Ford is trying to screw my family

[gc_e46]

Hello Everyone,

 

Sorry for the long story but here goes.

 

Three months ago my dad took in our 2000 Ford Mustang GT into the following dealership to fix the throw-out bearing, a very normal thing for this car due to the TSBs on that problem.

 

EAST-COURT FORD LINCOLN

4700 Sheppard Ave EAST

Agincourt, ONTARIO

M1S 3V6

 

The Ford technicians analyzed the problem and tried to fix the throw-out bearing. Unfortunately that was not the problem. A specialist came in to look at the problem and said that the car will need a new engine. My dad made sure that the repairs would be covered by warranty (we have the extended warranty from Ford). They said YES IT WOULD BE COVERED on more than one occassion. They even said the the Steeda clutch adjustor that we installed a week before with a licensed mechanic WOULD NOT VOID THE WARRANTY.

 

Three months passed as they tried to make the car work after they installed the engine. Unfortunately, they could not. NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO PLACE THE BLAME ON US!!! They are trying to say that we caused the problem because we did our own oil changes. That is a load of crap. If that was a problem, why didn't they say something before they "tried" to do all this work on the car???? It's like, telling me I won a free vacation and three months later saying, "Oh, by the way, you owe us $10,000." I think they are back peddling and trying to transfer the blame of a problem they created.

 

Someone better do something about this because this is unbelieveably crooked. And by the way, yes I did regular changes with high synthetic 5W-30 oil and Ford FL-820 filters with my mechanic. I'm going to dig through my records to get everything that I have, but techincally I should not have to show them that info.

[Bored of Pisteon]

I just hope this thread doesn't turn into another OtisFordSwallowsTheLemon fest.

[J-150]

Someone better do something about this because this is unbelieveably crooked. And by the way, yes I did regular changes with high synthetic 5W-30 oil and Ford FL-820 filters with my mechanic. I'm going to dig through my records to get everything that I have, but techincally I should not have to show them that info.

 

 

ummm... if you did your own oil, then of course you need to prove that you did it and more importantly, did it correctly.

[01FOCI]

Hello Everyone,

 

Sorry for the long story but here goes.

 

Three months ago my dad took in our 2000 Ford Mustang GT into the following dealership to fix the throw-out bearing, a very normal thing for this car due to the TSBs on that problem.

 

EAST-COURT FORD LINCOLN

4700 Sheppard Ave EAST

Agincourt, ONTARIO

M1S 3V6

 

The Ford technicians analyzed the problem and tried to fix the throw-out bearing. Unfortunately that was not the problem. A specialist came in to look at the problem and said that the car will need a new engine. My dad made sure that the repairs would be covered by warranty (we have the extended warranty from Ford). They said YES IT WOULD BE COVERED on more than one occassion. They even said the the Steeda clutch adjustor that we installed a week before with a licensed mechanic WOULD NOT VOID THE WARRANTY.

 

Three months passed as they tried to make the car work after they installed the engine. Unfortunately, they could not. NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO PLACE THE BLAME ON US!!! They are trying to say that we caused the problem because we did our own oil changes. That is a load of crap. If that was a problem, why didn't they say something before they "tried" to do all this work on the car???? It's like, telling me I won a free vacation and three months later saying, "Oh, by the way, you owe us $10,000." I think they are back peddling and trying to transfer the blame of a problem they created.

 

Someone better do something about this because this is unbelieveably crooked. And by the way, yes I did regular changes with high synthetic 5W-30 oil and Ford FL-820 filters with my mechanic. I'm going to dig through my records to get everything that I have, but techincally I should not have to show them that info.

 

Your story does not add up, you state that they are going to replace the engine, they cannot make new engine work because you did your own oil changes on the old engine... Please clarify your ramblings. I think this board keeps getting hijacked by hotheads...

Edited December 5, 2005 by 01FOCI

[gc_e46]

ummm... if you did your own oil, then of course you need to prove that you did it and more importantly, did it correctly.

 

I do have the receipts from the purchase of oil and oil filters but the point is, why would they say it's covered by warranty, do a whole mess load of work on the car, and then ALL OF A SUDDEN request for oil change records. They should have found any problems, and resolved whether oil changes were a factor when they first inspected the car and DEFINITELY before they authorized warranty work (IT EVEN SAYS THAT IN THE EXTENDED WARRANTY DOCUMENT - THE WORD IS "BEFORE"). I think the amount of work snowballed on them and they realized that this is going to cost a lot of money so they want to pinpoint ANY small deficiency in my maintenance schedule to get out of footing the bill. "Oh sir, you were 1 day off changing oil in the month of May, sorry your warranty is void."

