2010 Camaro: RS $22,995 / SS $30,995

[Deanh]

I just popped a BONner

stunning....gimme the one sans hood scoops and overdone lower valance...VERY clean.....may steal sales from Caddys up and coming coupe...ANOTHER looker

Edited October 14, 2008 by Deanh

[Ford-150]

hell ill even let them throw a Bow Tie on it and call it a Camaro.....just build it.....it looks so much better than the confused Camaro

[Paul Selby]

If the heavier G8 GXP does the 1/4 in 13.0 with 20 less HP than the Camaro I'm guessing 12.8's @ 109-110 for the Camaro.

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8-gxp.html

The G8 GXP delivers a zero to 60 mph time of about 4.7 seconds, and a quarter-mile time of 13.0 seconds at 108 mph. Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque.

 

I don't understand why the Mustang is still saddled with the 4.6. My lighter, slower "high tech" 310 HP Mach 1 gets worse MPG's than my heavier but faster "Old tech" 6.0 400 HP GTO. I have been a long time Mustang buyer (4 new/1 used) but if Ford doesn't get with it soon I'll be replacing my GTO with a new Camaro when the time comes. I'm normally a Camaro basher but I think the new one looks very good, other than the shit dashboard.

[CurtisH]

Fords Iron modulars are pigs (weight). IIRC they are somewhere around 600lbs for the SOHC versions, and the DOHC ones are around 575. I dont know what an aluminum 3v weighs, but figure around 550 or so which is about the same as a 351C which was all iron and not exactly svelte itself.

 

EDIT - An LS1 weighs about 460 lbs. Which is what an all iron 302 weighed back in the day.

According to the 2006 Ford Performance Parts Catalog, the aluminum 3V in the Mustang weighs 420 lbs dressed.

[chiefstang]

According to the 2006 Ford Performance Parts Catalog, the aluminum 3V in the Mustang weighs 420 lbs dressed.

Is that a long block, short block, or a fully dressed engine?

[TomServo92]

hell ill even let them throw a Bow Tie on it and call it a Camaro.....just build it.....it looks so much better than the confused Camaro

 

I agree. I don't care much for the Camaro but that's nice!

[Sixt9coug]

According to the 2006 Ford Performance Parts Catalog, the aluminum 3V in the Mustang weighs 420 lbs dressed.

 

 

Really? i have a VERY hard time believing that given that the 4.6L is wider than a 460 at the heads. Its not just its weight, but the sheer size of the engine itself. If the DOHC 4.6L weighs 575 (they were all aluminum remember?) , i have a hard time believing the SOHC 3v is 150lbs less fully dressed. All aluminum or not.

[chiefstang]

Really? i have a VERY hard time believing that given that the 4.6L is wider than a 460 at the heads. Its not just its weight, but the sheer size of the engine itself. If the DOHC 4.6L weighs 575 (they were all aluminum remember?) , i have a hard time believing the SOHC 3v is 150lbs less fully dressed. All aluminum or not.

I found it. PN: M-6007-3V46. Fully dressed. Doesn't give me a weight, though. Most of the long blocks are around 420-450lbs. They are steel, but just long blocks. I'm guessing the three valve weighs more...

 

 

Ps It retails for $6,700! Ouch.

Edited October 15, 2008 by chiefstang

[CurtisH]

Really? i have a VERY hard time believing that given that the 4.6L is wider than a 460 at the heads. Its not just its weight, but the sheer size of the engine itself. If the DOHC 4.6L weighs 575 (they were all aluminum remember?) , i have a hard time believing the SOHC 3v is 150lbs less fully dressed. All aluminum or not.

I can only tell you what the catalog says. This is the 2006 Performance Parts catalog. On page 62, it says:

The new 3-valve 4.6L engine in the 2005-06 Mustang weighs only 420 lbs. dressed.

[chiefstang]

I can only tell you what the catalog says. This is the 2006 Performance Parts catalog. On page 62, it says:

The new 3-valve 4.6L engine in the 2005-06 Mustang weighs only 420 lbs. dressed.

No shit. I only have the 2008 catalog, and it doesn't give the weight. Is there a pic of it, and if so, does it have the intake manifold, throttle body, etc.?

[CurtisH]

No shit. I only have the 2008 catalog, and it doesn't give the weight. Is there a pic of it, and if so, does it have the intake manifold, throttle body, etc.?

No, at least not for the 4.6 3V. The page is titled Engine Swap Size Chart. It has pictures of the 460, 351, and the 4.6 4V. These pictures show complete engines. The 4.6 aluminum block only weighs 85 lbs. If I remember, the 4V heads weigh about 50 lbs more each than the 3V heads. That may include the valve train.

 

To get back on topic, the pricing looks pretty good on the Camaro. I suspect Ford will keep the 2010 Mustang price at least a couple of thousand dollars below the Camaro's price.

Edited October 15, 2008 by CurtisH

[Ford-150]

If the heavier G8 GXP does the 1/4 in 13.0 with 20 less HP than the Camaro I'm guessing 12.8's @ 109-110 for the Camaro.

