Ford may give Lincoln a C-Segment compact & small SUV

[LincolnFan]

You may be right, especially with an I-4. However, Audi, with its A-4, plus MB's C-class and the 1 and 3-series BMW suggest that there are people who will pay more than $33K for a C-size. B-size MINI's go for that, and they sell.

 

The C, A4 and 3 are all midsizes, they're MKZ/MKR competition. The 1 series is a C-sized vehicle. I don't know how well the 135i is doing for BMW in the US, but I am almost certain it flopped with it's 40K tag.

 

Like I said, the TF6 should be for people who are stupid enough to shell out over 33 grand for a C-sized vehicle.

[ANTAUS]

Lets take note, it'll probably have to be based of something Ford will be using elsewhere in it's brands. I'm guessing maybe C2. Just something the size of the Volvo S40, 6speed AWD, and one of the Ecoboost I-4s. They'll probably give it and engine that the other platform mates can't have, but doubt it'll be anything over 270HP.

[waymondospiff]

My vision for a "worldly C-Segment Lincoln":

 

Mazda RX-8 Chassis (stretched a touch in wheelbase/length/width/track)

 

+

 

Volvo 3.2L Inline-Six (bumped to ~300hp (from 235 current))

 

+

 

6-Speed Manual & 6-Speed Dual-Clutch Automatic (From Volvo, or in-house Ford.)

 

+

 

A completely new Lincoln "top-hat." (Courtesy of Peter Horbury, of course.)

 

Am I dreaming?

 

Dimension - RX8 - 135i - 328i - is250 - C-Class

Length - 174.3" - 171.7" - 178.2" - 180.1" - 182.3"

Width - 69.7" - 68.8" - 71.5" - 70.9" - 69.7"

Height - 52.8" - 55.4" - 55.9" - 56.1" - 56.3"

Wheelbase - 106.4" - 104.7" - 108.7" - 107.5" - 108.7"

F. Track - 58.9" - 58.4" - 59.1" - 60.4" - 60.4"

R. Track - 59.3" - 59.7" - 59.6" - 60.4" - 59.6"

 

The RX-8 is already a spot-on match in dimensions. And "As-Is" the RX-8 has a larger backseat than the is250 & 135i.

 

Far fetched? Or "synergy" waiting to happen?

 

That'd be a hot-rod Lincoln.

 

Scott

[2b2]

hey, Scott

 

except for sourcing a PowerShift/dsg from Getrag and using the 3.5v6 (n/a & EcoBeast), & a bit more stretch (110"wlb, 180"ish ovl) what you got there is my MERCURY-XR6 !!! :D < choplink

[rmc523]

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

Basically they are getting rid of Mercury in order to turn the future Lincoln into what Mercury used to be. Well, actually it is worse than that - they are turning Lincoln into a trim line of a Ford.

 

Hmm, should I buy the $18,000 crackerbox Ford, or the $38,000 crackerbox Lincoln with a little shinola on it? That really builds long term brand equity, but when you are worried about paying the electric bill next year, you do desparate things.

 

How is Lincoln becoming a trim line of Ford? If anything, it's moving away from that. Have you seen the MKT compared to the Flex? They look nothing alike. Same goes for MKS/Taurus. With the next gen, I'm sure the MKZ and Fusion will look nothing alike, and I'd expect completely that we'd see the same thing in a C-segment car.

 

And AFAIK, Mercury is staying, and will be smaller, fuel efficient cars.

 

I think Lincoln shoudl DEFINITELY offer a C-segment vehicle. I just think it shoudl be RWD, and Mercury should offer a FWD vehicle based on the Focus platform. Lincoln needs an IS/3-series fighter. Keeping Lincoln large will only hurt it in the long run. Large no longer equals luxury. Small can be just as luxurious - and far more appealing in the days of $4 gas.

 

Um, I'm pretty sure the MKZ is an IS/3-series fighter. I assume you meant a 1-series fighter. And I agree with you in saying large no longer equals luxury.

 

The other luxury cars sell to some buyers because they are European cars. If Lincoln tries to tell them that they are the same as the European cars, they will fail. American luxury might be a mistake. You don't want to associate Lincoln with being a heavy, big, slow car that does not handle. Lexus is what Lincoln should be aiming at. I think it appeals to the most buyers. Just don't admit it. They should pretend to be something different rather than just copying the best.

 

As you implied, I think a lot of BMW and Mercedes sales are simply that, because they are BMWs and Mercedes'.

 

I am questioning one of your statements though (the underlined one). You say you "don't want to associate Lincoln with being a heavy, big, slow car that does not handle." Yet you then say "Lexus is what Lincoln should be aiming at." Isn't that kinda what Lexus has been for years? By that I mean the average "luxury" car that doesn't handle all that well (I could be wrong, I don't really follow Lexus; I personally despise them, being part of Toyota). They may not necessarily be heavy, but up until recently when Lexus launched the "F" line on the IS, I wouldn't really say Lexus was a great 'handling' example.