 

 

Your story does not add up, you state that they are going to replace the engine, they cannot make new engine work because you did your own oil changes on the old engine... Please clarify your ramblings. I think this board keeps getting hijacked by hotheads...

 

If you read my post more carefully and was knowledgeable about Ford and warranties you would know that you can do your own oil changes and that I have any extended 6 year Ford Warranty. You just need to keep records of your maintenance and make sure you comply to standard Ford timetables. I think this board is getting hijacked by ignorant people who don't read but just shoot off their mouths...

[98shotoy11]

I've heard "rumors" about the oil change thing but no where in my contract does it say I must get an oil change at a Ford dealer or certified location in order for my waranttee to accept any repairs. There is no way in hell they can tell what brand of oil you use so once again we are back to the dealers and customer service screwing up the Ford name....well whats left of it anyways.

[fllcobra]

I think it is best to contact your states dept of consumer services that regulates auto repair shops (if such regulation exists where you live). While your situation is unfortunate, it shouldn't be entirely unexpected. The reason is, Ford can disassemble the engine to find the root cause of the failure. If it turns up something that was missed on the initial quote, you can get hit with the bill.

 

Laws in each state vary so that is why it is critical for you to do you homework with regards to you legal rights. Otherwise you are really facing an uphill battle.

 

I also want to add that Ford is operating just like every other manufacturer. My parents owned an Infiniti J30 that was 5 years old and 61,500 miles on the odometer. The extended warrantee had just expired by 1,500 miles before it was discovered that three oil seals in the engine were leaking oil, badly. It was pretty obvious to us that the symptoms were there prior to warrantee expiring. Infiniti didn't budge. They dumped the car and the brand after that experience.

 

The simple truth is contracts are clear. If you are getting any major work done on your vehicle it is critical you get estimates in writing. Without a written estimate or repair contract, no one here or anywhere will feel much sympathy for your claim.

[gc_e46]

I think it is best to contact your states dept of consumer services that regulates auto repair shops (if such regulation exists where you live). While your situation is unfortunate, it shouldn't be entirely unexpected. The reason is, Ford can disassemble the engine to find the root cause of the failure. If it turns up something that was missed on the initial quote, you can get hit with the bill.

 

Laws in each state vary so that is why it is critical for you to do you homework with regards to you legal rights. Otherwise you are really facing an uphill battle.

 

I also want to add that Ford is operating just like every other manufacturer. My parents owned an Infiniti J30 that was 5 years old and 61,500 miles on the odometer. The extended warrantee had just expired by 1,500 miles before it was discovered that three oil seals in the engine were leaking oil, badly. It was pretty obvious to us that the symptoms were there prior to warrantee expiring. Infiniti didn't budge. They dumped the car and the brand after that experience.

 

The simple truth is contracts are clear. If you are getting any major work done on your vehicle it is critical you get estimates in writing. Without a written estimate or repair contract, no one here or anywhere will feel much sympathy for your claim.

 

Thank you for your post. Geez, there is some intelligent life in this board. Actually, we have a print out of the work order and it says specifically on the work order WARRANTY. Of course, when they made the copy of the work order for us a couple months ago, they wrote VOID on it probably to cover their ass in this case. One interesting thing that I just found because they are making me dig up the records is that in May 2005 Ford did an oil change on my car and put 5W-20 oil in my car. My car is supposed to take 5W-30. That's a NO NO for summer driving. I wonder if I can use that against them?

[fllcobra]

Thank you for your post. Geez, there is some intelligent life in this board. Actually, we have a print out of the work order and it says specifically on the work order WARRANTY. Of course, when they made the copy of the work order for us a couple months ago, they wrote VOID on it probably to cover their ass in this case. One interesting thing that I just found because they are making me dig up the records is that in May 2005 Ford did an oil change on my car and put 5W-20 oil in my car. My car is supposed to take 5W-30. That's a NO NO for summer driving. I wonder if I can use that against them?

 

It is a good thing you have records because that will help your fight tremendously. I honestly don't know if the 5W-20 is the cause, but it is interesting to see their response when you inform them of what you found.