 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8-gxp.html

The G8 GXP delivers a zero to 60 mph time of about 4.7 seconds, and a quarter-mile time of 13.0 seconds at 108 mph. Power comes from a 6.2-liter LS3 small-block V8 engine delivering 402 horsepower and 402 pound-feet of torque.

 

I don't understand why the Mustang is still saddled with the 4.6. My lighter, slower "high tech" 310 HP Mach 1 gets worse MPG's than my heavier but faster "Old tech" 6.0 400 HP GTO. I have been a long time Mustang buyer (4 new/1 used) but if Ford doesn't get with it soon I'll be replacing my GTO with a new Camaro when the time comes. I'm normally a Camaro basher but I think the new one looks very good, other than the shit dashboard.

that is a little generous IMO for the GXP....also the GXP will be rated at 415 each

 

i believe the SS will hit 13.0 and 13.1s but very few will get 12.8s stock

 

im looking at it more of the GTO's #s for the new Camaro

 

but if the G8 GXP is getting those times then screw the Camaro that is just a tad cheaper than a GXP....ill save up for the GXP with its 4 doors and much better looks

 

but i agree about the Mustang....the 5.0 should have been ready....i don't want to hear bullshit....they knew the Camaro was getting at least 400hp for almost 3 years

 

hopefully they bring back the GTO as what i posted in here

Edited October 15, 2008 by Ford-150

[old_fairmont_wagon]

What I wanted from Ford some time ago was simply for them to do the aluminum block treatment for the 5.4L Mod as well and release a Ford Mustang GT350 with a naturally aspirated 350 hp 5.4L V8 under the hood. The 3V heads should be more than capable of pushing that kind of HP. The PI version of the 5.4L in the 09 F-150 is making 310 HP on regular. Just a premium tune and a slightly higher red line (with the relevant breathing modifications) and it would easily make 350 hp. If the 4.6L block itself only weighs 85 Lbs, the 5.4L Aluminum version would have weighed in at around 105 lbs, making the conjectural fully dressed block just shy of 500 lbs. That's not bad for an engine of that size and power output (looking at the 09 F-150's 380 lbs of torque, its not hard to imagine a premium tuned 5.4L 3V making 400 lbs).

 

While that wouldn't have outrun much of anything that's exotic, it would have done quite well in its own right. And, I do believe that the lessons learned from the aluminum 4.6L 3v project would have been readily applied to a possible 5.4L. I just don't understand why it was never tried and yet they blew time and money on semi exotic projects like a short deck V-10 for example.

 

How many people would have purchased a GT350 that stickered for perhaps $29,950 or even $30,950? It would have had a substantial power advantage over the GT without weighing much more than 75 to 100 lbs heavier.

[dave91gt]

Anyone seen the new Motor Trend? I really hate that magazine as they cannot judge a car any better than my 8 year old. But, they claim that the V6 runs bottom 6's 0-60 mph and GM's goal is sub 6's. That is the BASE model. And something else I dont understand. I for one hate IRS on a Mustang. It didnt work on a Cobra (maybe because Ford has trouble with making them last). Why are there some that think the Mustang has to have one to compete? More on my rant. I was at the dragstrip two weeks ago in my 91 solid axle Fox Mustang and there beside me in the staging lanes was a new Challenger. Bright orange and all. I looked over at the 6.1 Hemi badges and really wanted a shot at him. He got bumped one car ahead of me, so I didnt get to race him. Anyway, his best pass that night was 8.8's. That was after several passes. Granted he didnt have anything but street tires, but the mph was below 80 the whole night. Now that doesnt sound much to me like 400+ horsepower. LS1's? There was one. The Mustangs outnumbered everything else. The Mustang will be fine as long as Ford doesnt forget the grassroots racers and people that buy a Mustang as an affordable fun car that we can beat the snot out of on the weekends. That is what makes a Mustang a Mustang IMO. That philosophy worked in the past and that is why the Mustang is still around. I for one cant wait for the Camaro to come out. Competition will breed a better Mustang.

[Anthony]

I was at the dragstrip two weeks ago in my 91 solid axle Fox Mustang and there beside me in the staging lanes was a new Challenger. Bright orange and all. I looked over at the 6.1 Hemi badges and really wanted a shot at him. He got bumped one car ahead of me, so I didnt get to race him. Anyway, his best pass that night was 8.8's. That was after several passes. Granted he didnt have anything but street tires, but the mph was below 80 the whole night. Now that doesnt sound much to me like 400+ horsepower.

 

Sounds like you were watching someone with a 3.5 and 6.1 badges or missing a couple spark plugs. They ain't the fastest things, but they are not that slow.

[02MustangGT]

I doubt the car had a 3.5, if so it would be a 10.8 in the 1/8th. Speaking of slow...geez

 

Anyway, I agree, the 6.1 with a decent driver should run better than 8.8 (maybe) in the 1/8th and will run low 13's in the 1/4 mile.

