FordBuyer Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Richard Gensler, (probably spelled his name wrong), head designer of new Flex lost his job in last round of cuts, as reported in Detroit Free Press Business page today. Unbelievable to me that a head designer of major new offering is cut. No one is safe at Ford. Around here, July sales are scary slow as pretty much nothing is selling. June was good compared to this month. Hardly anyone buying new vehicle this month. Even Bill Brown Ford is doing January business, and most sales are fleet and that is it. July sales are going to be brutal. So we see chief designers of major programs losing their jobs. Unbelievable. Sales people at major Metro Detroit Dealerships have nothing to do. No business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Oh dear, that doesn't sound good on several levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Sales out here are ok. The problem is just lack of inventory of the cars that people want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Oh dear, that doesn't sound good on several levels. To me, what is scary is round after round of cuts with no end in sight. Where is the light at the end of the tunnel? All one can hope for now is continuing moderating fuel prices and hopefully a breather from this stagflation that is killing the economy. Ford and GM need a couple of good sales months and consumers need a break from rising fuel prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 The best cure for 'stagflation' is an easing of oil prices which will help the economy at all levels. The sooner oil speculation collapses in on itself the better, recovery will bring a stronger dollar too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I wonder if Scion will hire him back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERKURXR4Ti Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 This just shows how screwed up Ford's management system is. Someone makes a gut decision, it doesn't work out, screw em! If Ford focuses on surveys and shit like that they will get nowhere! Sometimes a gut decision from a car guy/nut is exactly what a CAR company needs. I really feel that Mulally will fix this screwed up nature of Ford. Give it time Naysayers At this point Ford is better placed than any other domestic automaker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 The best cure for 'stagflation' is an easing of oil prices which will help the economy at all levels.The sooner oil speculation collapses in on itself the better, recovery will bring a stronger dollar too. The big question is are people permantly scared off big cars or only for while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 It alway hurts to see folk lose their jobs and such very talented folk like this chap but once you start building global cars jobs are going to get duplicated jobs around the world, its a sad fact most of the cars & vans that are coming to the States will from Europe will have been designed there. Don't know if Flex production lines are up to speed yet but 1,300 sales is not pretty, the Flex was conceived at a time of cheap fuel prices but it just shows how fortunes can change thats why in future it might be wise to build a bit of reserve fuel efficiency into the design of everything Ford makes so sales don't suffer. Richard Gensler done a great job of the Flex but it was just to big if it had been sized somwhere between his Flex and the small Mini Ford would have had a massive hit on their books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) The big question is are people permantly scared off big cars or only for while? Nope, the market is still there and when oil prices stabilise a bit the market will recover. Irrespective of the vehicle size, consumers will demand much more fuel economy so maybe by 2011, large Ford vehicles will go to 2.5 EB, V6 EB, hybrids and diesel - V8s will be very rare indeed. The funny thing is perception of size in North America. Traditionally the US has sized it vehicles on how the look on the outside yet, the current trends are to maximise internal dimensions. What was once believed to be a small car now has quite a lot of internal space, so maybe large cars like the Taurus ultimately are replaced by vehicles offereing the same internal dimensions and capacity but present externally as a much smaller vehicle. This then sets Ford the perplexing task of offering more efficiently packed cars and charging more for them while trying to convince the buying public that they aren't being ripped off. Edited July 27, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...ESS07/807260308 You really think being the designer of the Flex had anything to do with it, or is he just one more person among the 15%? http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...mp;#entry383145 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrtran Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 The funny thing is perception of size in North America.Traditionally the US has sized it vehicles on how the look on the outside yet, the current trends are to maximise internal dimensions. What was once believed to be a small car now has quite a lot of internal space, so maybe large cars like the Taurus ultimately are replaced by vehicles offereing the same internal dimensions and capacity but present externally as a much smaller vehicle. FYI: The Taurus has just about the same internal dimensions as the Falcon, and is only a few cm longer, wider, and higher. It's already pretty tightly packed. You're probably thinking of the traditional US large cars like the Crown Vic, Buick Park Avenue, Chevy Caprice, etc. - most of which are gone or going, except for the Buick Lucerne/Cadillac DTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 It alway hurts to see folk lose their jobs and such very talented folk like this chap but once you start building global cars jobs are going to get duplicated jobs around the world, its a sad fact most of the cars & vans that are coming to the States will from Europe will have been designed there. Jelly, you