an excuse for declaring the design language nothing but a 'grille'.

 

Furthermore, the difference between the MKX & Edge shows that it's very hard to stay true to one aesthetic (red white and bold-slab sides, fender flares, 'chiseled' character lines) and support a second one (the MKX).

[RichardJensen]

 

The difference between these vehicles, and their suitability for the US market is not all in favor of the S-Max, folks.

[RichardJensen]

Compare also:

 

 

You cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth. At once praising Ford for coming up with 'iconic' designs while simultaneously asserting that US consumers want 'international' designs.

[NLPRacing]

 

The difference between these vehicles, and their suitability for the US market is not all in favor of the S-Max, folks.

 

Are these really comparable? The Edge is a 5 seat CUV and the S-Max is a 7 seat people mover. I doubt these would be cross shopped. I know you don't think so, but I still really think the S-Max would have been a great Mercury.

[RichardJensen]

the S-Max is a 7 seat people mover.

The 3rd row in the S-Max has less than 30" of leg room. It's not a true 6/7 seat vehicle.

[silvrsvt]

Myself, I hate Ford NA. they have NOTHING on the market that is even remotely interesting.

 

That being said, I love Ford of Europe and Australia. They build vehicles that I would actually want to spend money on. Not this once, twice, three time recycled crap they sell here.

 

All this coming from a person who loves a car that has zero style to it.

 

If anything, FoA has even worse styling then FNA, their cars still look like they are stuck in the 1990's when it comes to styling. FoE is better, but in Person (which the vast majority of people here never had) they aren't anything special...they are pretty anonymous looking. Everyone falls in love with the highend models all dolled up and photographed nicely...

 

If anything, the lovefest that exists for FoA and FoE only exists because people can't get the cars they like here..

 

Just as an example, here are some everyday photos of Ford Products in the UK I took in September 2006, with some shots of a Mazda 6 and a Chrysler Neon...they sure don't stick out to me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of my fav photos...old School Explorer next to a Focus C-max

 

[silvrsvt]

some more

 

 

 

 

[Loyalbutconcerned]

I need to see it in person. From the photos, it seems larger than it is...at least according to the spec. It should not be about performance or hp. This car needs to be sipping that fuel like the last bottle of water in a desert island.

 

The most fuel efficient configuration will be 40 mpg. Is that in the ball park for you?

[RichardJensen]

Ford has already confirmed plans to converge the next generation of the Fusion and Mondeo, and Smith said his team will be responsible for designing that vehicle.

 

"There's always been more success in taking European vehicles into North America than there has been in taking North America products into Europe," he said.

 

Ford sources also say the next generation of both the European and American Focus will be built on the same platform as the new Mazda3.

 

Peter Horbury, the design director for Ford in North America, said Americans are ready to embrace more sophisticated international designs.

 

"In the era of the Internet, people are visiting the world on a daily basis," he said, stressing that the notion of one Ford is not about cloning vehicles but finding a common foundation on which to build them.

 

See, quotes like this make me nervous.

 

First of all, aside from the VW Beetle, no mass market European car has ever been what could even euphemistically be called a success here. Only luxury cars, which is why Smith's assertion that designs cross from east to west unsettles me.

 

Furthermore, the assertion that North Americans are ready to 'embrace' more 'sophisticated' international designs is condescending, wrong-headed, and not borne out by real world experience.

 

Americans are the most catered to consumers the universe has ever seen. It is not a shock that the vehicles that have been most successful in the US have been vehicles that -cater- to the US, it is, in fact, the logical outcome. From the Camry (which is a total flop in Europe) to the US specific Accord--only in C and B cars (and luxury cars) have the American public shown any inclination to buy what sells in other countries.

 

Therefore, the assertion that it'll just take a different grille insert to palliate US consumers is infuriatingly patronizing and dangerously wrong-headed.

Edited January 16, 2008 by RichardJensen

[silvrsvt]

The most fuel efficient configuration will be 40 mpg. Is that in the ball park for you?

 

I was hoping closer to 42 MPG highway, but thats not bad since most B-cars don't get better mileage then their C counterparts...

[NLPRacing]

The 3rd row in the S-Max has less than 30" of leg room. It's not a true 6/7 seat vehicle.

 

Off Topic - My 8 & 5 year old would fit just fine in that 3rd row. I like the S-Max, and I think a lot of other people do too. If we need more 3rd row room, we'll take our EL.

 

More Off Topic -I wish the Edge had a pretend 3rd row like the CX9, it would make it more desirable to me. It's not that I would need it all the time, but it would be there when I did. When the Flex comes out, we're going to take a look at one. If it fits our needs, it may replace the ole'F150.

 

On Topic - I like the Verve, for a "B" car, I think it looks pretty upscale. I showed a picture of it to my sister and she went crazy. She wanted to know when she could buy one! She also said she would get a Verve before she would get a Mini (and she really likes the Mini and is/was seriously considering getting one).