taurus ST coming.

[TomServo92]

Things are even worse than I imagined if that is the plan. Unlike with SVT stuff, they had better not be intending to charge a heavy premium for this bit of badge manipulation. Same engine, different shocks and spring rates. Betcha somebody in the leftover marketing dept thinks that will pass for performance in the current era.

 

Ok...lemme get this straight...a twin turbo Ecoboost with 350HP is "badge manipulation"?

[Noah Harbinger]

Sweet

 

(don't get hopes up, don't get hopes up, don't get hopes up..... damn, too late).

[Shoman594]

Ok...lemme get this straight...a twin turbo Ecoboost with 350HP is "badge manipulation"?

 

How is it not when your run of the mill F-150 will be getting one ?

 

Plus this is 2008, when the car comes out in 2010 or so 350hp is just not going to cut it. Today the mark to hit is 400 for performance sedans.

[TomServo92]

How is it not when your run of the mill F-150 will be getting one ?

 

Plus this is 2008, when the car comes out in 2010 or so 350hp is just not going to cut it. Today the mark to hit is 400 for performance sedans.

 

That has nothing to do with whether or not it's "badge manipulation".

[MERKURXR4Ti]

Ok...lemme get this straight...a twin turbo Ecoboost with 350HP is "badge manipulation"?

 

If the MKS on the same platform gets it and costs tons more I'd say it is.

[JETSOLVER]

Ok...lemme get this straight...a twin turbo Ecoboost with 350HP is "badge manipulation"?

 

Assuming that the top trim level lux model gets a detuned version of same(and I read that as a pretty safe assumption), yup.

 

SVT was predicated on a top to bottom look at the product to focus it for specific buyers. If this (ST) is the end of the SVT legacy, its kind of soft, speaking as a former new owner of said product. One that paid around a 30% premium for said product and perfectly happy to do so, believing I got darn good value for it.

 

I sure wouldn't pay that for a tweaked engine and shocks. I doubt that 15% of prospective Tauri owners would either.

[Shoman594]

So, that ends the flush of anticipation for a proper SHO. That lasted about a week. Good Job Ford boys and girls, you really don't get it do you? You got more word of mouth and viral marketing for that one suggestion than you have in a VERY long time. Like years. And a half baked version is the result. You're going to get killed by the mass media rags etc.

 

 

AND that means that what currently passes for SVT is doing nothing.

 

Nice.

 

And for the lack of that nothing, they expect the modern, educated and cost concious buyer to settle for this to the tune of 12/15% of total production?

 

Things are even worse than I imagined if that is the plan. Unlike with SVT stuff, they had better not be intending to charge a heavy premium for this bit of badge manipulation. Same engine, different shocks and spring rates. Betcha somebody in the leftover marketing dept thinks that will pass for performance in the current era.

 

Sadly mistaken if so.

 

And does that mean that the rest of the Tauri don't get the IRS? (hoping that is irony)

FTA

"Suspension-wise, the ST will feature a sport tuned version of Ford's new SR1 (Shock Ratio 1) suspension. The SR1 setup is a new independent rear suspension that will debut on Lincoln's MKS"

 

So is there anyway that that IRS can be stuffed under a proper Mustang? I mean one that isn't stickered up to within an inch of its life?

 

Rats, I was hoping for more.

 

 

You about hit the nail on the head, this is not 1995. Ford can not just put out another impala ss clone and expect us to spend our hard earned money on the car. We want AWD, a manual transmission and 400hp so the car can be right up there with the G8 and grab the rags attention. The car needs to get people excited and drooling over taking one out for a test drive!!!!!! Other wise its going to be 5th place on the enthusiast comparison tests and like you said get destroyed in the performance road tests and if thats how its going to be, I will be glad the SHO name plate will not be on the car.

 

Again though, I will hold judgment until something firm comes from ford. I know they are working on something good, I just hope its not what that article is talking about.

 

At this point I am still enthusiastic about every thing I have heard so far "excluding this article".

[TomServo92]

Assuming that the top trim level lux model gets a detuned version of same(and I read that as a pretty safe assumption), yup.

 

That's not the way I read the article.

 

SVT was predicated on a top to bottom look at the product to focus it for specific buyers. If this (ST) is the end of the SVT legacy, its kind of soft, speaking as a former new owner of said product. One that paid around a 30% premium for said product and perfectly happy to do so, believing I got darn good value for it.

 

I sure wouldn't pay that for a tweaked engine and shocks. I doubt that 15% of prospective Tauri owners would either.

 

Who's to say that the ST will be "top of the Taurus food chain"?

 

At any rate, all of this is just speculation at this point. Getting all up in arms about it now is just a waste of time.

[TomServo92]

You about hit the nail on the head, this is not 1995. Ford can not just put out another impala ss clone and expect us to spend our hard earned money on the car. We want AWD, a manual transmission and 400hp so the car can be right up there with the G8 and grab the rags attention. The car needs to get people excited and drooling over taking one out for a test drive!!!!!! Other wise its going to be 5th place on the enthusiast comparison tests and like you said get destroyed in the performance road tests and if thats how its going to be, I will be glad the SHO name plate will not be on the car.