 

It is important that you get a written explanation as to why the warranty was voided. Keep all of this documentation and file a claim with your state.

 

If all else fails, get a lawyer involved. Most lawyers will give you 15 minutes to explain you claim at no charge before you have to pay a retainer. You can fight and win. I know, because I did.

[ford4v429]

It is a good thing you have records because that will help your fight tremendously. I honestly don't know if the 5W-20 is the cause, but it is interesting to see their response when you inform them of what you found.

 

It is important that you get a written explanation as to why the warranty was voided. Keep all of this documentation and file a claim with your state.

 

If all else fails, get a lawyer involved. Most lawyers will give you 15 minutes to explain you claim at no charge before you have to pay a retainer. You can fight and win. I know, because I did.

 

Boy oh boy...

I'd sure like to see the teardown report on that one- if the thrust bearing failed on a stick car, it wouldnt last much time at all- theres quite a bit of pressure from the throwout bearing when the clutch is pressed...wonder if MAYBE something wasnt assembled just right after replacing the throwout bearing assy...the 5w-20 oops is a feather in your cap for sure!

 

was the throwout making noise before it went in, or did it start leaking hydraulic fluid? just curious.

if it was making noise, the main thrust bearing could have went, but I really didnt think that happened very often...the steeda adjuster you mentioned- those cars are hyd clutch arent they? how does the adjuster work? any way it could be set to 'drag' the throwout bearing(similar to letting your foot ride on the clutch pedal- puts constant pressure on crank thrust bearing)? just wondering, as if so, it would accelerate thrust bearing wear. Even worst case, would expect oil thing at a absolute minimum contributed too...just asking questions you might consider in case they ask.

 

good luck.

 

Sadly though if it was a dealer mistake, Ford really cant do much about it. Dealer is independent business...I really wish Ford could hold them to higher standards though, as Ive had a few bad experiences too.

 

might need a lawyer, but if thinking that way, make sure you can prove anything you did didnt contribute- or it might cost even more in legal fees for even a split judgement...

Edited December 6, 2005 by ford4v429

[OTISFORDSUCKS]

qc e46: Feel free to visit: http://www.otisfordsucks.com Thank you.

Edited December 6, 2005 by OTISFORDSUCKS

[gc_e46]

qc e46: Feel free to visit: http://www.otisfordsucks.com Thank you.

 

Thanks for all your posts, they have been pretty helpful. I'm not exactly sure what the dealer said with regards to the repairs. All I know is what my father told me, darn it I should have been more on top of this but I was not too concerned at the time because they told us it would be under warranty. The claim has not been voided yet but they are asking for oil change records. I fear that if I give them to the dealer they will pick out any little deficiency to make us pay for this.

 

Don't mean to grab sympathy or anything but my dad just went into the hospital today because he felt weak and started shivering all of a sudden. I suspect it was triggered due to all the stress this has caused him.

 

Thanks Ford for all you have done. Quality is Job 1 eh? Well then Job 2 must be screwing the customer.

[Paul Selby]

Boy oh boy...

I'd sure like to see the teardown report on that one- if the thrust bearing failed on a stick car, it wouldnt last much time at all- theres quite a bit of pressure from the throwout bearing when the clutch is pressed...wonder if MAYBE something wasnt assembled just right after replacing the throwout bearing assy...the 5w-20 oops is a feather in your cap for sure!

 

was the throwout making noise before it went in, or did it start leaking hydraulic fluid? just curious.

if it was making noise, the main thrust bearing could have went, but I really didnt think that happened very often...the steeda adjuster you mentioned- those cars are hyd clutch arent they? how does the adjuster work? any way it could be set to 'drag' the throwout bearing(similar to letting your foot ride on the clutch pedal- puts constant pressure on crank thrust bearing)? just wondering, as if so, it would accelerate thrust bearing wear. Even worst case, would expect oil thing at a absolute minimum contributed too...just asking questions you might consider in case they ask.

 

good luck.

 

Sadly though if it was a dealer mistake, Ford really cant do much about it. Dealer is independent business...I really wish Ford could hold them to higher standards though, as Ive had a few bad experiences too.

 

might need a lawyer, but if thinking that way, make sure you can prove anything you did didnt contribute- or it might cost even more in legal fees for even a split judgement...