 

I do know what you're saying though...that luxury doesn't have to be sporty, it can be a "plain jane" ride (as long as it's not horribly boring) as long as it has all the latest technological goodies, etc.

 

I think there should be 2 versions of the C car, a coupe and a sedan. I am not sure why everybody here wants a V8 in a Focus sized car.. a V6 TF (Isn't that the name for the performance version of EB? or did they change that?), I4 TF and highly tuned I4 for the coupe. The sedan should be more luxury oriented.

 

Ford should bring the computer controlled suspension (forgot the correct name) like in the C1 Focus or so says the manuals for my car. (like the S80 Volvo and BMWs)

 

The I4 TF model fully loaded shouldn't go over 33K, anything more than that is just ridiculous for a C-car.

 

I agree that there should be 2 versions, maybe 3. A sedan and coupe would be the priorities, with a possible convertible (I think another larger convertible would be needed first, though before a C-segment convertible were launched in the Lincoln brand).

 

And I'm pretty sure the V8 engine talk was a severe case of sarcasm. As for the TwinForce name, I personally would like to see that name used on models where the engine's intent was to make the vehicle sporty (sort of being a new "SVT" designation), as opposed to EcoBoost. For all other applications, like in "normal" situations to simply get V8 power with V6 economy, I would use the EcoBoost name.

 

The C, A4 and 3 are all midsizes, they're MKZ/MKR competition. The 1 series is a C-sized vehicle. I don't know how well the 135i is doing for BMW in the US, but I am almost certain it flopped with it's 40K tag.

 

Like I said, the TF6 should be for people who are stupid enough to shell out over 33 grand for a C-sized vehicle.

 

The 1 Series sold 1,190 units for August and has sold 8,617 year to date. I personally see quite a few of them, but living in South Florida may not be the best representation of how they're selling.

 

And I say, as long as a customer is willing to pay $33K for a C-segment vehicle (and of course as long as there is a reasonable number of people who would do so), why not build it?

 

Lets take note, it'll probably have to be based of something Ford will be using elsewhere in it's brands. I'm guessing maybe C2. Just something the size of the Volvo S40, 6speed AWD, and one of the Ecoboost I-4s. They'll probably give it and engine that the other platform mates can't have, but doubt it'll be anything over 270HP.

 

Really, I would be surprised to see it be on anything other than C2 (or will it be C3 when the new Focus comes over?). As you said, though, it'll likely have attributes none of the other C2 variants have.

[2b2]

...Um, I'm pretty sure the MKZ is an IS/3-series fighter. I assume you meant a 1-series fighter. And I agree with you in saying large no longer equals luxury...

 

(re: littlest Lincoln)

...I agree that there should be 2 versions, maybe 3. A sedan and coupe would be the priorities, with a possible convertible (I think another larger convertible would be needed first, though before a C-segment convertible were launched in the Lincoln brand).

 

the MKZ is about the same size as the 5-series, RMC

just like the CTS and the ES from "that other L brand"

...tho I won't voice an opinion on if Any (pairs) of the 4 cars are direct competitors

but will say imho competing directly with any "other L" model is a bit 'beneath' Lincoln (in the case of the IS - literally ....ie Mercury!)

&

Have a strong feeling that the 1st smaller-than-MKZ Lincoln will be the KUGA - with minor styling changes + the bow-wave grille, it will look a LOT like a mini-MKT imho

and fill the role of a new-sized RX (from "that other L brand") ie veryVERY car-like

then

can see the more-different-than-many-think:C2, specifically the Cabrio/hard'vert structure,

shared by Lincoln, the Volvo C70, and the euroFocus

Edited September 15, 2008 by 2b2

[rmc523]

the MKZ is about the same size as the 5-series, RMC

just like the CTS and the ES from "that other L brand"

...tho I won't voice an opinion on if Any (pairs) of the 4 cars are direct competitors

but will say imho competing directly with any "other L" model is a bit 'beneath' Lincoln (in the case of the IS - literally ....ie Mercury!)

&

Have a strong feeling that the 1st smaller-than-MKZ Lincoln will be the KUGA - with minor styling changes + the bow-wave grille, it will look a LOT like a mini-MKT imho

and fill the role of a new-sized RX (from "that other L brand") ie veryVERY car-like

then

can see the more-different-than-many-think:C2, specifically the Cabrio/hard'vert structure,

shared by Lincoln, the Volvo C70, and the euroFocus

 

Is it, I never realized the MKZ is that big, it doesn't seem that big.

 

And I'm sure you're probably right about the Kuga/Lincoln.