 

Again though, I will hold judgment until something firm comes from ford. I know they are working on something good, I just hope its not what that article is talking about.

 

At this point I am still enthusiastic about every thing I have heard so far "excluding this article".

 

That's the smart thing to do. But then again, this board isn't known for that type of "practical thinking"...

[NLPRacing]

How is it not when your run of the mill F-150 will be getting one ?

 

Plus this is 2008, when the car comes out in 2010 or so 350hp is just not going to cut it. Today the mark to hit is 400 for performance sedans.

 

Who said the Taurus ST (or SHO or whatever) will have an official 350HP? A DI TT 3.5 should be able to make 400 HP without even trying hard.

 

As far as diluting the MKS or "badge manipulation" and all that, I see this as a good thing. Ford is taking the MKS and de-contenting to to be the new Taurus. Another company did this is 90's and that car is now the best selling car (and maybe soon the best selling vehicle) in the country. Toyota took the 90 Camry and added a few features and then called it the all new 90 Lexus ES250. They quickly learned that taking mainstream vehicles and re-badging them as luxury cars doesn't work so well. So, Toyota developed the all new 92 ES300 and then de-contented it to become the all new 92 Camry. They found that designing it as luxury first, then changing it to be mainstream is much easier. Plus, then you don't get accused of "re-badging". Too bad that it took Ford so long to learn it...

[JETSOLVER]

Enthusiasts by definition spend more time and money on purchase choices. I am saying that a product that is suggested to debut by next summer (say 14 months from now) that is already effectively behind the 8 ball (both within the media, and the extended mass perception of Ford), is a bit of missing the shot.

 

 

Again.

 

Or still if you prefer.

 

FWIW I am yet again putting money aside for my next new machine(enthusiast, remember?) the new CTS-V. Just like I did for my 94 Stang GT, my 97 SVT COBRA, and my 07 Cayman. Perhaps that is the problem here, that ST is not for enthusiasts, despite the viral marketing that just occured by focus grouping the SHO types.

 

And as for the board, it wouldn't exist without this sort of thing.

Edited May 29, 2008 by JETSOLVER

[TomServo92]

Enthusiasts by definition spend more time and money on purchase choices. I am saying that a product that is suggested to debut by next summer (say 14 months from now) that is already effectively behind the 8 ball (both within the media, and the extended mass perception of Ford), is a bit of missing the shot.

 

 

Again.

 

Or still if you prefer.

 

FWIW I am yet again putting money aside for my next new machine(enthusiast, remember?) the new CTS-V. Just like I did for my 94 Stang GT, my 97 SVT COBRA, and my 07 Cayman. Perhaps that is the problem here, that ST is not for enthusiasts, despite the viral marketing that just occured by focus grouping the SHO types.

 

And as for the board, it wouldn't exist without this sort of thing.

 

Nothing officially announced from Ford and it's already "behind the 8 ball". Unbelievable....

[RichardJensen]

Ford still owns the trademark SHO for cars:

 

It's serial number 73801872 in the TESS database.

[JETSOLVER]

Who said the Taurus ST (or SHO or whatever) will have an official 350HP? A DI TT 3.5 should be able to make 400 HP without even trying hard.

 

As far as diluting the MKS or "badge manipulation" and all that, I see this as a good thing. Ford is taking the MKS and de-contenting to to be the new Taurus. Another company did this is 90's and that car is now the best selling car (and maybe soon the best selling vehicle) in the country. Toyota took the 90 Camry and added a few features and then called it the all new 90 Lexus ES250. They quickly learned that taking mainstream vehicles and re-badging them as luxury cars doesn't work so well. So, Toyota developed the all new 92 ES300 and then de-contented it to become the all new 92 Camry. They found that designing it as luxury first, then changing it to be mainstream is much easier. Plus, then you don't get accused of "re-badging". Too bad that it took Ford so long to learn it...

 

 

Careful, you might get called out for suggesting something on an internet board.

 

And if one wants an enthusiast vehicle, one should take a lesson from Ford and all that they said about the S-197 program. Recall reading in every mag for over a year about how they were "baking" in performance atributes from engineering spark 1? The chassis is good for making a buck at the rental car level all the way up to "supersnake".

 

A lesson learned from stitching the SN-95 program together by SVT(pretty good by the time the program ended, admittedly).

 

It seems to me that if an organization is planning many varients of a common platform or system, they had better overshoot the mark early.

 

As opposed to trying to re-engineer it later. That is ALWAYS the more expensive and unsatisfactory way to accomplish the task.

[RichardJensen]

Suspension-wise, the ST will feature a sport tuned version of Ford's new SR1 (Shock Ratio 1) suspension. The SR1 setup is a new independent rear suspension that will debut on Lincoln's MKS

Uh. Because Ford should design a totally different suspension for a limited volume model????????????????

