Pioneer Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Job bank, getting paid when idle, pensions...gotta go. It'll be the only way the automakers will survive. Be lucky they even get health car for that matter. Well, if that's the case, get ready to drive a foreign car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 The reason that Detroit's factory wages are close to Toyota's is an example of the 2007 contract gains. Now that UAW contracts are moving Detroit's assembly costs in the right direction, the lines begin to blurr especially in 2010 when VEBA liability transfers to UAW and two tier wages begin to take hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante hicks Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 In case you didn't read your link, they made more at one Toyota plant due to profit sharing. That isn't exactly relevant to the UAW contracts with GM/Ford/Chrysler. I wonder why that might be. And if you subtract the 6 grand profit sharing from the 60 grand pay, you get the 54 grand UAW average. I think he read the link -- he can just do math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Just what exactly does the union provide? Would employees accept pay+health+401k matching and scrap other benefits in order to save their livelihoods? Should management make a parallel move? Edit: I admit I'm an outsider on this, but I can compare this situation to my ownworkplace (a major hospital system). Our union provides some of the most outrageous benefits! And they give away MY money to politicians! To top it off, at one time we were rewarded simply by years of service, with little regard to quality. Our recent focus on quality only, disregarding longevity, has increased quality and is moving us towards the black. Edited November 16, 2008 by joihan777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC-MAN Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 First off the best thing that can happen to the big three is bankrupcy. That said, I don't think it is an issue of current union pay at all, I think its the huge pension liability that was set up when GM held 60% of the market and sold more Impalas than Dodge sold cars. That is what the Japanese do not have over their heads. Secondly, we have to quit glad handing foreign countries. Just compare what a Toyota cost verse a Chevy here verses Japan. If other countries are going to be protectionist with US automakers, their automakers should be treated the same way in the US. Finally, any bailout should include a clause that says anyone who has even seen the top management offices should be fired and banned from working for other US automakers. But that won't happen. They'll all keep their jobs, or be "fired" with enough parting cash for any 6 of us to live comfortably the rest of our lives. INstead, the govt. will stick a bunch of asinine "green" restrictions on US makers. All of which won't apply to the Asians because they don't belong to the government! :titanic: And on top of that Americans will HATE the "green" cars. 100 years of history proves that. I work in Education, a field the Government has been "helping", "fixing", and "improving" for 60 years. Trust me, YOU DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN THE AUTO BUSINESS!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I work in Education, a field the Government has been "helping", "fixing", and "improving" for 60 years. Trust me, YOU DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN THE AUTO BUSINESS!!!!!!! What makes you think that the auto business is not regulated by the government ! It is probably the most regulated industry in the US ! CARB and EPA wield huge power. They can change their mind year to year on any ruling, just because ! I have seen it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I fail to see how this becomes any partisan issue, but I guess at some point it always gets down to monica under the desk... The issue is the UAW not wanting to make concessions and being an outdated and inefficiency tool. As I understand it and have read on various articles, I believe Toyota pays something around $13-17 an hour, whereas Ford/GM pays around $30+. I dont see how the UAW influence has made Toyota pay more, if anything, they pay much less. Toyota pays their employee's more than "$13-17 an hour" and Ford /GM do not pay $30+ an hour-- your "various articles" are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I guess this means UAW is prepared to go down with the ship. It is kind of hard to read Congress at the moment. My guess is that the lame dicks won't let anything go through, but there is a good chance that the money will come, but not until February. In the mean time, the UAW is about to enter an ugly game of "Chicken" ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 The funny thing is, now that it has come this close, the heads at GM will shortly see that "We've only got 6 more direct deposit payments regardless of (a) whether the company goes under or (B) if Congress throws the cash at us" and they'll likely be tempted to tell the union where to shove it. Kind of funny and ironic, to me (since I work in healthcare now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I work in Education, a field the Government has been "helping", "fixing", and "improving" for 60 years. Trust me, YOU DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT IN THE AUTO BUSINESS!!!!!!! There is no way in hell any level of government could do a better job than Cerberus. we've seen how well Cerberus (which is a very successful company) has fucked up Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 There is no way in hell any level of government could do a better job than Cerberus. we've seen how well Cerberus (which is a very successful company) has fucked up Chrysler. Cerberus didn't have a clue as to how to run an automaker...all they where doing was thinking if they cut, cut, cut they could be come successful and now they have a cancer on their hands they need to get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 And you my friend are a fucking dipshit! Here is a little tip, next time you go around "believing" shit and running your pie hole do a little research. Here is what Toyota pays it's workers: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-...r-first-time-l/ Thank you for playing and have a nice day. Whatever point you had, was totally missed because of your lack of being able to carry a conversation without insulting someone. I put dumpfuck idiots like you, into ignore box and maybe someone will listen to whatever crap it is your wanting to relate a-hole. How do you like them dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalCange Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Whatever point you had, was totally missed because of your lack of being able to carry a conversation without insulting someone. I put dumpfuck idiots like you, into ignore box and maybe someone will listen to whatever crap it is your wanting to relate a-hole. How do you like them dogs You may be right about the sour direction he chose to stick his legit facts up your ass. I agree.. But please, next time you comment on something, do research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Cerberus didn't have a clue as to how to run an automaker...all they where doing was thinking if they cut, cut, cut they could be come successful and now they have a cancer on their hands they need to get rid of. as half-assed as it was/is, it is still more of a plan than any government or government agency would have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 UAW boss looks like the dorkiest nerd, he needs to get out of the SUV glory days and face reality. GM will end up bankrupt and UAW will be history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.