 

Edit: But by all accounts, the Camaro SS should be quicker in the 1/4 mile than the Challenger SRT, and the Mustang GT (duh), but the GT500 on the other hand...

 

By the way, I can't stand the fact that the V8 Camaro is called the SS. Yeah, yeah, I know, history says the Z28 is the top dog (whether they build it or not), but GM uses the SS moniker like it's going out of style.

Edited October 16, 2008 by 02MustangGT

[Ford-150]

Sounds like you were watching someone with a 3.5 and 6.1 badges or missing a couple spark plugs. They ain't the fastest things, but they are not that slow.

no and 8.8 1/8 mile is completely believable

 

you have to get used to your car before you get those great times

 

ill admit that i got a 9.4 the first time i dragged the G8 on the 1/8(of course the track prep was horrible and im really slow off the line)

 

8.8 is where the G8 GT should be....a SRT-8 should be 8.4-8.5

[goinbroke2]

Anyone seen the new Motor Trend? I really hate that magazine as they cannot judge a car any better than my 8 year old. But, they claim that the V6 runs bottom 6's 0-60 mph and GM's goal is sub 6's. That is the BASE model. And something else I dont understand. I for one hate IRS on a Mustang. It didnt work on a Cobra (maybe because Ford has trouble with making them last). Why are there some that think the Mustang has to have one to compete? More on my rant. I was at the dragstrip two weeks ago in my 91 solid axle Fox Mustang and there beside me in the staging lanes was a new Challenger. Bright orange and all. I looked over at the 6.1 Hemi badges and really wanted a shot at him. He got bumped one car ahead of me, so I didnt get to race him. Anyway, his best pass that night was 8.8's. That was after several passes. Granted he didnt have anything but street tires, but the mph was below 80 the whole night. Now that doesnt sound much to me like 400+ horsepower. LS1's? There was one. The Mustangs outnumbered everything else. The Mustang will be fine as long as Ford doesnt forget the grassroots racers and people that buy a Mustang as an affordable fun car that we can beat the snot out of on the weekends. That is what makes a Mustang a Mustang IMO. That philosophy worked in the past and that is why the Mustang is still around. I for one cant wait for the Camaro to come out. Competition will breed a better Mustang.

 

Dead on! I'm debating building an old front engine dragster with a 300 six just to be different. There are TONS of mustangs at the strips here too. Mustangs then first gen camaro's, chevy ll's, then everything else (dusters,chevelles,etc) There are three that are running sbc drivetrain's. I don't like it but if it wasn't for the inexpensive and light fox body they would be running camaro's or whatever. There are a bunch of fairmonts and rangers too. Fairmonts were lighter than mustangs and the ranger with a 302 should of been a factory option! They work well.

I thought the only engine option for the 08 challenger was the 6.1hemi? A guy in the valley I was talking to got the first one around here and said it's not "quick" but it is extremely fast. He said it was still pulling hard at 260kmh!

 

I'll take a light weight/inexpensive quick mustang over that anyday.

[dave91gt]

This one WAS that slow, that night, at Kanawha Valley Dragway. And, it was a 6.1 bright orange, big wheels and all Challenger. He ran the car all night. The 8.8 is believable due to driver and computer nannies, but the mph (79) is the measure of horsepower. You can launch like total crap, but the mph is consistent with the hp hitting the ground. I have heard magazine reports (cant recall which one) say it runs mid thirteens in the quarter. Not a whole bunch better than a new GT and good driver.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Just an FYI, fairmont wagons are WAY fun. That extra weight over the tail makes hooking up so much easier. Fuel cell in the spare tire compartment filled with some insulation/ballast and away she goes.

[02MustangGT]

I just read that Camaro orders are up to 3,000 after just 3 days. Anyone recall the amount of orders recorded for the 2005 Mustang in the first few days after the order banks opened?

[TomServo92]

I just read that Camaro orders are up to 3,000 after just 3 days. Anyone recall the amount of orders recorded for the 2005 Mustang in the first few days after the order banks opened?

 

This article dated 10/10/2004, states Ford has 25,000 advanced orders for the 2005 Mustang. I don't know when the order banks opened for the '05.

[Deanh]

I just read that Camaro orders are up to 3,000 after just 3 days. Anyone recall the amount of orders recorded for the 2005 Mustang in the first few days after the order banks opened?

#'s typical of the trendy flavor of the month...good for Chebbie....

[LincolnFan]

#'s typical of the trendy flavor of the month...good for Chebbie....

 

Don't you mean Chubbie? Porky? Phat? Heavy? Greasey?

[02MustangGT]

#'s typical of the trendy flavor of the month...good for Chebbie....

 

Yeah, I understand that, just wondering for comparison sake. We all know that the S197 was a huge hit throughout the first model year (or two). I am anxious to see what the sales numbers will be for the big 3 pony/muscle cars for the 2010 model year. My guess is:

Mustang=100k

Camaro=90-100k

Challenger=40k