 

I mean it's not as though Ford can make the Taurus suspensions extra super independent, as opposed to the run of the mill independent suspension on the current Taurus.

[Sixt9coug]

OMFG! This site is such a bitch fest sometimes!!

 

Ford is going to make a 350hp, AWD Twin Turbo sedan for the masses, and people are bitching?

 

WTF people? The car sounds awesome. ST, SVT, or SHO. It sounds awesome in any name.

[V8 Ford]

Key word being 'can do'. If people want the Taurus ST to roll with the G*, it needs to either be a RWD car (AWD is unnesessary), or for the people who don't know how to drive, a RWD car until slip is detected, then transfer power to the front.

Why does it matter what wheels have most of the power when the car is crusing in a straight line? If the system is biased towards the rear wheels during acceleration and cornering (like the ford system is), there's no difference in performance in any applications where power distribution matters.

[Sixt9coug]

I mean it's not as though Ford can make the Taurus suspensions extra super independent, as opposed to the run of the mill independent suspension on the current Taurus.

 

 

You arent thinking out of the box.

 

VW has Super Independent IRS mastered,

 

behold SIIRS

 

[snooter]

The same number of people that know "ST" is Ford's sport badge.

 

Hell, first time I saw the title of the thread, I thought Ford was building a Taurus Sport Trac.

 

thats is funny because when i saw the thread title i thought taurus sport truck and immediately next thought "what the hell"

[rmc523]

That said, I think more people here in the states would recognize SVT than ST, so I still don't get this naming reconvention.

 

First, as somebody else said, SVT would've had to work on it for it to be an SVT and it doesn't sound like they have.

 

Second, maybe it's part of Ford unifying it's global product lineup?

[JETSOLVER]

Why does it matter what wheels have most of the power when the car is crusing in a straight line? If the system is biased towards the rear wheels during acceleration and cornering (like the ford system is), there's no difference in performance in any applications where power distribution matters.

 

Unless your entire driving career has been spent with FWD. As those of us who grew up with big, heavy and drum braked big blocks will attest, the transition to FWD drive was interesting under duress. They don't act the same. I agree that new systems are mostly seamless, but even Porsche had issues with the first and second gen of management systems disconcerting older owners. And they don't sell volume to people who we hope are cross shopping the usual suspects. A very good system can fool even the aware into believing otherwise, but the fact that having to design to a common denominator allows for possible issues with the unaware(think about the guff around ABS, stunning as it seems to some of us!).

 

I suspect that the point is that a mis-step will cost much in media crap and perception(which is why the big Blue has to try so much harder than the facts might indicate).

 

Perception is EVERYTHING in volume marketing.

 

Ask Msoft why we put up with the endless updates, for a system that effectively does exactly what the last version did.

 

We are all cattle in our own way when it comes to purchase decisions. Otherwise the global marketing industry wouldn't exist, because all we would have is the "right" choice.

 

And for Sixt9coug, you are correct that the very idea is cool, except that Ford(in general, if not specifics), here is shooting at a moving target, one that has, at least by sales and profit numbers, taken its market leading position away. Is the new Tauri group enough to take the T and H numbers back?

 

Thats a lot of product, all here hope so.

 

Edit:

 

Rmc, you are correct, but didn't the discussion about the need to differentiate product for unique markets vice unification already have a glass house conclusion otherwise?

Edited May 29, 2008 by JETSOLVER

[Ford-150]

First, as somebody else said, SVT would've had to work on it for it to be an SVT and it doesn't sound like they have.

 

Second, maybe it's part of Ford unifying it's global product lineup?

you bring up a very good point.

 

they could have the FoE tuners working on it

 

LOL at this board

 

it took just the first fucking reply for someone to bitch about it

[timmm55]

OMFG! This site is such a bitch fest sometimes!!

 

Ford is going to make a 350hp, AWD Twin Turbo sedan for the masses, and people are bitching?

 

WTF people? The car sounds awesome. ST, SVT, or SHO. It sounds awesome in any name.

 

Exactly! Since this being leaked now (with regular gas over $4.00) I assume it's been in development for awhile (we've seen the videos, duh) and this is the detuned version!

 

Doesn't anybody remember the Focus ST? It came after the demise of the Focus SVT. This ST is also an inhouse design....meaning there would be room for tuners and a 420 HP premium fuel SHO to follow if there was enough interest. IF anybody is even remotely interested in anything over 2.0 liters by then!

[Ford-150]

thats is funny because when i saw the thread title i thought taurus sport truck and immediately next thought "what the hell"

are you serious?

 

 

are you serious?

 

 

are you serious?

 

omg.....

[Ford-150]

350 HP and about equal amount of torque out of a 3.5L DI TT engine is very underrated

 

even if it does come like that im sure an easy tune would be able to get it up and above 400 and still run strong

 

also this should not compete with the G8, Ford should import the falcon for that