Biker16 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 You also get a much smaller car, and one with less than 300hp, and FWD only. Remember, we're talking about the ST, not the RS. But the Focus has a usable back seat and a huge trunk. The St is much easier to live with. more comfortable, better on gas, and more useful when moving, because it is a hatchback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 and more useful when moving, because it is a hatchback. It's also more useful when stationary, because it is a hatchback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 after the Verve and C2 focus, it will scream ford. No. It will merely say Ford in a quiet, albeit well-modulated tone of voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 No. It will merely say Ford in a quiet, albeit well-modulated tone of voice. I'm thinking back to how much the original Taurus said "Ford" or the 97 F150. Every once in a while, Ford comes out with something that is definitely not in keeping with the rest of the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I'm thinking back to how much the original Taurus said "Ford" or the 97 F150. Every once in a while, Ford comes out with something that is definitely not in keeping with the rest of the lineup. True. But both vehicles also stood out in the marketplace as a whole. Without going into an extensive discussion of Ford's European design language vs. the US language (as this is neither the time or the place), I will simply state that the market in Europe is sufficiently different than the US (many European players--Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat-Lancia/Renault--are not in the US at all) to allow Ford's designs to fit into a niche there while more or less blending in here. Any further discussion really should go in the Ford Europe thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 The Verve, as shown at NAIAS, is looking sweet. It might be enough to make a B-car buyer out of me. If that car came out tomorrow, it would be a slam-dunk, hands-down winner in the segment. I think Ford needs to get it here within 18 months, no later. I like the vehicle too. I think they did a good job with it. I also believe it will destroy the other b segment offerings when it debuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 They have, it's called the Ford Mondeo, a car you consistently like to downplay here. Unless, of course, you're flip flopping once again, which wouldn't surprise me in the least. I think that's a good picture of the Mondeo. It shows/accents the vehicle's profile and character lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I like the Verve concepts. Because all the other B cars on the market in the US look like dishwashers. The Yaris, Aveo, Fit, Versa.. All of them are ill proportioned beasties. OTOH, the Verve looks like a normal car. Plus I really like the big grille on the Euro version. I do too. The Verve is MUCH better looking than any other b-car offering. I like the grille they gave our US version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 ***the following post contains a minor criticism of something Ford did*** Does anyone know what they are going to call this car when it finally arrives as a production model? I don't like the name "Verve" and I particularly don't like the name "Fiesta." I don't believe they've decided yet. IIRC, somebody here said the European version will retain the name Fiesta, but for NA I think they're still undecided or at least haven't announced it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 sorry PC, I couldn't disagree more, the Verve has a subtle elegance and flow that the Yaris lacks COMPLETELY, in fact it looks like one of those toys that when you squeeze it the eyes do a Marty Feldman and pop out....its just plain ugly...irrespective of size I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 It is funny, the same thing myself and others get railed for on this site...you and your squad can do to Ford of Europe. It is the same old rhetoric with you. Just admit that Ford of Europe builds nicer, higher quality cars that look better and have a full line of engines. Myself, I hate Ford NA. they have NOTHING on the market that is even remotely interesting. And their idea of all-new is a mild re-fresh that looks 4 years old already. That being said, I love Ford of Europe and Australia. They build vehicles that I would actually want to spend money on. Not this once, twice, three time recycled crap they sell here. And FWIW, that box was damn funny. So maybe you should go move to Europe or Austrailia, and if you don't wanna do that, just go buy another Panther, they'll be around for another few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Fine...you want all that...here goes: THIS: Is much better looking than this: And this: Again, is much better looking than this: My biggest frustration is that America does not get the best Fords. They reserve them for Europe and Australia. I find it interesting that you compare the outside of the Euro Focus to the inside of our Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 No, this is funny: That is actually quite humorous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 (edited) And this is even funnier.... (Yes, Richard, I'm 'catching up' again if you hadn't noticed by now.) Edited January 20, 2008 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Compare also: You cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth. At once praising Ford for coming up with 'iconic' designs while simultaneously asserting that US consumers want 'international' designs. The S-Max may sell ok here, but the Galaxy looks too much like a minivan to me for it to do well in the US market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 All this coming from a person who loves a car that has zero style to it. If anything, FoA has even worse styling then FNA, their cars still look like they are stuck in the 1990's when it comes to styling. FoE is better, but in Person (which the vast majority of people here never had) they aren't anything special...they are pretty anonymous looking. Everyone falls in love with the highend models all dolled up and photographed nicely... If anything, the lovefest that exists for FoA and FoE only exists because people can't get the cars they like here.. Just as an example, here are some everyday photos of Ford Products in the UK I took in September 2006, with some shots of a Mazda 6 and a Chrysler Neon...they sure don't stick out to me One of my fav photos...old School Explorer next to a Focus C-max That Focus' wheels are ugly. Also, that Ka is pretty ugly too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 some more I find it interesting how they had to adapt the Explorer's design for the Euro tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 All those European license tags are hideous...really doesn't help vehicles much. Lets at least be thankful here in the US we have choices when it comes to tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 All those European license tags are hideous...really doesn't help vehicles much. Lets at least be thankful here in the US we have choices when it comes to tags. I agree. Although some Euro tags can look good on the front of vehicles. Our tags dont look good on the front of any of our vehicles, IMO. I'm glad I live in a state where front plates aren't required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I know alot of people are bitching about Ford taking so long for a B-car to come out, but would you rather see them throw something in the market like the EcoSport or let them do something right like Verve that will blow the doors off any of the other B-cars looks wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I know alot of people are bitching about Ford taking so long for a B-car to come out, but would you rather see them throw something in the market like the EcoSport or let them do something right like Verve that will blow the doors off any of the other B-cars looks wise? I'd rather have them have a competitive entry to the market. Some may think it would've been better to rush a product here to establish a customer base. In my thinking, if that product is not up to snuff and is not at least equal with the competition, whatever customers you did gain would go to another brand for their next purchase, so you'd be starting from scratch anyways. With a competitive entry, Ford will not only establish a customer base for the current times, they will establish a customer base that extends into the future that will continue to buy that good quality Ford product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I know alot of people are bitching about Ford taking so long for a B-car to come out, but would you rather see them throw something in the market like the EcoSport or let them do something right like Verve that will blow the doors off any of the other B-cars looks wise? Agreed, FOE's hand was needed to make an impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Agreed, FOE's hand was needed to make an impact. :rolleyes: Typical pscario.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 :rolleyes: Typical pscario.... He's right, compare the Fiesta to the US Focus, the only recent North American Ford that looks good is the Flex.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 He's right, compare the Fiesta to the US Focus, the only recent North American Ford that looks good is the Flex.. Actually, one should compare the Fiesta to the Aveo, and ask why GM's B car looks so cotton-picking cheap? I mean GM has all the engineering and design resources in Europe that Ford does, and like Ford, GM offers a European B car. Why, then, did GM go all discount bargain bin on the Aveo? I mean, frankly, NA engineers have about as much business working on a Fiesta sized vehicle as European engineers have working on a Super Duty. There is no institutional knowledge in either division for vehicles that are simply not a sizable part of their home market. Quite obviously Ford Europe was necessary for the Fiesta. The question is, where was GM's European unit when the Aveo was designed? Why was =that= fobbed off entirely on the Koreans @ Daewoo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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