hit the nail on the head. I got a list of the layoffs via e-mail. In addition to Rich, there were a lot of names on the list I wouldn't have expected from a capability standpoint (and some that should have been gone some time ago -- and others I wish were gone but unfortunately didn't make the list). And prominent among the names were chassis engineering managers and vehicle integration/development engineerings and managers. I'm not talking about bureaucrat engineers, but guys who could design a suspension from scratch if they were asked to. These people are being fired because their work is being performed elsewhere. I must admit, as an American, I am severely embarrassed that our country seems to be on the road to be nothing more than a place to sell stuff that is developed and often times manufactured elsewhere. And in the auto industry, the US appears to becoming simply the battleground of Asia-designed vs. Euro-designed vehicles. But....we've still got body-on-frame expertise. And if fins ever come back in style, we've got that technology also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I wonder if Scion will hire him back? He came from Scion? Hmmmm, the Flex is now making sense....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 He came from Scion? Hmmmm, the Flex is now making sense....... that was a joke - no he did not come from Scion. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 that was a joke - no he did not come from Scion. Igor Damn you P!! You had me going for a sec. I was already on google trying to confirm his Scion past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I'm pretty sure two factors weighed heavily on the layoffs: 1) job duplication and 2) performance. If either of these things was significantly off, the person was listed as a potential layoff. I'm positive that the Flex designer wasn't laid off because of the Flex. The Flex is brand new in a gittery marketplace. I'm willing to bet that one of those two factors played a role. Coincidence, but not causality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I must admit, as an American, I am severely embarrassed that our country seems to be on the road to be nothing more than a place to sell stuff that is developed and often times manufactured elsewhere. And in the auto industry, the US appears to becoming simply the battleground of Asia-designed vs. Euro-designed vehicles. Unfortunately, this has been a long time coming. We (in manufacturing) have been saying for years and year that if we can lose good paying manufacturing jobs as they are outsourced, that good paying technical jobs will follow. No manufacturer is going to want to build in China or India, etc. and have their engineers sitting in an office halfway around the globe. Of course, this suggestion was met with "well, we don't NEED manufacturing, we'll be a service-based economy -- we'll be the engineers and lawyers and doctors, etc." like North America has the corner on education or intelligence. If you can outsource the factories, you can outsource the services attached to them. And this is what you're seeing now. It won't be lond when we don't need as many financial planners and doctors too, because nobody will have the money to pay them. People have to wake up from the "screw you, Jack; I've got mine" mentality before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 that was a joke - no he did not come from Scion. Igor Ford!!LOL??? isn't too quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 like North America has the corner on education or intelligence. The thing is that we do, why do we have so many students from India, China, etc coming to our Colleges and Universities? People get far too hung up manufacturing, matter of fact to get out of developing nation status, you need to have service related jobs to do so..thats why China and India are still considered developing nations by the UN and other bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 From a PR standpoint, it was not good for Ford to lay off the chief designer of an important product that just came out. I can't believe Ford did this. Who's next...the chief designer of the Fiesta? However, I would think that once fuel prices moderate for awhile, and Ford markets the Flex, it should do OK. I notice that in Metro Detroit Ford is already offering lease rates of $299/month on the Flex and advertising them on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 From a PR standpoint, it was not good for Ford to lay off the chief designer of an important product that just came out. I can't believe Ford did this. Who's next...the chief designer of the Fiesta? Well, it was too bad about what's his name. Considering that the styling theme for the next generation of Ford cars is already being worked on, and that Lincoln's styling team seems to be sufficient, there might not have been another big project for him to be director of, and won't until the new theme has been worked out. Maybe he didn't want to design Mercury grills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhm5 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 If Ford is going to do this, why not just fire the PR department also, obviously they were bypassed here. When Ford wants to shoot themselves in the foot, they don't want any help. On second thought, don't fire them, they are still needed to patch "why we shot ourselves in the foot" problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 The thing is that we do, why do we have so many students from India, China, etc coming to our Colleges and Universities? Not for long. If we keep educating other countries educators, it won't be long until we are not needed anymore. People get far too hung up manufacturing And some people don't recognise it's importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 And some people don't recognize it's importance. The problem is that people are far too hung up on it, not to say its not important, but its also not the only benchmark of success.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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