 

 

They didn't start hydraulic clutches on Mustangs until the '05's.

I had to replace 2 throw-out bearings on my '88 Mustang before 20,000mi due to the aluminum bearing retainer (part the bearing rides on) used on the T5 trans. When the 2nd throw out bearing went bad I replaced the aluminum bearing retainer with a steel one and never had another bearing go bad.

 

I have also had some bad dealer experiences with Ford and Toyota, dropping my car at a dealer feels like dropping my son off with Michael Jackson. IMHO Fords 1-800 line isn't worth shit.

[F250]

While you are looking up TSBs check out the one that states the new 5w20 oil is approved for use in older 4.6L engines that originally specified 5w30. The 5w20 oil the dealer used is approved for that engine and it is not an issue.

 

You took the vehicle to the dealer for an abnormal noise thinking the release bearing TSB would fix the problem, they replaced it and the noise remained. The dealer then asked for diagnostic time to determine the cause of the noise. Did you approve the diagnostic time? What was determined to be the cause of the noise? Is it some kind of internal engine failure?

 

Ford is not trying to screw your family. Are you trying to screw Ford?

 

The extended service contract company (in this case apparently Ford ESP) has every right to ask for maintenance records. That is with any brand of service contract, no news there. If the maintenance had been done at the same dealership the records are kept in their computer, it is no problem if you do your own oil changes but you are responsable for keeping accurate records of maintenance while the vehicle is under the service contract.

 

Since I'm sure you do good work with quality parts I'm sure you have accurate records with parts purchase reciepts for the vehicle's maintenance...right?

 

So what's the problem? Give them the maintenance records (with parts reciepts) and have the contract cover the repair.

[ebritt]

Three months passed as they tried to make the car work after they installed the engine. Unfortunately, they could not. NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO PLACE THE BLAME ON US!!! They are trying to say that we caused the problem because we did our own oil changes. That is a load of crap. If that was a problem, why didn't they say something before they "tried" to do all this work on the car???? It's like, telling me I won a free vacation and three months later saying, "Oh, by the way, you owe us $10,000." I think they are back peddling and trying to transfer the blame of a problem they created.

 

YOU CHANGED YOUR OWN OIL??? How dare you?! Don't you realize what you what you have done?!?!? The sun and moon could collide if you change your own oil! DONT DO IT AGAIN ...or a large smelly vagrant will come to your house and roll his filth into your Naugahyde furniture!!!

 

SO THERE

NYA!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[F250]

Your credibility just left.

 

Sounds like you have bigger problems than just your car. Seek help.

Edited December 7, 2005 by F250

[01FOCI]

Your credibility just left.

 

Sounds like you have bigger problems than just your car. Seek help.

 

 

:lol: I agree!

[gc_e46]

I'm going into see the Service Advisor and Service Manager on Wednesday. I just want to understand why they would do a ton of work on my car, say it will be covered by warranty and three months later change their tune and ask for service records. The problem was with the engine, shouldn't they check the records first BEFORE they start any work? It even says on the Extended Service Plan that they may need to see maintanence records BEFORE they start any repairs. My service records are fine in my eyes, off a week or so in some cases... I'm afraid they'll use the little discrepancies to screw us. I don't get this talk about credibility... where is the credibility in what they have done?

[robertlane]

It's not unusual to ask for additional paper work. As long as you have it, you should not have any problems.

[gc_e46]

Well, I saw the Fixed Operations Manager (really good guy) at East-Court Ford Lincoln and got the whole scoop. It seems that everything should be fine. Gonna submit my paperwork and things should be completed on my car. I hope that everything goes more smoothly from here. It's been taking FOREVER.

[Mr. KABC]

As soon as you started talking about the effects of "stress" on you and your family as a result of the car problem you lost all credibility.

 

Save that crap for the lawyer. (he might not want to hear it either)

[Undertow]

Well, I saw the Fixed Operations Manager (really good guy) at East-Court Ford Lincoln and got the whole scoop. It seems that everything should be fine. Gonna submit my paperwork and things should be completed on my car. I hope that everything goes more smoothly from here. It's been taking FOREVER.

 

Glad to see our dealers have spent a month dragging another potentially loyal customer through a knot-hole backwards.

 

Can someone explain to me at what point the 5W-20 or 5W-30 oil mentioned in the oil changes would ever contact or affect a throwout bearing?